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So the rest of the world was brought down by a lack of real information. No one knew what they were dealing with until they could study it in action, and they got that chance because China allowed it to spread. Unless someone tells me otherwise, China intended to allow it to spread because they were determined not to be dealt this hand alone. It was a form of MAD.
originally posted by: Xtrozero
originally posted by: KKLOCO
Because China has made it pretty clear that they will refuse blame. Where does that leave us?
Pounding sand.
China is in a world of hurt right now. They are coming up on the need to finally pay the piper after decades of faked growth. Companies will leave and move on to the "next" cheap labor pool as they have done so many times in the past. China has lost any credibility for doing quality work that now they are a liability in so many things they have their fingers in.
Add in they want world dominance and that just gets other countries to not only say NO but HELL NO! As companies leave if we add sanctions on top then they don't have much left then to go back to their old ways of total internal economics which will drive them back 30 years in progression.
originally posted by: Jay-morris
Companies will not leave China, yes, you wish that to be the case, but will not happen. Do you know bow many millions of people rely in their products made in China?
China want to take over the world? Yes, China have a horrible track record when it comes to the West. But is it China that has bases all over the world? Is it China that has invaded countries and bringing down governments that led to the deaths of millions of innocent people? Is it China who is arming soldiers in the Yemen war that has led to the deaths of innocent men, women and children? Is it China who has funded terrorist in the past to fight their battles?
The question is why they are there in the first place with production on the other side of the planet. And the reason is because they could get cheap labor that overrides the huge shipping distances/costs. This was when a worker was well under 3 bucks per day, but now a typical worker makes 3 bucks an hour and as China moves into their own middle class as Japan, Korea etc already had done in the past to the same reason of America capitalism that same thing will move on to the next place they can get cheap labor from a country with a lot of poor.
It doesn't matter does it? Every country will have their own agendas, but we are talking business, and China in the last 10 years have been more controlling with foreign businesses and costs have gone way up in everything. One of the reason their quality has dropped off is because they are trying to maintain a cost that is not maintainable, so quality takes a hit in that effort.
I think we can agree that US priorities are different than China's without saying who is right or wrong. With that alone the US will pull back from China and add that business sense dictates they do it to move on to the next cheap labor market.
Japan tried to buy the world back in the 70s on the back of American capitalism.... We left them and went to Taiwan, then on to Korea, then China...then....whoever can give labor at less than 3 bucks per day.
originally posted by: Jay-morris
Sorry, but what is your point here? The west have been using cheap labour from other countries for decades. So what is your point?
Yes every country has their agenda. Every country has done, or does do terrible things. Why do you think we get so much BS fear mongering news aimed at China? Because chances are, they eill be the next super power. Either them or India. And people in the West do not like it.
Went American capitalism leaves China
originally posted by: fomalhaut
a reply to: ignorant_ape
I take back my earlier comment about your ignorance. Seaworthy is trying too hard to cover China's arse. You are correct.
originally posted by: Jay-morris
What, are you saying the only America has capitalism? Next you will be saying America is the
freest country in the world!
China may have peaked, but America us on a downward slide, and it's only a matter of time until the next power hungry country with sociopathic leaders take too spot. Could be China, could be India. One thing is for sure though, this sh#t show will carry on and on, no matter who the biggest super is.
originally posted by: Jay-morris
Not in my life time... America is not on the downward slide...lol If you actually lived here you might even see a huge difference than UK...
What difference from the UK? And please do not say guns!
originally posted by: Xtrozero
originally posted by: Jay-morris
Not in my life time... America is not on the downward slide...lol If you actually lived here you might even see a huge difference than UK...
What difference from the UK? And please do not say guns!
Costco....
I wouldn't know where to start... Just about everything you see as a quality of life we have it so much better. I do admit that since America is HUGE there are places you might not want to live in, but at the end of the day they are not as bad as people assume, but when you have 50 UKs it gives you a lot of breathing room as to where you would like to live and how you would like to live IF that is what you choose to do and all of us make our choices on that. Some people choose poorly, but it is still their choice.
I'm retired military/manager level, single income guy, I'm sure from housing, to cars, to food, to beer, to cost, to entertainment, to schooling for my two kids, to sports, to restaurants, shopping, etc etc. you really can't touch any of it...
BTW I lived in Paris for 4 years and spent a lot of time in the UK/Germany too, also lived in Japan for 5 years and been all over maybe 70 plus countries for comparison.
originally posted by: Jay-morris
Sorry, I fail to understand bow the quality of life is better in America than the UK? I am not saying quality of life is better in the UK, but I am not claiming it is, so please explain how you came to this conclusion?
I kind of did I think
pick 3 or 5 things you see as a big part of your quality of life? A lot of it is we have much more choices than you.
As example.... you are from the UK you might like beer, I like beer, and I have around 300 micro breweries around me, you might say I like only one beer, GREAT!, but what if you didn't? I have unlimited choices...
Living all over I really like my central air in my house that has two big ACs and 2 heaters in a HEPA filter system, also one could take a shower for an hour and not run out of hot water.
you might reply I like my small flat and that I need to use heavy blankets in the winter and hope for a cool breeze in the summer... I could do that too, if I wanted to, but then I could keep my house at XX degrees 365 days a year too.
Its really comes down to choices and cost of those choices.
originally posted by: Jay-morris
You do realise that quality of life is different from person to person right?
Are you serious? This is pretty much standards in many countries, so what the hell are you talking about?
Everything you have said here is standard in the UK. Obviously you have never been to the UK!
I did basically explain that too, but in the end it is the number of choices one might have and what choices are available and affordable. If you feel the top quality of life is a mud hut and one goat, I will not argue with you if that is what you think, as example.
Actually it isn't... Do you have central air in your house or wall units?
Yep must be I never been there, you win...lol geez...
I'm really not looking to do a tit for tat. As I said it is hard to describe to a person who may only know one way of life. I have lived in you neck of the woods and know it well, so you would need to live here where I live to really understand what I mean....You know what you know and the same with me... Hard to debate what you don't know.
originally posted by: Jay-morris
You are not coming out of this looking good my friend. You basically said you have better quality of life there, when you have absolutly no clue about the quality of life in the UK.
No we do not need it because of the climate in the UK. China has air conditioning in a lot of flats and houses. Does that mean quality of life is better in China?
We have the National health service in the UK. Does that mean quality of life is better in the UK because if I have an accident, or illness, I do not have to pay hospital bills?
I'm not going to argue with you as I said it is hard to explain something that you have not experienced. I can say I can go into my local pub and see 100 beers on tap, I can go down the street into another one and see 100 more but different from the last and pay 4 pounds for 16 oz glass. You say we have beer too, I have seen a pub with a lot of taps, but you just can not really vision that I'm talking about.
I do not want to act like I'm bragging as to your house/flat is like to mine, but unless that Chinese is well over 400 sq mt most likely not...Why do I have a huge house? Choice and affordability, those two things IS a quality of life right there...
Two years ago I had surgery across my brain barrier and was out of work for 3 months with a nurse that saw me twice a week as I was on a PIC line dumping heavy antibiotics into my system. I didn't lose a penny in pay and the cost of 250k was a cost of zero to me so I'm not sure what you are talking about? Also, after being on the antibiotics for months I asked the doctor what can I do, and he said we can go in and take it out. I was like OK lets do it, so when can we get it done. This was a Tuesday and he said, how is Thursday afternoon work for you.
This started as me saying life was different and you jump on that asking what is different? And I have said right at the start it is hard to explain unless you been in both places as my example with just beer as simple as that is might be something you just need to experience as to what I mean.
I can say something like I buy my beef by the half cow that is corn/grass fed and pay under 6 pounds a kilo for top quality beef. I could eat 2 inch steaks every night on that cost if I wanted to, and you would say we have beef too, so I just do not think you would understand my point.
This is why a tit for tat will not work as there is nothing I can say that you would get a good picture what what I mean.
originally posted by: Xtrozero
a reply to: Jay-morris
I'll keep it simple... I could not afford my quality of life in the UK, and I would also not have the choices in many things that I have here in America if I lived in the UK.