Anti-Catholicism

mikromarius, you are accusing me of things that clearly apply to yourself, another indication that you are blinded.
Your interpretation of bible is really funny, you sound like someone who got bible first day in his life (God didn't give you the gift of Holy Spirit, knowledge because of your pride) and now thinks he knows everything, it makes me laugh, but then again, I feel sorry for you.

BTW, as for angels - noone is praying to angels except asking archangel Michael to protect us which is not like praying to God.

Let me clear you up prayers thing.. all prayers go to God, it's just matter through who they are sent..

And now you add cowardness to your trailer. Congratulations, you've just put another stone to your burden. Cowards aren't allowed in to God's kingdom, I thought you knew that. Fear God. That way you don't bother him too much, and he'll love you even more, and in the end you'll cry Abba! Daddy! I love Thee!!!

As for this - no comment, you have exposed yourself. These words surely do not come from someone who knows truth about God. I suggest you talk to someone to pray above you, you are not well my friend.

And even saints pray only when they live. Among those prayers are the prayers Frans of Asissi prayed in the spirit while he lived. Now he's dust and his soul I believe is with God where he awaits the ressurrection and the judgement.

He is not dead, only his body died.
Jesus said when you die (if you deserved it) you go to God's kingdom. Not just waiting final judgement.
Your interpretation of these matters is very limited I suggest you get on your knees and pray for Holy Spirit and truth.

[Edited on 14-7-2003 by Megaquad]

Mt 23:9
And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

This means that you must not call anyone on earth Father of Jesus, the Creator. Priests and pope are not reffered to Father like heavenly Father, but as a symbol of honour for their serving to God on Earth.

Otherwise this would mean you cannot call your biological father "father".

"Honour thy father and thy mother."

2 Kg.2:12
"And Elisha saw it, and he cried, My father, my father."

You have once again demonstrated error in your theories by taking bible literally.

Mt 25:45
"He will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me'

Jesus is in everyone, and Jesus is in Father.

Just a reminder against your theory that only by only insane studying of history of these matters one can know truth:
Mt 11:25
"I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children."

[Edited on 14-7-2003 by Megaquad]

Maybe the negative feelings towards catholicism is due to how it is forced on everyone. There are missions all over the world pushing casholicism on people that want nothing to do with it. I am agnostic, although i was raised catholic, so I have seen both sides. I feel religion tried to explain too many of this world's mysteries with explanations you cant question. Religion in general has hampered our quest for knowledge for too long. This is all my opinion, I apologize to those of you I offend.

Originally posted by Tyriffic
Helen,
I have a question for you.

What is your opinion of Vatican 2 and the ecumenical efforts of John Paul??

The ecumenical efforts of John Paul and many other leaders of Religious denominations within the World Council of Churches..is not real effort because what they are tring to do is in fact all wrong.
The World Council of Churches is trying to bring a false peace to the world because it is a body made up of many religious demoninations and there cannot be many truths but only one.
You can only have one God......not many gods ..
God has not changed nor will He change to suit the modernization of the people.
In 1054 the Great Schism happened between the East and the West....there were changes made to the Creed and many others .....and so the east and the west broke away from each other....(this is documented fact of what happened in the schism)
There is good and bad within all religions But there can only be one truth not many.
This is way too long to go into but it is there in History of the church if one wants to know .
World Council of Churches sounds and looks good......but it is a false way to bring about truth because it will also bring about the Antichrist.....
There is prophecy that sais that only a small church(people) will remain with the truth as was in the early century of Christianity.
The World Council of Churches ,the U.N and the E.U are all there to bring about a One World Order.....that will seem good to the people and please the people only....it does not make it right though.
Within the Orthodox church(old calander julian )there has not been any new or modern changes made to the teachings of the Apostles as they were handed down by Jesus Christ.
Although they are considered 'old fashioned' they are not there to suit the people but there for you soul.....small changes leads to bigger changes as has been proven within the Christian Churches.
God is the same as He was yesterday and He has not changed but people want changes because it suits them better for their own personal satisfaction....to make them feel more comfortable in their surroundings.
A change may seem good but does it benefit you in the end?
The priests are there for our benefit (as Jesus Christ appointed them to teach us the truth and lead us to rightous lives).....what they do is their sin and they will be judged as we will be ....but to follow a religion just because it suits us and it is comfortable for us does not mean that it will get us to heaven.....
The struggle to attain rightous lives is within ourselves....we have to make the judgement for ouselves ....to look at our own lives and know that it is a 'spiritual warfare' we are dealing with....If our souls are full of condemning one another then we are basically the same as those that condems us.....first we look at our own lives and fix that and then try to imitate the life of rightousness before we go condemning others........Priests are human too and they have no special power over us.....they are only there to teach us right from wrong......but if they are wrong in their teachings....we dont stay there,we look for the truth that will benefit our souls and not our bodies.

It is easier for me to write this then to actually follow the rightous path......I am no exception but if one knows the truth then one can try to fix the wrong doings and deal with it.....the whole process is to keep on getting up when one falls.....never give up to knowing the truth and doing good....
We all have our faults and knowing them is good because then we can deal with them by asking God for help.....if we give up then it is our choice to do that and it will not get us any where.....
Like Jesus Christ said He came to help the sinners and it is our choice to what path we choose .......the long and narrow(which is the hard path) or the wide and short path ,which is easier to follow ......everyone makes mistakes in life .Whether it is big or small it can be fixed and nothing please God then to ask Him for help.....it is a sign of Humility ..
Pride is what made Judas Iscariot commit suicide.....he took the easy way out........while the Apostle Peter denied Jesus Christ three times as Jesus said he would......Although Peter denied Him 3 times he asked for forgiveness ....and tradition sais that every time he heard a cock(ok, rooster!) crow he fell on his knees and cried...The ancient traditional teaching is still preserved ,that the eyes of the Apostle Peter were red from frequent weeping (St Clement a Disciple of Peter )..

So any efforts to change the true teachings of the Apostles is not good because what can it benefit you if you gain the whole world and lose your soul.


[Edited on 7/15/2003 by helen670]

[Edited on 7/15/2003 by helen670]

There's a double standard going on in the world these days.

Muslims blow up people who aren't muslim, make laws against non-muslims and it is "ohhh no poor muslims".

Catholics...the last crime they truly did against humanity was 500 years ago...OH NO CATHOLICS BURN THEM ALL!!!!!

By Helen,

There is prophecy that sais that only a small church(people) will remain with the truth as was in the early century of Christianity.
The World Council of Churches ,the U.N and the E.U are all there to bring about a One World Order.....that will seem good to the people and please the people only....it does not make it right though.
Within the Orthodox church(old calander julian )there has not been any new or modern changes made to the teachings of the Apostles as they were handed down by Jesus Christ.
Although they are considered 'old fashioned' they are not there to suit the people but there for you soul.....small changes leads to bigger changes as has been proven within the Christian Churches.
God is the same as He was yesterday and He has not changed but people want changes because it suits them better for their own personal satisfaction....to make them feel more comfortable in their surroundings.
A change may seem good but does it benefit you in the end?

So I gather you disagree with the effort of Vat2 and the ecumenical blasphemy??

Thanks for responding!!

Originally posted by FreeMason
There's a double standard going on in the world these days.

Muslims blow up people who aren't muslim, make laws against non-muslims and it is "ohhh no poor muslims".

Catholics...the last crime they truly did against humanity was 500 years ago...OH NO CATHOLICS BURN THEM ALL!!!!!

Well, we've about exhausted the Anti-this and that threads.......!!

Originally posted by who
Maybe the negative feelings towards catholicism is due to how it is forced on everyone. There are missions all over the world pushing casholicism on people that want nothing to do with it. I am agnostic, although i was raised catholic, so I have seen both sides. I feel religion tried to explain too many of this world's mysteries with explanations you cant question. Religion in general has hampered our quest for knowledge for too long. This is all my opinion, I apologize to those of you I offend.

Hi who.....
You say you are Agnostic....does that mean you are a stranger to God?
What both sides have you known?
Have you truly wanted to seek the truth?
Or have you just taken in whatever was taught to you from an early age?
If you truly want to find the truth then you should never give that up....

When Jesus Christ took flesh and became man He did so for the people that wanted the truth and to conquer death.........those that truly wanted the truth found it...but those that thought they knew it all lost the truth.
To give up because of peoples ideas and new theories of our existence is not going to help you find the answer.....you have to want to make the sacrifice on your own..you have to truly want to know it........and never stop the searching!

Originally posted by who
Maybe the negative feelings towards catholicism is due to how it is forced on everyone. There are missions all over the world pushing casholicism on people that want nothing to do with it. I am agnostic, although i was raised catholic, so I have seen both sides. I feel religion tried to explain too many of this world's mysteries with explanations you cant question. Religion in general has hampered our quest for knowledge for too long. This is all my opinion, I apologize to those of you I offend.

In my country at least, I dont know of, nor herd of the catholic parish actively trying to recruit new people to the faith. Very rarely do I even see the service (mass) time's advertised in the paper. They do not go door knocking, like the Jehova witnesses. But they are heavely active in communities, donating, fundrasing and organising differrent charities and support groups. But they do not tend to push the faith upon people. If anything can be said about catholics, is that they are very tribal. Doing business and meeting with people within their parish.

Many of the posts that I have read, are to put it simply, show the people lack any real understanding of the faith, wanting only to leave their mark and put in there two cents worth.

In conclusion I still feel that I am right when I said the the anti-catholic mood is present only because of peoples ignorance, and the fashonable trend of associating the Church with world wide conspricy.

It's strange how the Law of the bible, based on it's own wisdom and the love of God, that is a tool for justification and healing shall be used as a tool to judge and front the justification of rebelling against it. The bible can't be used in eternity to justify making images of the divine. It is the very basic in the understanding of God that he cannot be visualised. God has a strange apearing that cannot be pictured or formed by the hands of mortal men. It is folly. God is invisible. Why do you love the dead. Love God, love them all.

Let me give you a lesson in love:
When Jesus comes back he has his own appearance. The King comes back to the place where his family killed him. And now the believers of that has made themselves an image of him. An image that is on every believer's mind. He has many different appearances, but all seem to hold on to certain caracteristics, as if the priests have agreed on that he cannot change his scull or something. I can tell you right out: That guy ain't Jesus!

So why do you try to hurt him?

(And I will not say sorry if this one offends you)

Blessings,
Mikromarius

Originally posted by mikromarius
It's strange how the Law of the bible, based on it's own wisdom and the love of God, that is a tool for justification and healing shall be used as a tool to judge and front the justification of rebelling against it. The bible can't be used in eternity to justify making images of the divine. It is the very basic in the understanding of God that he cannot be visualised. God has a strange apearing that cannot be pictured or formed by the hands of mortal men. It is folly. God is invisible. Why do you love the dead. Love God, love them all.

Let me give you a lesson in love:
When Jesus comes back he has his own appearance. The King comes back to the place where his family killed him. And now the believers of that has made themselves an image of him. An image that is on every believer's mind. He has many different appearances, but all seem to hold on to certain caracteristics, as if the priests have agreed on that he cannot change his scull or something. I can tell you right out: That guy ain't Jesus!

So why do you try to hurt him?

(And I will not say sorry if this one offends you)

Blessings,
Mikromarius

I'm having trouble understanding what this has to do with this thread, and what you are trying to say.

You sure you posted in the right thread?

Originally posted by Maddas
I'm having trouble understanding what this has to do with this thread, and what you are trying to say.

You sure you posted in the right thread?

Eeehh.... Yes

Catholics are pathetic, they are protesting against God, and have in all ages been killing or chasing away them who protest against them. God has a name for the Stockholm syndrom of the ages: Roman Catholicism. Wake up!

Blessings,
Mikromarius

mikromarius lets make a bet, when we come to the other world we will know which one of us was true. (which I know its me-because you are nothing but a heretic without arguments)
Anyway, if I am right you will do something for me and opposite when we get there, ok?

What do you say?

Originally posted by Megaquad
mikromarius lets make a bet, when we come to the other world we will know which one of us was true. (which I know its me-because you are nothing but a heretic without arguments)
Anyway, if I am right you will do something for me and opposite when we get there, ok?

What do you say?

Something tells me I don't have to bother you in Heaven. First you show me off like I was a dragon then you want to assure yourself that your ego serves you with my favour in Heaven. Pathetic, cowardous, catholic and spiritually very immature. If you come to hell I must serve you and if we come to heaven you have to serve me? Is that what you're getting at? Those Jedi tricks don't work on me, padawan. I don't do bets. Bets are for satans and fools.

Blessings,
Mikromarius

Don't tell me about spiritualy immature, you are the one who interprets bible like a non-christian, without spirit and literally.

Just a small note about "worshipping" statues, icons etc.

Jesus instructed st. Faustina how he wants his picture to be drawn, and he said that he want people to worship him through that picture.

But of course, we all know that st. Faustina was influenced by satan, unlike you.

Also, nobody is worshipping image, but Jesus! Even children in kindergarden could figure that. Icons, statues etc. only help christians to visualize them, is it so hard to understand?

They stand proudly before their tower that reaches up to Heaven saying "we have made it" and about the beast that lives in their city they say: "It is a god". They see the writings on the wall, but can't understand what it says. They serve their food for the sons of God saying: "Look they eat it". They erect their throne above emperors and kings saying "I am here in God's place".

Woe, how you will be cut down to the ground. But not with God's hands. By the hands of her lovers her shamelessness will be reveiled. Man may hide and man may forget, but God will never close his eyes for the sins that kill our prophets and the least among our brothers. If only your images and statues looked like the ones they represent, you would perhaps find a little mercy for what you have done and still are doing.

You say all of your daughters are made of you and since they have kept the jewels they inherited from you, you use them as a means to justify your own vanity. It is a mother's responcibility to raise her children right, not a child's fault that she follows in her mother's footsteps. When the mother is a whore and she fights her critics by saying her children has become whores aswell, her tower falls like a card house, the writing on the wall is made understandable and all the rest can be rolled together like book.

Blessings,
Mikromarius

MQ,

How can you ask Michael to protect you if everyone else does too? Angels are not omnipresent.
And he probably has better things to do than hang with humans anyways.

Thoughts,
Tassadar

Originally posted by Tassadar
MQ,

How can you ask Michael to protect you if everyone else does too? Angels are not omnipresent.
And he probably has better things to do than hang with humans anyways.

Thoughts,
Tassadar

I am not expecting Michael to come down himself, I am expecting him to order some angels to help me out.
I can also ask God directly, but archangel Michael sure has powers as he is chief of God's army and he, after those above him and God determines who gets help not angels lower in hierarchy.

mikromarius: I will not further struggle with your demons, pray, pray for truth because there will be little of those who remained faithfull until the end because deceivings of satan are strong, as he is superior and smarter being than humans.

You must accept to yourself there is just a *possibility* you are being deceived. Just as I accepted there is possibility yours is true, but I consulted literature and what I know and determined it to be completely false.

[Edited on 15-7-2003 by Megaquad]

Well, I originally started this thread with the intent of trying to guage other peoples feelings as to why so many people in the western world enjoy dispariging Catholics.

It seems to me that I have yet to find a rational reason. Most of the anit-Cartholics here range from those who gently and respectfully disagree with Catholic dogma and tradition, to those who seem to hate us blindly for one reason or another. One of the original things I said was how the Church had never taught me to hate other religions. My knowledge of them is somewhat limited; I've had to research them to know more.

I find it strange that there are so many anti-Catholics out there armed with reems of so-called facts and proof that we are wrong about everything. It only reinforces by belief (also learned through first-hand experience) that many main-stream protestant religions either openly or secretly encourage Catholic-bashing.

I don't give a crap about what was decided 1,000 years ago, or who did what to who in the 1700's, or what Jesus really meant when he said this or that. I think too many people are losing the message in their attempts to interpret it.

I will say this: If any of you out there think that YOU know what God wants or thinks right this very instant.....you are an arrogant, pompous fool. God can change His mind. He has done so in the past. His influence can be swayed, the Bible tells us so. Who is to say what He thinks and feels right now? You?

If you think you can read the words in the Bible and then tell me "God meant for us to do this or that......." you are also an arrogant, pompous fool. The bible is not an instruction manual on how to assemble and operate a good christian. It is a road map, sometimes badly drawn, on how to get from one place (here) to another place (God's grace). Read it like stereo instructions and you are bound to get misassembled.

The true nature of God is a complete mystery. He has revealed his existance to us, and has shown us (both directly and indirectly) the way we should live our lives if we are to obtain his grace. He provided us with his Son so that His life would be an example of how our lives should and could be led.

The message the Jesus brought us is thus: Love your neighbor, forgive your enemies, be righteous in the face of wickedness, and believe in the Lord. It is a simple message. One that can be followed in the guise of many religions and faiths, including Jews and Muslims.

To all you haters, I hope you change your ways. Our church teaches us to love you, despite your un-christian ways and beliefs about us. Our methods and traditions may seem strange to you, but we have been doing it this way for centuries before the concept of your ways were even inspired. You will not change us.

In my hometown there is one Catholic parish and about a dozen protestant churches. Over the years I have seen the protestant churches change hands and denominations countless times (except the Presbyterian church), and I have wondered "do protestant people change their religions/sects as often as these churches change ownership"? When they get sick of one pastor/set of ideals do they jump ship and start going elsewhere? My in-laws have practiced in an "Assemblies of God" church, a "Baptist" church, and now they go to a "Church of God".

Being Catholic at least provides me with a sense of stability, familiarity and unity that I, quite frankly, do not see in the protestant world (with the Church of England and the Mormons maybe being the sole exceptions).

Bash away. It will not bother me. And I wont waste my breath criticizing the finer points of your faith. Its enough for me to know that I am part of a family who cares about me (and yes, our family has it share of problems). Our church will remain solid, like the Rock on which it was founded, while others erode away or wither on the vine as time marches on.

Jesus once said "Blessed are you when men revile you and persecute you and utter all kinds of evil against you falsely on my account".

I thank Him for that blessing.

Originally posted by Megaquad
Don't tell me about spiritualy immature, you are the one who interprets bible like a non-christian, without spirit and literally.

-- Like a non-Catholic -- thank God!

Just a small note about "worshipping" statues, icons etc.

Jesus instructed st. Faustina how he wants his picture to be drawn, and he said that he want people to worship him through that picture.

Yeah right! How does his hair look like? Did he have long hair? How can he be the highest priest in heaven when he has long hair? I believe the person on your image is in family with Pinoccio. Jesus has short, dark hair and he does not resemble any of your images, but I once saw an image of Peter that looked a bit like him.

But of course, we all know that st. Faustina was influenced by satan, unlike you.

Yeah, right!

Also, nobody is worshipping image, but Jesus! Even children in kindergarden could figure that. Icons, statues etc. only help christians to visualize them, is it so hard to understand?

I don't care what you do with them, it's folly, get rid of them, even a grown up catholic should understand that. In most cases your image is an image of Mammon. Read what the word says: I con. Those images play tricks on you and has probably made the satans laugh more times than we could possibly imagine.

Luke 16:19�There was a certain rich man, which was clothed in purple and fine linen, and fared sumptuously every day: 20�And there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, which was laid at his gate, full of sores, 21�And desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man's table: moreover the dogs came and licked his sores. 22�And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; 23�And in hades he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. 24�And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame. 25�But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented. 26�And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence. 27�Then he said, I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house: 28�For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment. 29�Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them. 30�And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent. 31�And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

...and neither could they be convinced by Mikromarius.

Blessings,
Mikromarius