Anti-Catholicism

Megaquad. Your an intelligent individual. You have a founded deep belief in God and your religion. In saying thus, I am not going to go into this with you here on a public forum. It will amount to nothing constructive to this thread.

You must ultimately follow your beliefs and your heart. I trust in time, God will reveal to you what He certainly revealed to me.

Again, I condemn not the members nor the people of the Catholic church. I condemn the system, and what it mis-represents.

I will carry this topic nor this discussion no further out of respect for those who feel otherwise and that includes you Mega. I will hope that you and others will respect this. May God bless you and may His Truths be made manifest in you and all of us....for it is His Word that will indeed set you free.

regards
seekerof

Originally posted by Megaquad
You are full of pride and false confidence in your false theories, God surely wont reveal himself to such people.

Perhaps that is why I have met both Jesus and Mother Mary personally? And perhaps that is why he has allowed me to have all his stigmas except one on my body (I'm not dead yet, so he'll have plenty of time with the last one). The rest I won't tell you, for you have not shown yourself worthy.

My only pride is Jesus of Nazareth. I promise you there isn't much to be proud of in my life except that which has to do with my king.

Remember God hates nothing more than pride and Lucifer fell down because of it.

....and exactly where in the bible did you read that? I'll tell you: You have read in a poorly translated bible written in the RC tradition that Lucifer fell in Isaiah 14:12 "How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!" KJV.

Well the original Hebrew makes no mention of anyone called Lucifer here. Something that isn't very strange since the Greeko-Roman god of the Morning Star wasn't even invented at the time. However we hear about a mysterious name Heylel which is a spiritual name of the kingship of (ancient) Babylon or simply a wise way to put the Babylonians' trust in astrology in vain -- it points to the morningstar of the east (morning), the king of the east/Babylon, how his astrological idolised star fell.

Psalm 31:23
Love the LORD, all his saints! The LORD preserves the faithful, but the proud he pays back in full."

Catholics are not 'worshipping' saints but full of love and respect to them because they avoided sin and became holy, and also asking them to pray for us, because their prayers are very powerful in front of God.

Like most Catholics you read the Bible like Satan does. "Love the Lord, all his saints" means that all the holy ones shall love the Lord, not that you shall worship saints by praying to them. You are not allowed to pray to dead humans. There are terrible penalties for such horrible sins (so I suggest that you get down on your knees and pray to God for forgiveness, and try to mention the name of Jesus in the end, it helps every time).

Also, I think you have trouble with definition of statues and 'idols' with such matters, let it be clear God's saints are surely not idols.

Some people have posters of their favorite musicians, sport players etc., and catholics have icons of saints because they want to please God like those saints did, they want to live like they did, and they want to ask saints to pray for them to God.

Also, you fail to understand that you can't take everything in bible literally, it takes simpleness and Holy Spirit to decode some parables and sentences in bible.

Exodus 20:3�Thou shalt have no other gods before me. 4�Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: 5�Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; 6�And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

Exactly what was it you didn't understand here?

Who are you to determine that Fransiscans are only valid order in Catholic church? Very absurd.
Perhaps the problem is within you and you are the one deceived.

That is my personal opinion based on Spirit, Love and hard studying.

As for allowing priests to marry read this:

1 Cor 7:32
I would like you to be free from concern. An unmarried man is concerned about the Lord's affairs--how he can please the Lord. But a married man is concerned about the affairs of this world--how he can please his wife--and his interests are divided.
Read bottom of my post about old testament.

Well try this one:
Peter was married:
Matthew 8:14 And when Jesus was come into Peter's house, he saw his wife's mother laid, and sick of a fever.

Peter was given power over the Ecclesia:
Mt 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church (Ecclesia); and the gates of hell (Hades) shall not prevail against it.

Now how can Jesus support a doctrine which excludes the foundation of his elect?

...

My point is, you can't change canon like that because it was made backed up with evidences and led by Holy Spirit.

In your wildest dreams perhaps. The reason there are four gospels and not one was that some Spanish guy loved the number four! How is that for Spirit? As I have found, the church hasn't done much but to persue those who are led by the Spirit and underpay artists to make an image of them a houndred years later.

Originally posted by mikromarius
Jesus never promised the church anything.

Matthew 16:18
And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it.

John 14:16
And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Counselor to be with you forever-- the Spirit of truth. The world cannot accept him, because it neither sees him nor knows him. But you know him, for he lives with you and will be in you.

It is obviously that God wants that church exists and serves him for his people. (Jesus told Peter: feed my lambs) Because of Spirit of truth, church cannot make such mistakes as you described.

Go to the source, the Greek and see if you find the word kyrios which is the word church derives from. See? It is not mentioned at all, but another word is there that has been "translated" into church: ECCLESIA which means the chosen or the elect, the congregation. In the time when Peter walked with Jesus, all of them were Jews. God chooses his elect, not the pope, he kills them!

It's ironic you have made Jesus into a liar.

It's fun to see you drown in you own lies and vomit

You are exaggerating, sorry if you misunderstood but I never said that anything in old testament became obsolete. I am saying this:

Matthew 5:43
"You have heard that it was said, 'Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.' But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you that you may be sons of your Father in heaven."

Now is 'Love your neighbor and hate your enemy' a law in your mind? No it's wisdom. And Jesus was wiser than Moses, not strange that he modified the wisdom a little.

Old testament was not always peaceful to enemies of God's people, Jesus assured that we love our enemies.
Jesus opened new era with his sacrifice, this is kind of change I am talking about, he fulfilled many old testament prophecies now we don't have to wait for those to happen, again I am not talking about making old testament obsolete!

You still amaze me! So the ROMAN Catholic/Universalist Church/Kyrios has loved her enemies in your world? Read a little history of how the Catholic Church has LOVED her enemies: By boiling, burning, drowning, slaughtering, bleeding, well I get

Matthew 22:36
"Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?" Jesus replied: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."

Worse than a crown on a fool's head is the borrowed words of wisdom in his mouth!

This one goes out to the demon who made you say I said Jesus was a liar:

Blessings,
Mikromarius

Originally posted by Seekerof
I will carry this topic nor this discussion no further out of respect for those who feel otherwise and that includes you Mega. I will hope that you and others will respect this. May God bless you and may His Truths be made manifest in you and all of us....for it is His Word that will indeed set you free.

Seekerof:
Your reply came when I wrote. I've said what I've said, but I'll respect you and don't go into this any further in this thread.

Megasquad:
I've sent you a u2u, so please check it out.

Blessings,
Mikromarius

Thanks a lot for your understanding seekerof.

I will probably post a reply on mikromarius' message but I hope this will soon end because we end up offending each others belief's.

And sorry if I offended anyone('s demons)

just kidding..

Stay well.

[Edited on 14-7-2003 by Megaquad]

I must say I am somewhat shocked with you to say the least.
To every point you made I have explanation, however that doesn't matter. You would always come up with something to justify it, so would I, if you insist, I can tell it but that is not important now.

I want to tell you something that has in part to do something with your stigmata's.
You said once they are scars made with accidents, well Satan is the one who makes such accidents.
If God wanted to give you stigmata's, they would be like documented so far, they would just come up, not caused by accidents.

Satan got approvance from God to try and collapse your fate very, my friend.
Even though you failed the test, you can still return.

How about taking for example this, its about catholic priest who received stigmata's, there are many more cases like this:

Sudac, whose wounds have been declared "not of human origin" by Vatican doctors at the Gemelli Clinic in Rome, is somewhat less dramatic when discussing his holy affliction. It happened at "a friendly get-together in one family's home," the priest says in his only interview available in English (given soon after his initial stigmatization). Unspecifically noting that the wounds imbued him with "a tremendous fear of the Lord," Sudac says he suffers little pain from the stigmata, except when he is praying. "Then I feel it pulsing," he reports. "On first Fridays . . . it's known to bleed and leak as though it is crying."

Other marvels Sudac received along with stigmatization include "gifts of levitation, bilocation, and knowledge of upcoming events."

I know that you have great spiritual experience but there have been catholic people mostly who had things like that, completely, not just scars of accidents like in your case.

st. Faustina had visions of hell, saw Jesus and had amazing experiences, and everything dictated by Jesus comfirmed catholic church. Again, no reason to believe your claims.
While I believe that everything you experienced is correct, there is no reason to believe that you are not being deceived.

When communions were starting to be given on hand instead of directly to mouth, in Canada God gave a sign of disapproval with that act.
All communions flown in air in front of the witnesses. That was a sign from God that people are doing something wrong. God would surely send such sign if what you say is true.

Lord said he reveals himself to small ones, therefore it is false to claim that only way to find him is insanely studying of history of such matters.

As for saints, if its such a sin to pray to them why are people healing when praying to them? Sin would surely manifest itself in front of God's wrath, bad things happening in family etc. but this has NEVER happend and people healed from various injuries, material problems etc.

Virgin Mary is one of what you call "dead people", how about that?
She is one of saints also, the greatest saint.

Worse than a crown on a fool's head is the borrowed words of wisdom in his mouth!

This one goes out to the demon who made you say I said Jesus was a liar:

Yes, you are clearly saying it through what you stand for.
I will tell you again, old serpent wanted and got approval to question your faith.Why? Because you have potential to deceive many others.

While your "teachings" wont make you lose gift of salvation it can make you and might make some others to lose destined place in God's kingdom and lose grace received through catholic church.

"Watch out that you do not lose what you have worked for, but that you may be rewarded fully. Anyone who runs ahead and does not continue in the teaching of Christ does not have God; whoever continues in the teaching has both the Father and the Son. If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not take him into your house or welcome him."

Note: Going to take this hopefuly to private soon.

[Edited on 14-7-2003 by Megaquad]

After this with mikromarius, and generally, there is lot of discussion whether it is right to pray to saints.

I found this on one website, and I think it explains it beautifully:

"Listen my brothers and sisters, remember when you were children (as we still are: children of God) and we had some need or request, and we were afraid of going directly to dad for whatever reason, so instead we ran and pleaded with mom, knowing that if she saw the merits of our cause, we could trust her to talk to dad for us.�"

All prayers we give to saints, they give them to God in our name!
And since they are pure, it is more powerful than when we, with our sinful nature give them.
Same thing virgin Mary does! Also, before tortured saint's died, such as st. Apollonia they said that we should ask them to help us in front of God.

"....the prayer of a righteous man is powerful and effective."
James 5:16

Often, this is example what is being said to saints: "St. Joseph, pray for us." - I can't see how this is false.

Revelation 5:8
And when he had taken it, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb. Each one had a harp and they were holding golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints.

Revelation 8:3-4
Another angel, who had a golden censer, came and stood at the altar. He was given much incense to offer, with the prayers of all the saints, on the golden altar before the throne. The smoke of the incense, together with the prayers of the saints, went up before God from the angel's hand.

"When you prayed with tears...I offered your prayers to the Lord.... For I am the angel Raphael, one of the seven who stand before the Lord."

Here you see proof that prayers are 'offered' and given in such way.

The early Church of the Apostles was the One Holy Catholic(universal)Apostolic Church.....
Which means the teachings and the traditions(passed down orally)of the early Christian Church.

As it sais in the Nicene Creed ........I believe in one God ,the Father Almighty,maker of Heaven and earth....etc......the Nicene Creed is still used today as it was written in the 3rd century for all of Christianity......no change should have been made to it .......and the Orthodox Church still use the original Creed today.....based on the original old calander The Julian.......
Christianity is not about fighting or arguing who is right or wrong.......although today it seems that way.
A true Christian accepts the true teachings of the Apostles and what they were taught by Jesus Christ Himself......whether it was written in scripture or passed down orally for the past thousand years.
The original teachings and the Pascha(easter)that is celebrated every year should be as was in the time of the Apostles.........Change is wrong.....modernizing the teachings for the people's sake is all wrong because one change leads to other changes.......

The prayers of the Saints(whom are not DEAD people but are alive ......and reign with God ) are Intercessors for Us......they pray for us and because they led rightous lives their prayers are heard.......not that our prayers are not, but because of their dedication to only serve God........
In the Old Testament prayers of the rightous were granted by God because of their true and godly lives...(i have written this before in another post )
We do not worship the Saints or the Mother of God(theotokos......The bearer of God).....we ask of their prayers to be heard by God ..
The first Icon of the Mother of God and baby Jesus was in fact painted by Saint Luke.......and an Icon is like a window into the other world......it represents the other world that our eyes cannot see.....Jesus Christ is God and was not seen by anyone in the Old Testament......but taking flesh and becoming a man He allowed the people to see who is God......whom made US in His image.

Today because of the modernization of the Scriptures the Devil has gained strength and resides in our souls....he allows us to think that we are gods and that we know everything and that a bit of change is good.....
Lucifer fell because he wanted to be God......he became Satan and other Angels ..demons followed in his path to destroy us with him.......
Has he succeeded???
Yes to a certain degree he has....

Jesus Christ did not send out priests to committ crimes of evil.......the people themselves have allowed to be influenced by the Devil....

Kyrios means Lord.....
Ekklisia means the people....

read Apostolic Succession
.The Biblical Foundation
.The Historiacl Evidence
By Gregory Rogers.

Helen,
The history you state is factual. The problem with the history is that it is factual.

Jesus never intended for Doctrine to rule believers. He told the apostles to spread the Word. He did not say, set up a mighty kingdom, with surragates in my name who set up other fiefdoms. (papacy etc...

I was told by a friend a few years ago that I was "condemmed to hell" because I did not follow the Catholic Churches 'doctrines', i.e., Easter(astarte,fertility), the 12 stations in worship, praying for other intervention( dead or alive), holding the pope, an elected official, in reverence. I have seen this many times where condemnation is meted out instead of fervrent hope and real bible instruction should be.

My days in the church seemed like a walk in an icebox. No fire of the spirit. All doctrine, all the time. It is sad that I remember nothing from 17 years of services in my past church...I asked certain Priests for spiritual guidance and recvd 'I don't knows' and more doctrine....I just do not believe that Jesus authored this machine. Two centuries is a long time between His ascension and what was done with His instructions to Peter.

I do not hold issue with Catholics, just the machine that is the church. I was a part of that machine and defended it as passionately as I am speaking now.

Just a bit of my story.

Originally posted by Megaquad
After this with mikromarius, and generally, there is lot of discussion whether it is right to pray to saints.

Something which it is not. God is furious when we decide who we need to speek to ourselves without trusting our Father's perfect system for receiving and answering prayers. In Heaven it works the other way around. We pray to God, and his secretary receive the call and it's up to God who he puts on the case. To ask a dead not yet ressurrected saint to pray for you what good does that do you? Or what good is there in praying to angels? It is like asking a hand to give you something. A hand has no ears and no mind to discern what you want and how to give it to you. You ask the person who owns the hand if he can give you something, not the hand or the foot. How deep does this rot go?

I found this on one website, and I think it explains it beautifully:

"Listen my brothers and sisters, remember when you were children (as we still are: children of God) and we had some need or request, and we were afraid of going directly to dad for whatever reason, so instead we ran and pleaded with mom, knowing that if she saw the merits of our cause, we could trust her to talk to dad for us.�"

And now you add cowardness to your trailer. Congratulations, you've just put another stone to your burden. Cowards aren't allowed in to God's kingdom, I thought you knew that. Fear God. That way you don't bother him too much, and he'll love you even more, and in the end you'll cry Abba! Daddy! I love Thee!!!

All prayers we give to saints, they give them to God in our name!
And since they are pure, it is more powerful than when we, with our sinful nature give them.
Same thing virgin Mary does! Also, before tortured saint's died, such as st. Apollonia they said that we should ask them to help us in front of God.

Then wait until you stand face to face with God. When both you and your favorite saint that died before you stand beside you ressurrected together with all the rest. Then you'll understand what they meant.

"....the prayer of a righteous man is powerful and effective."
James 5:16

Then quit praying to the dead, for they can't help you with anything and it sure don't make you rightious before the Lord. He'll scoff at you, I promise you. Don't you believe in the ressurrection of the flesh in the Judgement? God, how can anyone be saved when the believers act like this?

Often, this is example what is being said to saints: "St. Joseph, pray for us." - I can't see how this is false.

Don't you see that Arch Michael the chief Prince uses most of his time to pray for the saints? If the chief Prince must pray for the saints how can the saints pray for you? Do rather your best to become a beloved of God, hey even a saint, then perhaps God asks Arch Michael to pray for you.....

Revelation 5:8
And when he had taken it, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb. Each one had a harp and they were holding golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints.

And even saints pray only when they live. Among those prayers are the prayers Frans of Asissi prayed in the spirit while he lived. Now he's dust and his soul I believe is with God where he awaits the ressurrection and the judgement.

Revelation 8:3-4
Another angel, who had a golden censer, came and stood at the altar. He was given much incense to offer, with the prayers of all the saints, on the golden altar before the throne. The smoke of the incense, together with the prayers of the saints, went up before God from the angel's hand.

I still can't see how this justifies prayers to dead people. Dust and salt.

"When you prayed with tears...I offered your prayers to the Lord.... For I am the angel Raphael, one of the seven who stand before the Lord."

The job of the Archs is among other things to pray for the elect and bring their prayers before God. But direct your prayers to God, for unless you do that they stop there. You can't have two masters, you'll love one over the other. Why is this so difficult to understand?

Here you see proof that prayers are 'offered' and given in such way.

Again you read the word like the old master Satan; to suit yourself and not God. When Daniel received his visions and visitations by Arch Gabriel, who had he prayed to? God or Gabriel? He prayed to God, and God sent Gabriel to the prophet. It's as easy as that.

If I send a letter to the king of Norway, I don't write to his secretary called Per asking him or her to bring my case before his lord and I certainly don't do it every day until he does. I write dear king bla bla bla, and the secretary in his staff who gets the letter on his or her desk reads the letter and forward it to the king if it is good, if not it ends in an archive and I get an automated response. That's how it works here on Earth and it's the same in Heaven. What makes you Catholics believe that you're inside with the angels and the saints. You are not. You are their worst nightmare. Saints pray to God, that's one of the reasons why they are saints. Besides: How can we know who is a saint and who is not? God alone knows his elect, not you, not me and certainly not the pope, and I believe you'd be amazed to see who God has chosen. The pope can't choose anyone to stand before God. God elects his beloved, there is nothing we can do one way or the other in this matter. The alcoholic on the corner may be chosen before you. Think about that.....

In the end I want to add something. There is nothing I want more than that as many as possible is allowed into the Kingdom. But as it is now, none will be saved except the very few who hold on to the word of God and live it out in their lives, something that is close to impossible today. So repent from the eternal sins of Rome. Leave her! She is a whore and a murderer. She always was and always will be. Flee from Babylon! Meet instead in your own homes where there are fewer things to take away your attention from the Lord and his message. And while you are together, pray that every icon and statue, every geometric representation of God everything that is unholy and filthy to be removed from the churches. And when that has been done, walk in great herds dancing with cries of joy into the cathedrals and churches again and you will see with your own eyes that God loves thee. Perhaps his holy precence will be there.

Catholics have never been good at symbols and stuff. When a statue representing Mother Mary cries blood they go: "Oh my God it's a sign! We must make this statue even holier! Let's make a shrine of gold for it and make this place a pilgrim place" instead of destroying the statue in shame for having made the Mother of the King into stone, forcing her to stare empty out into the air without being able to close her eyelids for houndreds of years until the only thing she can do is to cry blood. Shame it is! Great shame!!!

Blessings,
Mikromarius

Originally posted by helen670
The early Church of the Apostles was the One Holy Catholic(universal)Apostolic Church.....

Who tells you these lies? Lord, give me hope! There has never been a church of the apostles. The apostles doesn't go to church unless they have to. It's an awful place to be if you are a man of God. The catholic church is so far from the Ecclesia as it can get. Believe you me! If you didn't know it, God actually hates naturalistic art. It is plagiarism. God owns the copyright to everything he has created. Unless there is a noble reason for it (viewing and decoration is not included), like saving humanity, don't do it! Create instead like God does. Make new things that doesn't exist and doesn't resemble anything in Heaven, on Earth or below the Earth. Make new things or make what God tells you to make. But to look at the clouds and say God showed you how to paint the roof of the Sixteenth Chapel just isn't good enough. Michelangelo had to pay with his eyes to paint that roof, and it was God who did it to him! For how could he know what Adam's dick looked like? He even took his freedom to shave it.... Those things belong in museums. It amazes me how when you've finally have been allowed to read the bible, you still doesn't see the filth of the Romans! It really puzzles me..... Instead of nodding ad notam shamefully when you read how the Roman church killed any layman who owned a bible during the dark ages, you support the killers by saying their ways are the Way of the Lord, which it's definately not! Repent! Flee from the whore and all her filth! You should rather open your eyes and see the apostacy before it's too late and God turns away while the old lovers of the whore destroys her! That is God's will, whether you believe it or not. He has sent prophets to her early and late, but they have all been killed, tortured or have been forced to flee. The situation with the church today is with few exceptions the same or worse than the story was with Israel at the time of Jesus of Nazareth. Repent or be among them who is cast out when Jesus comes as a thief in the night to celebrate the final stage in his marriage.

Blessings,
Mikromarius

Mt 23:9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

Now, who has made it into a sport to call all their earthly leaders for fathers? I don't want to help you with this one.....

Mt 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Blessings,
Mikromarius

This has puzzled me for some time. Why is there so much anti-Catholicism in the western world?

Because The Catholics have Persecuted every Religion known to man at one point, Every Christian Church, Budist, Muslims, Hindus ect...

Plus, the Catholic Church was man made becuase of a Bishop who thought he should be in Charge of the Church in the Western Roman Empire. The Catholic Church has been corrupt since it started, from the first Bishop to raping priest.

Originally posted by Tyriffic
Helen,
The history you state is factual. The problem with the history is that it is factual.

So right so right..... It was sad though to hear yet another story like your's. God bless you, mister. I'll sing with Bob Marley:
Don't worry....
about a thing......
'Couse every little thing....
is gonna be allright.....
Everybody now:
Don't worry....
about a thing......
'Couse every little thing....
is gonna be allright.....

Blessings,
Mikromarius

Originally posted by mikromarius

Originally posted by Tyriffic
Helen,
The history you state is factual. The problem with the history is that it is factual.

So right so right..... It was sad though to hear yet another story like your's. God bless you, mister. I'll sing with Bob Marley:
Don't worry....
about a thing......
'Couse every little thing....
is gonna be allright.....
Everybody now:
Don't worry....
about a thing......
'Couse every little thing....
is gonna be allright.....

Blessings,
Mikromarius

Thank You,
Those days are long past and I was fortunate to have not been abused physically or mentally tortured. I just never felt God's presence when I was there.

mikromarius and Helen

By quoting the bible a person only proves that he has learned nothing from it. For it takes a strong mind to understand its true meaning not to be taken literally but as a scripture of enlightenment to be used to better society not to judge.

The scriptures are there for our benefit!

Understanding and trying to interpret them of our own accord is useless because there will always be arguments that would arise from different points of view.....causing Schisms as it has already been done!

The Apostles gave us the New Testament and the teachings of Jesus Christ.......and these teachings of how to read and understand the Bible is already been established for thousands of years.....not to profit or benefit the Church ....but to benefit the people and their souls..........

Ecumenical councils ....

1/Nicea;
2.Constantinople;
3.Ephesus;
4.Chalcedon;
5.the second at Constantinople;
6.the third at Constantinople;.
7.the second at Nicea.
The ecumenical councils were formed so that rules or canons were established and were all under the same Christianity beleifs.
The first council the allowing of priests to marry and the celebrating of Pascha(easter) on the first sunday after the first full moon folloing the spring equinox,after the Jewish Passover.
Many other rules and cannons were also established.
318 bishops participated in this council ...

The seventh ecumenical council was held in the year 787A.D.in the city of Nicea,and was composed of 367 fathers.
The Orthodox Church (old calander Russian) recocnizes only the seven and not any of which the Roman Catholic in addition to these 7 councils recocnizes more then 20........After the Great Schism of the East and West.......1054......

There have been no new ''modernizing'' rules added to the Christian Church which still stands today....unaltered and considered 'old fashioned' by many!

Originally posted by FoxStriker


Plus, the Catholic Church was man made becuase of a Bishop who thought he should be in Charge of the Church in the Western Roman Empire. The Catholic Church has been corrupt since it started, from the first Bishop to raping priest.

I cannot accept any post from the toatally unqulified Foxstriker reguarding this subject. He cannot even show a mildly reliable understanding of the churches formation or hierachy. Just another illinformed propagandist jumping on the bandwagon. The only thing gained from his opinion is an increase in his post count.

Mikromarius, if your language did not contradict your topic, you would be midly convincing. But since you post's(all of them, including other threads) are tainted with hate, condemnation, and anger, I can only see the deamon that has control of you. Better you take a page from out of your own book and start praying to the real God. The pride(therefore sin) you portray give's me the jitters (even through the medium of the internet).

Nothing I have seen can prove to me beyond a doubt that Catholisism is wrong. But that is the beauty of the bible. Quote out of context, take what you want from it. Believe that God intervenes in our lives to prove to us that he does exist. There is no wonder that there are so many religions in the world today, with the formation of a new cult every day. If you want something to believe in or back up a belief turn to the bible. Somewhere in there you will find it.

Weather you go to church or not, God is a personal thing. We all have our own types of relationships with him, wheather we believe it or not.

Mikro, reguarding your analogy of concernig the king of Norways secetary. I have this (if just to add some humor to this thread) Catholic's are lucky in that they can address the secetary for a favour, one of the perks of knowing someone in a position of influence. Happens everyday in bussiness. Also if a below average Catholic arrives at the pearlly gates, only to find out that St. Peter cannot find his name in the addmissions list, he can duck round to the back door and ask Mary, Gods mother, if he can come in. All non-catholic's have pretty much only one chance of getting in. Now any gambler would tell you what the better punt is.

Please dont reply to this, it humour.

Helen,
I have a question for you.

What is your opinion of Vatican 2 and the ecumenical efforts of John Paul??

Maddas. Not hate, condemnation and anger, but burning love, respect for the ways of the old and an eager will to change the ways of the church so she might live a little longer. I'm a serious man when it comes to God and the holy, and it saddens me and it makes me frustrated that the ones who hear and hear still are as deaf as they were when my Father walked around in Palestine some 2000 years ago, and still as blind, blinded by everything you have created to fill the empty place where God should have been. I am big time frustrated that not even now are you willing to hear the words that leads to salvation: A clean soul in a clean body. But the body is unclean and filthy but the soul is in God's hands. If my only pride, Jesus, makes gives you the creeps, then perhaps it is you there is a problem with. I have to face all the demons people believe I have inside, I will win over them all with the help of God. God refines his servants like silver and gold is cleansed in fire, only the strong ones make it to the Door, and only the rightious may enter, and they are rightious them who believe in Jesus and live out their beliefs. Before you go further with your demon thing, I want to mention that Jesus was also called a demonpossessed Samaritan, not that I will compare myself with my King for I am far from him, but I seek to become like him. The bible is serious business, but you treat it like a football magasine.

And you say that my scars aren't real stigmata. Well did Jesus' wounds come all by itself, or does he still carry his scars? Was it God or Satan that gave him the wounds? And why is it that all (or most of) the Catholic hand stigmatas is in the palms of their hands and the foot stigmata through the soles of the feet? If a man weighing 75 kg is nailed to a tree through the palms and soles, he would fall down from the cross within minutes. My stigmata on my right hand is on the wrist, and on my left hand (and the right) I often get a red spot that dissapares when I press down on it, but reappears when I let go of the pressure. My foot stigmata are through the shin of my leg. And you're not a very good standup comedian But I have to say that sure it works to pray to angels, only when their out fighting the war in Heaven you'll end up calling the Ghostbusters for help, for noone you know is answering. Go to an online bible and search for the word Father in the gospels, then you'll see what Jesus wants us to. But in Catholic reality, Father is the name of every priest. When you go to confession and say "Please forgive me Father for I have sinned...." the priest answers "Yes my child what is on your mind". It is the priest you talk to, not God you know. Jesus underline that we shall not call anyone on Earth father, only the Father who is in Heaven shall you call Father. Why is this so difficult to understand?

And a "random" word in the end:
Isaiah 35:1�The wilderness and the solitary place shall be glad for them; and the desert shall rejoice, and blossom as the rose. 2�It shall blossom abundantly, and rejoice even with joy and singing: the glory of Lebanon shall be given unto it, the excellency of Carmel and Sharon, they shall see the glory of the LORD, and the excellency of our God. 3�Strengthen ye the weak hands, and confirm the feeble knees. 4�Say to them that are of a fearful heart, Be strong, fear not: behold, your God will come with vengeance, even God with a recompence; he will come and save you.

Blessings,
Mikromarius