Ammon Bundy Wants National Effort to Buck Coronavirus Rules

a reply to: Snarl

I think you're right to point out more could have been done.
Once this is all over with, there needs to be a serious post mortem investigation.

And yes, the models the doctors and scientists are constructing are fluid and subject to change as more data comes in.
A report I heard just yesterday suggested that social distancing does seem to be working; more people are following the guidelines than they initially predicted.

a reply to: grey580

Thank you!

Those with the eyes to see, will see... those with the ears to listen, will hear...

a reply to: Boadicea

Cant blame him at all. The federal government has murdered more of his friends and acquaintances (one) than most any American personally knows who have died from Coronavirus. I hope he exacerbates this 100 fold.

So many people act like this is the first time Americans have been under quarantine. There were quarantines in 1918 as well.

As far, as Bundy he isn't a freedom fighter or patriot, he is a self aggrandizing, blow hard, trouble maker and if he actually does try to flaunt the government again, he may find that this time they may just put their jackboot to his face and unlike last time, the majority is against him and probably won't care or miss him.

In any case only an idiot or someone who wants the government to go full jackboot on them would be stirring up trouble at this time. And Bundy may think a lot of people will surge from their homes to join him like his last few shenanigans, but this time I think he will be sorely mistaken.

originally posted by: burdman30ott6
a reply to: Boadicea

Cant blame him at all. The federal government has murdered more of his friends and acquaintances (one) than most any American personally knows who have died from Coronavirus. I hope he exacerbates this 100 fold.

I hope so too. I can't think of anyone who could throw a wrench in the works like a Bundy. Just the name will get attention. And there will no doubt be some who are affected today in the worst ways will take another look at what happened then and put the pieces together.

I also hope and pray that no one gets hurt. And by that I mean I hope and pray that the Feds do not hurt anyone. Again.

originally posted by: Flavian

originally posted by: CraftyArrow

originally posted by: Flavian
a reply to: Boadicea

It's actually very simple. If you are infected and ignore isolation and that subsequently leads to you infecting someone else who dies - you are culpable. No if's, but's or maybe's about it.

Then YOU must be a MASS MURDER! I wonder how many people you given a cold and passed it on to others who died from complication of a cold and pneumonia. Your just walking around killing people without knowing it..... shame on YOU!

You see, one would have to be an idiot to think, someone who has a virus doesn't have constitutional rights.

Stupid....

Completely illogical argument. There are no lockdowns put in place for a common cold. However, due to the highly infectious nature of Covid-19, there are lockdowns.

Just because you can not see what is to come of this, doesn't make it illogical...
Eventually you could possibly be tried for killing millions of people due to the common cold.

give them an inch and they'll take a mile...

originally posted by: themessengernevermatters
So many people act like this is the first time Americans have been under quarantine. There were quarantines in 1918 as well.

This is the first time in U.S. history that ASYMPTOMATIC citizens with NO KNOWN EXPOSURE have been so restricted. False comparables are false.

As far, as Bundy he isn't a freedom fighter or patriot, he is a self aggrandizing, blow hard, trouble maker and if he actually does try to flaunt the government again, he may find that this time they may just put their jackboot to his face and... only an idiot or someone who wants the government to go full jackboot on them would be stirring up trouble at this time.

Only someone who likes the government going full jackboot on others would even make such a statement. And no patriot or freedom fighter would make such a statement. Only someone with no respect or consideration for genuine rights. So you are exactly the person Ammon Bundy is fighting against. And I'm good with that.

And Bundy may think a lot of people will surge from their homes to join him like his last few shenanigans, but this time I think he will be sorely mistaken.

I don't think Bundy "thinks" or expects anything from anyone. It seems that he knows many people already agree. And he probably believes there are more that he does not know of. And he probably hopes that others can be educated and inspired.

We'll all find out together where the truth lies.

originally posted by: Boadicea
a reply to: Gandalf77

"Do this"... "can't do that"... Tyranny much?

Hey, Bundy & the YeeHawdis are free to run their flappers all they want. There are plenty of non-public venues available to do so.

They could even assemble in a virtual environment.

Yes, civil officials have put restrictions on public gatherings. Yes, that presents some temporary hardship & inconvenience for a lot of people.

I would love to be able to attend mass in person on Sundays again, but I understand why we’re being asked to do so online. As a community, we’re trying to keep each other safe.

I’m not sure what people like Bundy don’t get about that. Squawking about temporarily losing a Gawd-given right in a time where exercising that right puts the lives of others in danger is just ridiculous.

a reply to: Boadicea

Oh no....I didn't know she passed away. I am so sad to read this. She was a really neat lady.

***

As to bucking the rules...people need to get organized and develop a plan.

But, for that to happen, people have to let go of their partisan anger to allow for meaningful, constructive discussion. I try to be fair with my criticisms as an 'Unaffiliated' voter. Yet, on any given day, if I even attempt to criticize government action, at any level, I'm shouted down for 'suffering from TDS' or for being a 'Trumptard' -- for putting any blame on the *wrong* party.

These days, people are partisan to the extreme. They don't care about anyone they *think* supports 'the other party.' They want them to suffer. They want government to hurt them. They want that so bad, they are willing to suffer and hurt themselves, just for the satisfaction of feeling like they 'scored a point.'

Government doesn't fear us, and they should. They are laughing at us, instead.

I talk to myself all the time, on ATS. There just aren't enough people interested in constructive discussion. Even some of the smarter folks on ATS would rather leave snarky drive-by comments or play devil's advocate than contribute in any meaningful way.

originally posted by: CraftyArrow

Just because you can not see what is to come of this, doesn't make it illogical...

I have posted the following a couple times now, so my apologies if you've seen it. I just want to emphasize that it doesn't even require logic or presumptions. We are being brazenly informed:

Dr. Michael Ryan, executive director of the WHO Health Emergencies Programme: In most parts of the world, due to lockdown, most of the transmission that's actually happening in many countries now is happening in the household at family level. In some senses, transmission has been taken off the streets and pushed back into family units. Now, we need to go and look in families to find those people who may be sick and remove them and isolate them in a safe and dignified manner.

Tucker Carlson: There has to be a more balanced course on coronavirus than the one we're on now

Note the weasel word "may" be sick. Not definitely sick. Not tested positive for anything. Just "those people who may be sick" which would, of necessity, include every person in that household. And "remove" them to where? Why?

How long until entire families are disappeared???

Mighty convenient for them having us all social-distancing and self-isolating in our homes, eh?

originally posted by: Boadicea

originally posted by: themessengernevermatters
So many people act like this is the first time Americans have been under quarantine. There were quarantines in 1918 as well.

This is the first time in U.S. history that ASYMPTOMATIC citizens with NO KNOWN EXPOSURE have been so restricted. False comparables are false.

As far, as Bundy he isn't a freedom fighter or patriot, he is a self aggrandizing, blow hard, trouble maker and if he actually does try to flaunt the government again, he may find that this time they may just put their jackboot to his face and... only an idiot or someone who wants the government to go full jackboot on them would be stirring up trouble at this time.

Only someone who likes the government going full jackboot on others would even make such a statement. And no patriot or freedom fighter would make such a statement. Only someone with no respect or consideration for genuine rights. So you are exactly the person Ammon Bundy is fighting against. And I'm good with that.

And Bundy may think a lot of people will surge from their homes to join him like his last few shenanigans, but this time I think he will be sorely mistaken.

I don't think Bundy "thinks" or expects anything from anyone. It seems that he knows many people already agree. And he probably believes there are more that he does not know of. And he probably hopes that others can be educated and inspired.

We'll all find out together where the truth lies.

Asymptomatic is irrelevant, either the government has the power to enact quarantines or doesn't and history shows it does. So, the comparison is apt, you trying to add asymptomatic to it to change it, is just a word game.

You don't know me at all and make a lot of assumptions about me. It's not that I want the government to go full jackboot on people, it is that I know the only reason they haven't is, because even though the media has been stirring up unrest in the population and egging on a civil war, revolution or uprising for decades now, is that the American people still haven't taken the bait. Go ahead take the bait, you and bundy will be the people that brings that self fulfilling prophecy to fruition.

As far as Bundy, he is an asshole who was mad about no longer getting free grazing rights of his cattle, than suckered a bunch of useful idiots into his cause, then later went half way across the country to help a family and really only got them in more # than they would have been. He isn't helping anyone but himself.

But like I said, you believe in Bundy, you fly out, hang out with him, you flaunt and stick your head in the government tiger cage, don't be surprised when it's your head not Bundy's that gets bit off.

Addition

Also in 1918 whole towns were quarantined which would include non infected as well as asymptomatic, people, so doubly irrelevant.

originally posted by: Boadicea

originally posted by: themessengernevermatters
So many people act like this is the first time Americans have been under quarantine. There were quarantines in 1918 as well.

As far, as Bundy he isn't a freedom fighter or patriot, he is a self aggrandizing, blow hard, trouble maker and if he actually does try to flaunt the government again, he may find that this time they may just put their jackboot to his face and... only an idiot or someone who wants the government to go full jackboot on them would be stirring up trouble at this time.

And Bundy may think a lot of people will surge from their homes to join him like his last few shenanigans, but this time I think he will be sorely mistaken.

And he probably hopes that others can be educated and inspired.

Believe me, it works both ways. There are plenty of folks here who hope Bundy can be educated too. (Personally, I'm not holding my breath.)

a reply to: Gandalf77

Squawking about temporarily losing a Gawd-given right in a time where exercising that right puts the lives of others in danger is just ridiculous.

No. People demanding these Draconian and unconstitutional measures are the ones putting others in danger by imposing their will upon everyone, based upon faulty and propagandized information, for their own perceived benefit.

I know damn well that people are, have been and will continue to be harmed -- even killed -- because of these shutdowns. Those enforcing them don't know a damn thing in the big picture.

There is no virtue in sacrificing some to protect others.

originally posted by: Boadicea

originally posted by: CraftyArrow

Just because you can not see what is to come of this, doesn't make it illogical...

I have posted the following a couple times now, so my apologies if you've seen it. I just want to emphasize that it doesn't even require logic or presumptions. We are being brazenly informed:

Dr. Michael Ryan, executive director of the WHO Health Emergencies Programme: In most parts of the world, due to lockdown, most of the transmission that's actually happening in many countries now is happening in the household at family level. In some senses, transmission has been taken off the streets and pushed back into family units. Now, we need to go and look in families to find those people who may be sick and remove them and isolate them in a safe and dignified manner.

Tucker Carlson: There has to be a more balanced course on coronavirus than the one we're on now

Note the weasel word "may" be sick. Not definitely sick. Not tested positive for anything. Just "those people who may be sick" which would, of necessity, include every person in that household. And "remove" them to where? Why?

How long until entire families are disappeared???

Mighty convenient for them having us all social-distancing and self-isolating in our homes, eh?

Terrifying.

Worse...there are a lot of people convinced actions, like this, are for our own good.

People like this Bundy guy are deluded.

YOU DONT HAVE ANY FREEDOM IN THE FIRST PLACE!

When there's a war you do what they say or die or get jailed


When you owe taxes THEY TAKE THE MONEY

You have to buy car insurance and all other kinds of forced activity's

and all kinds of things prove " freedom" isn't absolute in any society

You want that kind of freedom go live in the woods by yourself like the Unabomber but please, no bombs.

a reply to: themessengernevermatters

Please. I believe in principles, not people. I knew that the Feds were abusing their powers and authority in the west long before Bunkerville and the Bundys had even heard of the Bundy's. It is and always has been much bigger than the Bundys. it was then, and it is now.

If you can't see past the individuals to the principles involved, and you are not outraged at the jackboot thug tactics of the Feds against citizens, then you are part of the problem.

originally posted by: themessengernevermatters
So many people act like this is the first time Americans have been under quarantine. There were quarantines in 1918 as well.

Wow! I totally remember experiencing that!

a reply to: MotherMayEye

I feel like it all gets compounded by the fact that this is all a very, very different kind of "fight." Not just in regards to a virus outbreak with modern communication either!

A big part of me feels this type of action plays very well into the "plan" in the first place, whatever that might be.

My own thoughts are that the best way to actually "fight" is to provide and embrace the tools that would build our nations strength from the grassroots *up*, instead of from centralized corporations *down*.

We actually have those tools, or are right on the cusp of it. Focusing efforts in that direction would nip a lot of things in the bud, at the same time as returning stability and normality regardless of any quarantines. Its nigh impossible to control folks in the way that has been done for generations, if we were all able to provide basic needs in our own homes. Even further, we can build a new style of manufacturing base on top of it. Especially if we can fast track things like easy-to-use sintered metal printers.

Most conversations now are very, very specifically framed around a focal point. That focus is designed so that the people who accept it, and those that reject it, will be too busy accepting/rejecting to think of anything different.

Its a technique used across the board, for years. Even with automation, most speak of it in terms of how massive corporations and industries will adopt it, and how that will affect us from the top-down, rather than how it can be employed from the grassroots up to create a stronger nation.

I talk to myself a lot too

originally posted by: Boadicea
a reply to: themessengernevermatters

Please. I believe in principles, not people. I knew that the Feds were abusing their powers and authority in the west long before Bunkerville and the Bundys had even heard of the Bundy's. It is and always has been much bigger than the Bundys. it was then, and it is now.

If you can't see past the individuals to the principles involved, and you are not outraged at the jackboot thug tactics of the Feds against citizens, then you are part of the problem.

What principles, exactly, give people like Bundy the right to NOT pay taxes for grazing rights on public lands?
Moreover, what gives people like Bundy the idea they have private property rights on public lands?

originally posted by: MotherMayEye
a reply to: Boadicea

Oh no....I didn't know she passed away. I am so sad to read this. She was a really neat lady.

Damn. I'm sorry this is how you found out. She was a cool lady.

As to bucking the rules...people need to get organized and develop a plan.

But, for that to happen, people have to let go of their partisan anger to allow for meaningful, constructive discussion. I try to be fair with my criticisms as an 'Unaffiliated' voter. Yet, on any given day, if I even attempt to criticize government action, at any level, I'm shouted down for 'suffering from TDS' or for being a 'Trumptard' -- for putting any blame on the *wrong* party.

These days, people are partisan to the extreme. They don't care about anyone they *think* supports 'the other party.' They want them to suffer. They want government to hurt them. They want that so bad, they are willing to suffer and hurt themselves, just for the satisfaction of feeling like they 'scored a point.'

Can't argue with one word of that. The echo chambers and bubbles seem to be full to capacity.

Government doesn't fear us, and they should. They are laughing at us, instead.

Damn right! I don't know how to change that though. Too many people seem more afraid of themselves and each other than government.

I talk to myself all the time, on ATS. There just aren't enough people interested in constructive discussion. Even some of the smarter folks on ATS would rather leave snarky drive-by comments or play devil's advocate than contribute in any meaningful way.

I know that feeling too well. I don't know what to do but keep trying to have the conversation I want to have and hope someone else does too. We can't get away from the snarky drive-bys (that's how I think of them too!) and the shills and trolls... but sometimes I have great conversations with a couple or a few. And that's pretty awesome!