Ammon Bundy Wants National Effort to Buck Coronavirus Rules

originally posted by: ignorant_ape
ok - just for amusement .

let us assume that an "american patriot " [ lets call him " dick " ] is N19COVID positive and knows it...

Ooooh! Can we assume that YOU are an axe murderer too?

Let's just note that this is an assumption and not the reality here...

...does dick have a civic duty to self issolate - or should he just carry on " as normal " - and go about whatever business he wants , where ever he wants - claiming his " freedom " to roam

Interesting question, and one that has been addressed by law in various manners with HIV, and a duty to inform potential sexual partners of risk. However, I know of no laws addressing any/all contagious diseases.

If we go that route, shouldn't we also address those employers who insist on employees coming to work sick and thus endangering others?

Should we require every business and public accommodation to take temps before allowing someone into their establishment?

How far do we take this?

cry havoc and let slip the mental gymnasts

Says the one who has to use a half-assed hypothetical as a fear mongering talking point...

a reply to: Boadicea

It's actually very simple. If you are infected and ignore isolation and that subsequently leads to you infecting someone else who dies - you are culpable. No if's, but's or maybe's about it.

On the flip side, lockdown can't last forever or there will be mass disobedience. It is uncharted territory for the modern world.

I have to say i am lucky. I have a lovely detatched house with a nice garden so me and family aren't overly affected by lockdown. It is inconvenient but nothing more. I am however honest enough to admit that if my circumstances were different, this may not be the case. For example, if i lived in an appartment block with my family i think i would already be ignoring lockdown - people need outside space, particularly when it is getting hotter.

The whole thing is a difficult mess and, for once, i don't blame governments for their cack handed approach.

originally posted by: Flavian
a reply to: Boadicea

It's actually very simple. If you are infected and ignore isolation and that subsequently leads to you infecting someone else who dies - you are culpable. No if's, but's or maybe's about it.

Interesting but not well thought out. And what if these lockdowns do exactly that? What if my forced isolation with others leads to my infection? Who is responsible then?

Why is it okay for you to put me in danger to protect your life?

On the flip side, lockdown can't last forever or there will be mass disobedience. It is uncharted territory for the modern world.

Of course there will. Because it puts people at risk in many many ways. It sacrifices some for the benefit of others. Nothing virtuous about that.

I have to say i am lucky. I have a lovely detatched house with a nice garden so me and family aren't overly affected by lockdown. It is inconvenient but nothing more. I am however honest enough to admit that if my circumstances were different...i would already be ignoring lockdown - people need outside space, particularly when it is getting hotter.

Yes, people do need fresh air and sunshine and exercise and social interaction for mental, emotional and PHYSICAL health. So therefore, just the act of social distancing and self-isolation are endangering the health of everyone. Those with chronic conditions are even more at risk of adverse effects and outcomes.

But because YOU are in a sweet spot, and this protects YOU, it's all good. But if YOU weren't in this sweet spot, and if it didn't protect YOU, then you'd be ignoring the very rules and regulations you are now championing.

Eff everyone else, right?

The whole thing is a difficult mess and, for once, i don't blame governments for their cack handed approach.

Yeah, we've got that. Both the what and the oh-so-selfish why.

Ammon Bundy's an idiot and a nuisance. Of course he'd be the one trying to whip all the YeeHawdis into a frenzy.
As much as I love living in Idaho, it's that type of mentality that's putting people in danger.
Those of us who are actually listening to the scientists, doctors, and the data suggesting that social distancing is working are slightly horrified that people like Bundy aren't taking this seriously.

He actually said, "I want the virus now." You can't make this stuff up. Unfortunately, in places like the panhandle, there are plenty of folks willing to listen--the same folks who don't want to get vaccinated because cousin Merl sent them a scary email.

Idaho now has more cases of CV per capita than California. Blaine County (Sun Valley) has the largest per capita concentration of CV cases in the nation. (Source - NYT article)

Now I'm all for the constitution, bill of rights, etc. But I'm also for a little bit of common sense.
Let's not let notions of rugged individualism cloud our judgement and endanger our fellow citizens.

Bundy needs to shut his pie hole.

originally posted by: Gandalf77
Ammon Bundy's an idiot and a nuisance. Of course he'd be the one trying to whip all the YeeHawdis into a frenzy.

Blah blah blah... yada yada yada... insult... trash talk... and so on...

As much as I love living in Idaho, it's that type of mentality that's putting people in danger.

Exactly what mentality is that? The same mentality that recognized the gross tyranny and abuse of those in power, and thus inspired the Founding Fathers to declare the absolute and inalienable rights granted by Nature's God? Even knowing the dangers of contagious diseases among a malnourished and medically uninformed people? That mentality???

Those of us who are actually listening to the scientists, doctors, and the data suggesting that social distancing is working are slightly horrified that people like Bundy aren't taking this seriously.

That would be those scientists and doctors who admit that they really don't know much of anything? Those scientists and doctors who admit they do not know how to effectively treat these patients? Those scientists and doctors playing God and deciding who "deserves" life-saving treatment and who doesn't "deserve" it?

And that admittedly incomplete and therefore limited data? The faulty data?

He actually said, "I want the virus now." You can't make this stuff up.

No need to make anything up. I'm pretty sure I've already had it. And I'm glad. Even if I'm not strictly immune at this point, my body has at least some knowledge of how to fight it if I come down with again.

I'm not afraid of the virus. I'm not afraid of my own body. I understand that illness and disease is a constant threat in life, and if it's not one thing it's another. I've taken responsibility for my own health, taken efforts to educate myself on how to nurse, nurture and sustain my own health and life. And I know that the moment I was born, my death became a certainty.

None of us are getting out of here alive.

Unfortunately, in places like the panhandle, there are plenty of folks willing to listen...

And plenty of folks who can and will do their own thinking.

Idaho now has more cases of CV per capita than California. Blaine County (Sun Valley) has the largest per capita concentration of CV cases in the nation. (Source - NYT article)

Sounds like they are well on their way to herd immunity. That will serve them well when cold and flu season returns in the fall.

Now I'm all for the constitution, bill of rights, etc. But I'm also for a little bit of common sense.
Let's not let notions of rugged individualism cloud our judgement and endanger our fellow citizens.

Because mob mentality is so much better???

That is exactly what the Founding Fathers were protecting us from with a Constitutional Republic, protecting and defending the rights of the smallest minority: the individual.

So, no, apparently you are not "all for" the Constitution and Bill of Rights. Your principles are diametrically opposed to the founding principles.

Bundy needs to shut his pie hole.

And there you go throwing out Freedom of Speech too. Gotcha.

originally posted by: Flavian
a reply to: Boadicea

It's actually very simple. If you are infected and ignore isolation and that subsequently leads to you infecting someone else who dies - you are culpable. No if's, but's or maybe's about it.

Then YOU must be a MASS MURDER! I wonder how many people you given a cold and passed it on to others who died from complication of a cold and pneumonia. Your just walking around killing people without knowing it..... shame on YOU!

You see, one would have to be an idiot to think, someone who has a virus doesn't have constitutional rights.

Stupid....

a reply to: Gandalf77

May I ask if you think this is "common sense":

Dr. Michael Ryan, executive director of the WHO Health Emergencies Programme: In most parts of the world, due to lockdown, most of the transmission that's actually happening in many countries now is happening in the household at family level.

In some senses, transmission has been taken off the streets and pushed back into family units.

Now, we need to go and look in families to find those people who may be sick and remove them and isolate them in a safe and dignified manner.

Tucker Carlson: There has to be a more balanced course on coronavirus than the one we're on now

It seems to me that there is no useful or practical purpose in removing one family member who has been isolating among many. Wouldn't everyone be presumed to be infected at that point?

How long until entire families are "disappeared" for your imagined protection?

a reply to: Boadicea

Hey, where do you live?
I'll gladly buy Ammon a one-way ticket.
You just can't send him back.

originally posted by: Boadicea
a reply to: Gandalf77

Tucker Carlson: There has to be a more balanced course on coronavirus than the one we're on now

Ah yes, the almighty Tucka. The cornerstone of any logical argument these days.
How'd I know that was coming?

originally posted by: Gandalf77
Ammon Bundy's an idiot and a nuisance.

Yes. He is.

Those of us who are actually listening to the scientists, doctors, and the data

Should go and live in Commiefornia.

There are more than two sides to this particular argument. FWIW, no one but the damned commie chinese know what they built into their bio-weapon. There's a Lot of guessing going on with the scientists & doctors (and you damned sure better not believe the data) ... and not a whole lot of common sense (which is what social distancing is).

The government should have leaned on social distancing from day one. They failed.
The government should have stopped all travel the day china imposed quarantines. They failed.
The government should be disinfecting public areas the way the chinese and the Koreans did. They failed.

Bundy's a Grade-A @$$hole
Bundy got LaVoy Finicum all fired-up and where's he at now?

I ain't trusting either of those groups to do smart things. They've got agendas that are unconcerned with my personal longevity. With that in mind ... who else would?

a reply to: Gandalf77

Ah yes, the almighty Tucka. The cornerstone of any logical argument these days. How'd I know that was coming?

So you ignore the actual quote from the CDC health professional in order to belittle and denigrate the venue...

And you claim you listen to the scientists and doctors? Really???

What a pathetic copout.

a reply to: Gandalf77

"Do this"... "can't do that"... Tyranny much?

Thanks for inserting the exclamation point on the subject.

Well gee.... what could possibly go wrong there then?

If someone shoots one of these people dead because they get too close and they're seen as a threat to someones life (by infecting them), would the stand your ground laws apply?

originally posted by: Snarl
originally posted by: Gandalf77


Bundy's a Grade-A @$$hole
Bundy got LaVoy Finicum all fired-up and where's he at now?

Nah.... that wasn't Bundy's fault, it was the government. We couldn't trust the gov. back then, and now for sure we can't trust them.

originally posted by: neformore
Well gee.... what could possibly go wrong there then?

If someone shoots one of these people dead because they get too close and they're seen as a threat to someones life (by infecting them), would the stand your ground laws apply?

No.... stand your ground laws wouldn't apply. Just imagine this getting out of hand, people shooting others because they have the flu or cold etc... your excuse, "they where to close to me." LOL

Again ... Stupid!

a reply to: CraftyArrow

As stupid as ignoring health professionals advice cus 'Murica! ?

Probably, aye.

a reply to: Boadicea

/smh.

I'll just leave this here.

a reply to: Snarl

You make some excellent points -- thank you.

Bundy's a Grade-A @$$hole
Bundy got LaVoy Finicum all fired-up and where's he at now?

I think LaVoy was already fired-up by his own mistreatment by the Feds. The Bundys weren't an isolated incident. The Federal agencies involved -- specifically the Bureau of Land Management, and the Fish and Wildlife Service -- have a long and well-document history of abuse: Threats, Intimidation and Bullying by Federal Land Managing Agencies

If anything, it was the continued abuse by Feds which got LaVoy riled up.

I ain't trusting either of those groups to do smart things. They've got agendas that are unconcerned with my personal longevity.

I agree -- to one extent or another. I said at the time of the Bunkerville Standoff and at the Malheur Standoff, that I didn't like their methods, but I do respect and appreciate their grievances and willingness to stand up to the abuse.

With that in mind ... who else would?

Exactly. It would be pretty awesome if Bundy wasn't the only one doing so.

originally posted by: CraftyArrow

originally posted by: Flavian
a reply to: Boadicea

It's actually very simple. If you are infected and ignore isolation and that subsequently leads to you infecting someone else who dies - you are culpable. No if's, but's or maybe's about it.

Then YOU must be a MASS MURDER! I wonder how many people you given a cold and passed it on to others who died from complication of a cold and pneumonia. Your just walking around killing people without knowing it..... shame on YOU!

You see, one would have to be an idiot to think, someone who has a virus doesn't have constitutional rights.

Stupid....

Completely illogical argument. There are no lockdowns put in place for a common cold. However, due to the highly infectious nature of Covid-19, there are lockdowns.

originally posted by: CraftyArrow

originally posted by: Snarl
originally posted by: Gandalf77


Bundy's a Grade-A @$$hole
Bundy got LaVoy Finicum all fired-up and where's he at now?

Nah.... that wasn't Bundy's fault, it was the government. We couldn't trust the gov. back then, and now for sure we can't trust them.

Benefit of the doubt to you.