Social Distancing and Unintended Consequences

a reply to: chr0naut

Death.

What part of of the”Bill of Rights” do you not understand?

It’s not a “Bill of Privileges”

It’s not a “Bill of Suggestions”

These rights are here for good times, and especially bad times. And for every person like you who demands we submit to our overlords in the name of safety, I ask you why you even bother living in a fre society, when you can just move to an oppressive one and be happy. And if you are not from the U.S., then I would gladly ask you to keep your opinions to yourself on the matter.

a reply to: TheRedneck

By multimaterial, I mean actual different materials (not just plastics). I want my sintered metal printer!

And yeah.. It seems that once we get health issues, we become second class overnight. For me, and I believe yourself, my mind is still exceedingly capable. But, turning those ideas into reality is where the health problems really throw a wrench in the works.

Everything Ive done over the past 10-15 years has had the underlying hum of "Im still valuable as a person, even if I cant overcome my health problems." With this current event, it brought to light an attitude Ive felt for years. "Oh.. You got sick? Time to ignore you."

Personally, this was probably compounded by the fact that I used to be one of those people that excelled at everything they did. That changed overnight (basically) and its not easy to deal with.

a reply to: buddha

No- it refers to medical personnel, as those people are the ones in need. They aren’t even putting any other people in the field right now, trust me.

originally posted by: ThouArtGod
a reply to: chr0naut

Death.

What part of of the”Bill of Rights” do you not understand?

It’s not a “Bill of Privileges”

It’s not a “Bill of Suggestions”

These rights are here for good times, and especially bad times. And for every person like you who demands we submit to our overlords in the name of safety, I ask you why you even bother living in a fre society, when you can just move to an oppressive one and be happy. And if you are not from the U.S., then I would gladly ask you to keep your opinions to yourself on the matter.

How could an entire nation be so morally screwed up that they believe the carrying of a deadly weapon is a human right?

The US Bill of 'Rights' included legal enslavement and denied the vote for females.

The US incarcerates more of it population, in terms of per-capita ratio and in total numbers, than any other country on Earth. They aren't free, they are imprisoned. The US is not a 'free' country, it is the least 'free' country in the world.

The US was also one of the last countries to actually outlaw (most) slavery. From the nations birth, it was never a 'free' country. Even now, there is a legal loophole in the 13th amendment that does not completely abolish slavery. Get real here!

Mass shootings occur every few years in other countries and are national tragedies, but they occur every other week in the US. The result of US 'rights' made plain!

The US is a death culture. Some US 'rights' should not be rights. Other rights like those mentioned in the UN Charter on Human Rights, are entirely missing.

Tell me where, in any US statute, bill or codified law, where there must be presumption of innocence in a court of law? Quote that statute or bill with reference. The truth is, such a codified dictate doesn't exist in the US. Things US citizens believe protect them are non-existent!

The US government also maintains surveillance on its entire populace, and does a number of other things entirely contrary to the US Bill of Rights. Perhaps it is a Bill of suggestions and privileges?

originally posted by: chr0naut
How could an entire nation be so morally screwed up that they believe the carrying of a deadly weapon is a human right?

The US Bill of 'Rights' included legal enslavement and denied the vote for females.

The US incarcerates more of it population, in terms of per-capita ratio and in total numbers, than any other country on Earth. They aren't free, they are imprisoned. The US is not a 'free' country, it is the least 'free' country in the world.

The US was also one of the last countries to actually outlaw (most) slavery. From the nations birth, it was never a 'free' country. Even now, there is a legal loophole in the 13th amendment that does not completely abolish slavery. Get real here!

Mass shootings occur every few years in other countries and are national tragedies, but they occur every other week in the US. The result of US 'rights' made plain!

The US is a death culture. Some US 'rights' should not be rights. Other rights like those mentioned in the UN Charter on Human Rights, are entirely missing.

Tell me where, in any US statute, bill or codified law, where there must be presumption of innocence in a court of law? Quote that statute or bill with reference. The truth is, such a codified dictate doesn't exist in the US. Things US citizens believe protect them are non-existent!

The US government also maintains surveillance on its entire populace, and does a number of other things entirely contrary to the US Bill of Rights. Perhaps it is a Bill of suggestions and privileges?

There is so much wrong with your statement, that I don’t know where to start.

First, the 5th and 14th amendments speak to due process, which in English Common Law (the basis for much of our courts systems) includes the the presumption of innocence. So there’s that.

But funny that you would ask me for a statute that addresses this. While you have claimed that the bill of rights codifies slavery and denies the right to vote to women, it in fact does the opposite. So there’s also that.
And seeing as slavery exists in large swaths of the world today, I would argue that we did a pretty good job- hell, we are the only country to fight a major war to eliminate it. (Don’t demand references when you have failed to do the same. It’s tacky)

Concerning our right to bear arms- this is to prevent tyranny. There are too many instances throughout history for me to cite that prove that an unarmed populous is at the mercy of those who are in fact armed. I can also point to “progressive societies” where rights and freedoms are slowly eroding since their respective bans on firearms, or just point to the concentration camps in China to prove my point. The risk to death by firearms (excluding suicide, which is legal in many “progressive countries”) is well worth the defense against tyranny.

Surveillance is far more prolific in many western countries, but I would argue against it even to the level that exists here. But it’s more about its application than its existence.

Lastly, concerning jails, you won’t hear an argument from me. I believe we need a complete overhaul of our system, and have proffered solutions to the same- they are too long to enumerate here, but suffice to say I agree on this point.

I get it- you hate the U.S.
Congrats. Please don’t visit.

Meanwhile, I stand by my point. I’d rather die than have my rights trampled. And I’m glad that my country has its flaws- perfection would scare me.

a reply to: PaddyInf

Wow, you really believe you are excused from helping the rest of the country stay safe because you're 'not a sheep'. What that really means is that you are selfish and don't give half a horse apple about the risk you impose on others or the impact of your decisions when you become ill.

No, what it really means is that I am in control of what I do for others, hoss. You really think you have some God-given right to deny me medical care and then demand I act to help others in need? Boy, oh boy, do you have another think coming!

The truth is I have spent my entire life helping other people, likely orders of magnitude more than you have. You sit there in your cushy little urban playground and dare to lecture me about being selfish? But that generosity only goes so far, and when I am denied what I need, I have very little inclination to help provide what others need. That's the way things work over here.

Are you really saying that you don't have anyone who can drop a bag of groceries off for you? Are you really that unpopular? Hard to believe, what with the amazing public spirit you possess.

Are you really saying that you believe everywhere in the world is the middle of a town? There are two people whose homes I can even see from my property: one I mentioned, the other is an elderly lady who can't drive; her children are still in this general area so they help her.

You may not know this, but there are vast stretches of undisturbed country that still exist. We have several times more cattle than people out here. An ambulance is a minimum of thirty minutes away; the big hospital for heart work is almost another hour. We do have a smaller hospital 30 minutes away, but they are somewhat limited in their abilities.

The police, if called, will respond within 30 minutes if someone is dying. Otherwise, they'll get here in a few hours.

That, my ignorant friend, is reality here. You can take your preconceived notions and maybe get a cup of coffee form them... if you add in a dollar boot.

Your use of hyperbole is ridiculous. You are blatantly making excuses because you feel that your rights outweigh your responsibility.

Yer darn tootin' they do! Especially when it comes to people who think they have a right to make me do anything.

That's why we still have a few rights left, while you have none.

TheRedneck

originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: BoscoMoney

This social distancing thing aint hard when you've been doing it for a good portion of your life.

Yeah, I was a hermit back when hermits weren't cool, myself.

TheRedneck

Not sure what a social distance of 6 feet is going to accomplish coughs and sneezes travel up to 30 feet .

a reply to: Gargoyle91

That's fine; with the exception of my wife, I normally maintain better than a 1000 foot distance... much better, actually.

You'd need one helluva sneeze with a gale force backwind to get that far.

TheRedneck

originally posted by: ThouArtGod

originally posted by: chr0naut

There is so much wrong with your statement, that I don’t know where to start.

First, the 5th and 14th amendments speak to due process, which in English Common Law (the basis for much of our courts systems) includes the the presumption of innocence. So there’s that.

Although English Common Law is the basis for your law, it isn't US Law. remember, you guys rebelled.

5th:
No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a grand jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the militia, when in actual service in time of war or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

14th:
Section 1.
All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.

Section 2.
Representatives shall be apportioned among the several states according to their respective numbers, counting the whole number of persons in each state, excluding Indians not taxed. But when the right to vote at any election for the choice of electors for President and Vice President of the United States, Representatives in Congress, the executive and judicial officers of a state, or the members of the legislature thereof, is denied to any of the male inhabitants of such state, being twenty-one years of age, and citizens of the United States, or in any way abridged, except for participation in rebellion, or other crime, the basis of representation therein shall be reduced in the proportion which the number of such male citizens shall bear to the whole number of male citizens twenty-one years of age in such state.

Section 3.
No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of President and Vice President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the United States, or under any state, who, having previously taken an oath, as a member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of any state legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any state, to support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the enemies thereof. But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove such disability.

Section 4.
The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. But neither the United States nor any state shall assume or pay any debt or obligation incurred in aid of insurrection or rebellion against the United States, or any claim for the loss or emancipation of any slave; but all such debts, obligations and claims shall be held illegal and void.

Section 5.
The Congress shall have power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article.

Only Section 1 is relevant to judicial process.

But funny that you would ask me for a statute that addresses this. While you have claimed that the bill of rights codifies slavery and denies the right to vote to women, it in fact does the opposite. So there’s also that.

13th:
Section 1.
Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.

Section 2.
Congress shall have power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation.

(emphasis mine).

And seeing as slavery exists in large swaths of the world today, I would argue that we did a pretty good job- hell, we are the only country to fight a major war to eliminate it. (Don’t demand references when you have failed to do the same. It’s tacky).

Missouri, Kentucky, Maryland, and Delaware were part of the Union but permitted slavery at the time of the Civil War. If the Union was actually fighting a war over slavery, why wouldn't they have mandated that their states must abolish slavery as well? The Civil War was clearly over state rights and the victors have painted the picture of it having a high moral purpose.

Concerning our right to bear arms- this is to prevent tyranny. There are too many instances throughout history for me to cite that prove that an unarmed populous is at the mercy of those who are in fact armed. I can also point to “progressive societies” where rights and freedoms are slowly eroding since their respective bans on firearms, or just point to the concentration camps in China to prove my point. The risk to death by firearms (excluding suicide, which is legal in many “progressive countries”) is well worth the defense against tyranny.

There were lots of guns in Germany before the rise of Nazism. There were lots of guns in Russia before the revolution. It did nothing to prevent the rise of those tyrannical governments. Like it has done nothing to prevent tyrannical government in the US - ever.

Surveillance is far more prolific in many western countries, but I would argue against it even to the level that exists here. But it’s more about its application than its existence.

So the 4th amendment is just a suggestion?

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

Mass surveillance in the United States
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Lastly, concerning jails, you won’t hear an argument from me. I believe we need a complete overhaul of our system, and have proffered solutions to the same- they are too long to enumerate here, but suffice to say I agree on this point.

I get it- you hate the U.S.
Congrats. Please don’t visit.

I don't hate the US. I quite love most of it. But I'm not going to lie that it is something that it isn't. As a foreigner from a 1st world country, I see the US from a different perspective to you. It isn't perfect. It is what it is.

Meanwhile, I stand by my point. I’d rather die than have my rights trampled. And I’m glad that my country has its flaws- perfection would scare me.

You'd die for a nothingness? Life is your ultimate right and you'd just throw it away for jingoism?

a reply to: Serdgiam

By multimaterial, I mean actual different materials (not just plastics). I want my sintered metal printer!

Heh... you and me both!

I know all too well what you're saying; like you, my mind is fine. Only the body is broken. I am also old enough to remember when elders were respected for the lifetime of knowledge and wisdom they had accumulated. Today, not so much. And it will come back and bite society square in the butt, too. The exuberance of youth may seem wonderful at the time, but all that extra energy will fade to black, sooner than most realize. Then what's left? Only the mind.

Back then, I respected my elders. Sometimes I thought they were "old foggies," but I kept that to myself. Saved me a great deal of embarrassment over the years, too, when my youthful exuberance fell flat on its face while their knowledge and wisdom won the day. Today, oftentimes, I feel like a useless piece of rusted-out sheet metal... and all I can do is watch as people continually fall on their face, over and over, and then try the exact same thing again.

It's also going to get worse. This generation that is busily disrespecting us are also raising another generation that will in turn disrespect them when their time comes. I'm almost glad I won't be around to see the misery their later years will include.

TheRedneck

a reply to: TheRedneck

Now, now, these are the days when we let tweenagers lecture the UN and call them brave and get offended when they don't win the Nobel Peace Prize.

What do old folks know anyway?

*sigh*

a reply to: TheRedneck

I've self isolated myself from idiots for years, they are the problem.

People with kids let them run around the supermarkets, running into people and risking others while their parents ignore the advice to only buy two of every item, leaving the elderly and poor with no resources.

I'm calling it the idiot influenza now, because they deserve it. Look at the toilet paper issue-what a load of crap (you see what i did there?) did the cro-magnon or the neanderthals panic? no. If there ever is a vaccine then us smart people should get it first, the inconsiderate idiotic a holes can try to take care of themselves.

And I assure you, they won't be able to.

a reply to: Nyiah

Well said, and absolute truth.

Ace hardware is more lax

a reply to: Bloodworth

Yeah, I wish we had an Ace Hardware around here.

If it wasn't on the weekend... we do have a local Mom&Pop building supply I prefer, but it's closed on weekends.

TheRedneck

a reply to: TheRedneck

You make an awful lot of assumptions about me. Urban playground? I have settled in North Wales. My nearest neighbour is over half a mile away, and the nearest shop is in a hamlet (not even a village) which is a 15 minute drive. I am fully aware of the difficulties of rural life. However a group of us help the elderly and infirm people in the area by checking in on them and doing a grocery shop for them once a week. We dedicate a morning to phoning around the local vulnerable people to see what they need and to have a chat. We take it in turns to go to the shop for them, dropping the food at the front door. It's called being a good neighbour.

I don't know what you have done to help other people in the past, and you don't know what I have done. I do know that you are not helping now though.

No one is advocating that you be denied medical help. I am merely pointing out that, as a person at higher risk due to your heart conditions, by further risking your health unnecessarily you are potentially denying health care to someone else who may also need it. Regardless of what you believe, health care is a finite resource. It is geared to deal with a certain level of flow. This pandemic will put pressure on this and risks pushing resources past breaking point. My previous role saw me working in global healthcare settings in austere environments. I am fully aware of the impact of medical resource management and supply - this was my thing. My opinions are based on training and experience of medical strategy with limited resources. One of the primary principles is reducing unnecessary admissions by driving public health and minimizing risk taking behaviour. Your attitude is contrary to this, which is why I disagree with your position.

As for your stance on your rights versus responsibility, that is your opinion and of course you are completely entitled to it. Your views on social spirit and care for your community is up to you. I know that I am doing the right thing by doing my part in reducing the pressure on the health service. I am fully aware of the difficulties that this situation poses to those in remote areas. However I do not use them as an excuse to do nothing. I see them as challenges that can be addressed. I don't bitch about them, I deal with them. Having rights and doing the right thing are not mutually exclusive.

Self sacrifice and putting the needs of others before your self is not your thing. I get it. There's no point labouring the point with someone who has no desire to listen.

a reply to: PaddyInf

You make an awful lot of assumptions about me. Urban playground?

Yes, urban playground. I call 100% bull-pockets on the idea that you even see a tree every day. You have already told ketsuko that she should drive 6 hours round trip every day so her parents don't have to leave their house, and you would deny me the ability to do anything other than sit around and be quiet. That's not a helpful attitude; if you consider that "helping," all I can say is thank God you're not "helping" me.

I don't know what you have done to help other people in the past, and you don't know what I have done. I do know that you are not helping now though.

Oh, I'm not?

It might be more helpful if I just crawled off somewhere and died, I suppose? No need for any medical care that way; someone with the WuFlu can have it.

I based this whole thread on the fact that medical care is a finite resource; everything is a finite resource. That's why it has a price tag. I am pointing out two glaring inconsistencies in the way this is being handled. First, the lower occupancy rate, far below what everywhere in this country was made to handle, combined with legitimate needs people have and a draconian enforcement, have created a condition that itself bunches people up together, and often for longer time periods that they would in contact otherwise. Maybe you didn't catch it in my OP, but that line was already an hour or better long without me even being in it! I didn't stand in that line; I knew better than to try. But there were a lot of people standing there, and every one of them was at increased risk of catching the virus.

And every one of them was then at risk of passing it on to their loved ones. But the government said to do it, and the government is here to keep us safe, right? Right? Gotta do what the government says! No questioning allowed! No, no, better to attack those who do question the official policy, because obviously they were at fault.

I wonder what would happen if a Governor told the people to go out and spit in each others' mouths... I honestly believe some people would do it!

My opinions are based on training and experience of medical strategy with limited resources. One of the primary principles is reducing unnecessary admissions by driving public health and minimizing risk taking behaviour. Your attitude is contrary to this, which is why I disagree with your position.

Training is a good thing. But were you trained to look at the situation from one unique angle?

I had a damn good heart surgeon. The boy could do wonders with stitching tickers. if I had to go back through that hell again, I would be happy to see his face. I would (and have) recommended him many times since to others. But he did have a bedside manner that made me want to choke the crap out of him. We almost came to blows a couple of times. Totally inconsiderate of anything that wasn't pumping blood. No way in Holy Hades would I have wanted him in charge of my care overall. My cardiologist, on the other hand, is also damn good at what he does, but unlike the surgeon he has a more holistic approach. His hands aren't as steady so there is no way I would want him stitching and tucking that close to my backbone, any more than I would want to continue seeing my surgeon for general cardiac care. They each have their small area of specialty, both excel in it, and neither is worth a crap in the role of the other.

The idiot we have sitting in the Governor's Mansion is not a doctor; she's not supposed to be a doctor. She has absolutely no idea what this WuFlu is capable of, how it spreads, or how to stop it. She's not supposed to. She is supposed to be taking advice from all of the specialists in various fields (medical, economic, psychological, legal, etc.) and determining the right policy to keep everyone as safe as possible. That's why I elected her. She has failed miserably in several areas: her policies are too draconian to be legal; her policies are placing some people in unnecessary danger; her policies are hampering research to stop this damn virus; her policies are scaring people and thus putting the health of those in need of care in jeopardy. That's the problem you cannot see because your "training" didn't cover that... and because you cannot fathom someone having a point of view that differs from yours.

Are you aware that nursing homes here are turning people away because they use a BiPap machine? People are already being denied medical care because of this panic. That is happening; I actually know some who are going through this. They didn't practice any "risky" behavior; they have been in the hospital since this whole thing started! They cannot get the care they need, because people are terrified they will catch this cold.

That's right: this COLD. There, I said it. The novel coronavirus of 2019, AKA the "WuFlu," is a type of COLD. It is more infectious than the common cold, the infection can be asymptomatic and cumulative in nature, and high risk individuals can easily die from the complications... but it is still a COLD. Due to the highly infectious nature of it, we will all catch it eventually. That's a certainty. Every single person on the planet, you, me, and everyone we know is going to have a case of the WuFlu. Some will die from complications; most will never even know they had it. That's just reality, and I am amazed that someone with your "training" is not aware of this.

The best goal is to try and prevent the spread to high-risk individuals as long as possible in the hopes that someday, the red tape machine will allow the medical researches to actually create a workable cure with a high survivability rate. In the meantime, we also need to not destroy people's lives. Right now, thanks in large part to silly policies such as the one I have pointed out, suicides are up... those are deaths. 100% of people die when they commit suicide, just as surely and just as dead as if they died from the WuFlu. Domestic violence is up... people can and have died from that as well, just as surely and just as dead as if they died from the WuFlu. People are being actively denied health care. That can easily lead to deaths, just as surely and just as dead as if they died from the WuFlu.

The death rate from the WuFlu is probably less than 5%, potentially as low as under 1%... though admittedly we do not know because we are tossing people into solitary confinement for a positive test result from a test that is well-known to give false positives (isn't Kentucky doing that for just coming in contact with someone testing positive?). We'll never know this way... 100 years from now, after spending billions of dollars, we will have no better idea than we have now, because we are actively skewing the results by scaring people.

So you'll understand when I take exception to your bonehead notion that all these other deaths don't matter, as long as people don't die from the WuFlu.

Lord, save me from those who want to save me!

TheRedneck

It is really sad, but my family relies on Walmart pick up also. One member with recent major surgery, one 86 and one 67. So what have we had to do? Not eat anything fresh.

It is a lot of work to correctly clean fresh foods and often they are out of them. A worker must pick out the fresh stuff and so must handle it.

Fresh anything? Off our menu for the duration, likely 18 months to 2 years until a vaccine is developed. The virus will not stop spreading as it was designed to do until there is a vaccine.

Once the lockdown is lifted there WILL be a second wave. The country will NOT economically and probably not socially survive another long term lockdown when there is a second wave of the virus. This is quite clear. However, the hospitals won't be overwhelmed in the second wave like the first.

This virus is designed to be easily spread with the contagious unaware they are spreading it until they have infected as many as possible. So we plan to gut it out in self-isolation through the second wave, and a very likely to happen third wave in the fall and well into 2021.

But for the lockdown - no fresh foods for anyone in our household. No more than 1 square of TP per pee, and 4 squares per poo. That is the new American way of living - get used to it EVERYONE, this is going to last a long long long time.

It is sad, but many younger, urban people don't care at all - after all we vulnerable are useless to them, they think we no longer contribute to society. Tell that to my executive daughter and her executive husband who rely on us for after school childcare - how useless we are and so we should be locked away and allowed to die with no one watching because we are old.

Until we are completely and totally conditioned to fear anyone outside our home.

Until we fear gathering with more than a handful of people and stop volunteering (my little group was doing a great deal of that at the local prison, with the homeless, making quilts for hospitals, nursing homes, and drug recovery centers) to eliminate any non-governmental approved and overseen activities.

Until we won't go to church anymore because we are too afraid and quit our faith which will be a joy to most governments around the world, religion is a threat to most governments because people are meeting outside of government control. Until we have become dependent on handouts from the government and are willing to submit to oppressive, repressive totalitarian socialism because we are afraid to do otherwise.

These are the goals of many governments around the world and is being pushed as "good advice" on US government as the right thing to do LONG TERM, and TPTB "advice" is to keep people on lockdown "for their own good".

For many governments the goal is to get the people to submit to the fear and cry out for a deeply authoritarian/totalitarian socialism/communism style of government to take care of them. Not realizing those forms of governments don't care about individuals at all or in the least, they only care about 2 things: power for the political class and what is good for the collective, which sometimes (far too often) entails getting rid of "troublesome or resource sucking" (ill, handicapped, etc.) individuals, ala China, Stalin, Mao, Castro, etc.

Someday we will all be resource sucking, old, ugly and in need of more resources than when we were young, ALL of us, and socialism will find us to be not worth the trouble to cure, as is the case in many countries in Europe who are democratic/socialist. But remember when it happens, you asked for it if you are young and thinking the government should be everyone's parent and take care of you. IF this lockdown has convinced you of the absolute need of a huge government who "takes care of" everyone and everything.

a reply to: The2Billies

Your post reminded me of a movie from long, long ago... it was called Logan's Run. I know you are probably familiar with it, but for the sake of those young'uns who are not...

Logan's Run is about a fellow named Logan who is calmly working in his profession, killing people off who have outlived their usefulness. Everyone knows in this futuristic world that they are granted a specific number of years to live, after which they are to report for death. A few, though, decide to play rebel and try to survive beyond their allotted years. That's where Logan and his co-workers come in. They are tasked with tracking down those who are not abiding by the law and trying to live longer than allotted and remedy the situation.

Then it is Logan's time to go... and he makes a run for it himself. In the process, he discovers that the allotments are not equally given out, and worse, that the elderly have knowledge that has been lost, knowledge that will help society if only they were allowed to live. He finds this out by finding others like himself who have managed to somehow survive outside society, while dodging a long-time friend who is simply trying to keep him from becoming a criminal by killing him.

It's a good flick.

When I first saw it, I remember thinking it was actually possible for a society to turn that way... and now it seems like it is not only possible, but perhaps an inevitability. Look at the responses in this thread: several are bemoaning how those who are older still have needs, and not only is a complete lack of compassion exhibited toward those who are not 100% healthy, but they are admonished for not sitting in their damn rockers and behaving while others try to save themselves from something that likely won't even slow them down. There are even those who think they are doing people some great favor by placing them in solitary confinement in their own homes, a practice that in our penal system has been deemed "inhumane" for the most hardened criminals. But, hey, it's "for our own good."

No, they think it's for their own good... the lies about wanting to help the vulnerable are just that: lies, repeated to themselves in some sort of fear-induced mantra to convince themselves that they are somehow being noble by being cruel.

I've never asked for much out of society: a chance to make my way is about it. Along my journey I have seen that such a small request is quite onerous to others, though. I tried the rules laid down for us by our overlords: I spent the best years of my life paying huge amounts to ensure that I and those around me were well-insured; when the Bush/Obama recession hit, I was laid off and lost that insurance, less than a year before the heart issues began. Then I had no insurance, and worse, I was told that it was somehow my duty to pay for the insurance of others through the disaster known as Obamacare... which, of course, I was ineligible for because I didn't make enough.

But darn my hide, I survived. Inconsiderate, I guess.

Now I have people telling me that I shouldn't leave my home, because I might take up resources better spent elsewhere should I get sick... and the same people telling me that are making sure if I do leave my home out of necessity, I will need medical resources. I got on disability a scant 5 months ago... finally able to afford decent food... and suddenly I have to settle for whatever scraps are left. I literally had a WalMart employee physically confiscate three of the four rolls of paper towels I was trying to buy a week ago, because I supposedly didn't need that many.

Yeah, when others, younger and supposedly more valuable people were pushing out carts loaded with paper. I am allowed one roll.

I finally got a handicapped placard for my car two months ago... finally, I don't have to spend 30 minutes circling the parking lot trying to find a space close enough to let me get in and out, all the while ticking off the able-bodied around me. Now it's not worth the time it took to pick it up, because "social distancing" requires me to walk the entire length of a parking lot no matter where I park.

Now, before anyone jumps, I'm not feeling sorry for myself... I am feeling sorry for them. I am still here, still alive, and despite my shortcomings now, still able to do more than most who are young, vibrant, and able-bodied. I know how to work around my difficulties. No, I'm feeling sorry for the ones whose existence depends on having all the toilet paper, who panic at a bad cold, who have to have government telling them what to do. They'll be old too, one day, and they won't have nearly the advantages I have... they'll be like Logan, once the hunter, now the hunted, once productive, but now a burden to be thrown aside. I need a chance; they'll need help to do anything.

And the way I'm going, I'll be sitting there still, in pain probably, but still watching and laughing my butt off. This redneck don't get dead easy. Grim Reaper is gonna need to pack a lot of lunches when he sets his sights on me. I'd just rather keep what functioning bodily parts I still have functioning in the meantime.

TheRedneck