Hell / Sheol / Hades - Saved or Lost?

With the current morbid situation that we find ourselves in with COVID-19, it seems appropriate to share this post. I have watched Hell & Near Death Experience Testimonies in the past, but none have struck a chord quite as much as Bill Wiese's and I urge all readers to watch his Testimony(linked below).

As a believer, I have always struggled with some of the questions contained within Bill's testimony, and he does a fantastic job at linking scripture to his experience (vision of Hell).

As someone who has witnessed demonic possession in the past I wholeheartedly believe in the evil and darkness that Bill describes. Additionally, his description of Lord Jesus and the overcoming sensation upon hearing Jesus speak, he refers the same feeling as John mentions in Revelation 1:16 'fell as one dead' , also strikes a chord with me as I previously had a dream of meeting Jesus with a similar feeling. In this dream, it was as if I was in the spirit body and the purity and love emanating from Jesus caused me to fall on my face, leading me to automatically bow as such, and I felt impure and unworthy in his presence.

Video Link below:

Bill Wiese (Man Who Went To Hell) - 23 Minutes in Hell (Condensed)
www.youtube.com...

For those of you who would also like commentary:

Nov 23rd 1998 - Bill experiences Hell

Bill states that on this date he sleeps, only to have his spirit body dragged deep beneath the earth to Sheol.

Scripture to reference this kind of vision & man's spirit body:Pauls Revelation- 2 Corinthians 12:3:I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago was caught up to the third heaven. Whether it was in the body or out of it I do not know, but God knows

Ezekiel Chapter 8 -Ezekiel is picked up by his hair and travelled from Babylon to Jerusalem:
He stretched out what looked like a hand and took me by the hair of my head. The Spirit lifted me up between earth and heaven and in visions of God he took me to Jerusalem

You can travel in a vision, and the things experienced are just as real.

Spirit body reference - 1 Corinthians 15 44: It is sown in dishonor; it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness; it is raised in power. 44It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. 45So it is written: “The first man Adam became a living being;” the last Adam a life-giving spirit.…

The vision terrified Bill.

Scripture that illustrates grievous visions that can cause 'bones to shake - Isaiah speaks of such a vision in Isaiah 21:2: A dire vision is declared to me: “The traitor still betrays, and the destroyer still destroys. Go up, O Elam! Lay siege, O Media! I will put an end to all her groaning.” 3Therefore my body is filled with anguish. Pain grips me, like the pains of a woman in labor. I am bewildered to hear, I am dismayed to see.…

The above provide a scriptural basis for how this vision took place

Why should we know about such a torrid place, such as Hell?

Bill goes on to list 3 reasons as to why we should know of this experience:
1. If people were to realise how SEVERE Hell is , it helps to provide us with more appreciation of salvation.
2. It enables us to walk more in the fear of the Lord, Proverbs 16:6: By mercy and truth iniquity is purged: and by the fear of the LORD men depart from evil.
3. It causes all of us to have more passion for the lost and a desire to witness to those who do not believe and enables us to be more persuasive when sharing the gospel.

What did Bill see?
The Dungeon:
Upon first arriving, Bill landed in a prison cell in Hell. Similar to a dungeon, and he describes it as 'a rotten stinking prison cell'.

Scripture that supports Bill's dungeon description:
Isaiah 24:22: They will be gathered together like prisoners in a pit. They will be confined to a dungeon and punished after many days.
Proverbs 7:27: For she has brought many down to death; her slain are many in number. 27Her house is the road to Sheol, descending to the chambers of death.
Job 17:16: where then is my hope? Who can see any hope for me? 16Will it go down to the gates of Sheol? Will we go down together into the dust?”

The Heat:
One of the first thing that Bill notices on arrival in the cell is the SHEER HEAT, with it being so hot there that Bill wondered 'How can I be alive in this place'.

Void of ALL physical strength:
Bill also claimed to have no strength in his body, it was so much effort to even move, he was EXTREMELY weak.

Scripture that supports Bill's lack of strength in the vision:
Isaiah 14:9-10: Hell from beneath is moved for thee to meet thee at thy coming: it stirreth up the dead for thee, even all the chief ones of the earth; it hath raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations. 10 All they shall speak and say unto thee, Art thou also become weak as we? art thou become like unto us?
Psalms 88:4: For my soul is full of troubles, and my life draws near to Sheol. 4I am counted among those descending to the pit. I am like a man without strength. 5I am forsaken among the dead, like the slain who lie in the grave, whom You remember no more, who are cut off from Your care.…

In Acts, it is stated that we are only able to move through God's blessing to us. Acts 17:28: For in Him we live and move and have our being.’ As some of your own poets have said, ‘We are His offspring.

The Demons:
Bill looks up and immediately sees two enormous demons sharing his cell, they are escribed as 'reptilian, bumps and scales, claws of about a foot long, both about 12 and 13ft long'. They were both blaspheming against God and had a deep hatred for God.

Blasphemy comes from the Demonic realm, Revelation 13:6: The beast was given a mouth to speak arrogant and blasphemous words, and authority to act for 42 months. 6And the beast opened its mouth to blaspheme against God and slander His name and His tabernacle— those who dwell in heaven.


The demons directed their hatred for God towards Bill and begun to attack him, ripping him to pieces.

Scripture to support the spiritual body:
Bill describes the spiritual body as being a body that is able to withstand these torments. Matthew 10:28: 8Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Instead, fear the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.
Luke 16 mentions the rich man being SO thirsty in Hell, and mentions bodily parts. Luke 16:19-31: ‘Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.’

Bill then also notices that there is no blood or water coming from the wounds. Leviticus 17:11: For the life of a creature is in the blood, and I have given it to you to make an atonement for your souls upon the altar, since it is the lifeblood that makes atonement. - there is no life in hell, so there's no blood.

No Water in Sheol:
Zechariah 9:11: As for you, because of the blood of My covenant, I will release your prisoners from the waterless pit - There is not a SINGLE DROP of water in the pit.

No Mercy:
The demons there had no mercy for Bill. The mercy of the lord is on those that fear him and they do not fear him in hell, so there is no benefit of Mercy.

Darkness in Hell:
Bill believes that God illuminated his vision initially so that Bill was able to see his surroundings, but afterwards God withdrew this light to reveal the true darkness of Hell.

Lamentations 3:6: He has besieged me and surrounded me with bitterness and hardship. 6He has made me dwell in darkness like those dead for ages. 7He has walled me in so I cannot escape; He has weighed me down with chains.…Jude 1:13: They are wild waves of the sea, foaming up their own shame; wandering stars, for whom blackest darkness has been reserved forever.

Bill goes on to claim that it's not just a visible (or invisible) blackness or darkness, but it is SO DARK there that it can be FELT because of the evil and wickedness within. Exodus states of such a darkness that can be felt. Exodus 10:21: And the LORD said to Moses, Stretch out your hand toward heaven, that there may be darkness over the land of Egypt, even darkness which may be felt.

Bill describes the darkness as a darkness that penetrates every cell in your body..

The Raging Pit of Fire
After the distress of the demonic attack, and witnessing of the Heat, the Thirst, the Lack of Mercy, the Darkness, Bill was then taken out of the cell to a large raging pit of fire. Psalms 11:6: Upon the wicked he shall rain snares, fire and brimstone, and an horrible tempest: this shall be the portion of their cup.

According to Bill, people were burning and screaming in this fire. The flesh was hanging off of their bones, with the screams being SO loud - and you cannot escape the screams, alike the other pains these are also eternal.

Peace of Mind:
Surprise, surprise… Peace of Mind is also a blessing from God which is not present in Sheol. Isaiah 57:20-21: - But the wicked are like the storm-tossed sea, for it cannot be still, and its waves churn up mire and muck. 21“There is no peace,” says my God, “for the wicked.”.

Isn't it fast becoming obvious, that all of the good that we experience in this World, is a blessing from our Creator and Holy Father?

Eternal Feeling:
Bill talks of an inherent understanding when in this vision that there is an 'eternal feeling', knowing that he will never leave (this is also in line with other Hell or Near Death Experience Testimonies') - Bill knew that he was unable to say goodbye to loved ones, and they do not know that you still exist.

A great line from Bill in the Testimony: 'Death does not mean ceasing to exist, it means separation from God. You still exist, you're just deep down within the earth. 49 scriptures that mention where the current Sheol / Hell is located. He knew this as well because he descended to get there, and ascended to get out.

Here's one. Ezekiel 26:20: then I will bring you down with those who descend to the Pit, to the people of antiquity. I will make you dwell in the earth below like the ancient ruins, with those who descend to the Pit, so that you will no longer be inhabited or set in splendor in the land of the living.

Bill had a complete understanding that he would not return, an eternal feeling. There is no hope of someone to rescue you.

Job 7:9: As a cloud vanishes and is gone, so he who goes down to Sheol will never rise again

Levels of Punishment
Much alike to the eternal feeling, Bill also understood there were different degrees of punishment, and levels to hell.

Jesus says in Matthew 23:14: Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you devour the houses of widows, and as a pretext are praying at great length. Because of this, you shall receive greater condemnation. …
Matthew 10:15:Truly I tell you, it will be more bearable for Sodom and Gomorrah on the day of judgment than for that town.
Hebrews 10:29: How much more severely do you think one deserves to be punished who has trampled on the Son of God, profaned the blood of the covenant that sanctified him, and insulted the Spirit of grace?

ALL levels are more horrendous than our minds can conceive in this World.

Isolation:
Bill describes wanting to talk to someone, almost as companionship in such a dire incomprehensible situation as there is pleasure in conversation but describes being kept far apart. Even when Bill saw all of the other souls in the pit burning, they were kept at a distance and so isolated.

No purpose, no destiny:
There is no purpose, and no destiny in Hell … Just a completely useless wasting away.

Ecclesiastes 9:10: Whatever you find to do with your hands, do it with all your might, for in Sheol, where you are going, there is no work or planning or knowledge or wisdom.

Ecclesiastes 6:4: For he enters in futility and departs in darkness, and his name is shrouded in obscurity.

The Stench:
'The stench is so foul and putrid, the absolute worst odours imaginable, worse than any open sewer x 1000! '

Jesus rebuked foul spirits in Mark 9:25: "When Jesus saw that a crowd was running to the scene, he rebuked the impure spirit. 'You deaf and mute spirit,' he said, 'I command you, come out of him and never enter him again.'"
Demons have a disgusting foul odour to them, Add to that, the smell of burning flesh & smell of burning sulphur -Sulphur Dioxide (Brimstone) can be so toxic to breathe in that it can kill you - in Hawaii for example (and other Volcano spots) people are not allowed past certain parts of the volcano because of this.

Struggling to Breathe
'There's this foul Brimstone smell that you are breathing in, but worse than that there is no air to breathe, you have to fight for every breathe, to breathe in a tiny bit of oxygen. Bill mentions he was struggling for breath'

Isaiah 42:5:Thus says God the LORD— He who created the heavens and stretched them out, who spread out the earth and its offspring, who gives breath to the people on it and life to those who walk in it - In Sheol, you are not living on earth, or walking in it, you are UNDER the earth, therefore this is another blessing that is taken away.

Sleep Deprivation:
Alike the Earth, you need to sleep in Hell, Bill was only there 23 minutes, but describes it feeling like 23 weeks. 'Imagine staying up for 2 nights without sleeping, you aren't rejuvenated, your body hasn't recovered, you're pretty much a wreck right? In Hell you also need to sleep but you never get to sleep.'

Scripture to support the lack of rest:
Revelation 14:11: And the smoke of their torment will rise forever and ever. Day and night there will be no rest for those who worship the beast and its image, or for anyone who receives the mark of its name.
Isaiah 57:20: - But the wicked are like the storm-tossed sea, for it cannot be still, and its waves churn up mire and muck.

Rest is a blessing from God. Psalms 127:2: 'the Lord gives his beloved sleep'

Maggots / Worms:
Bill mentions being in a bed of maggots crawling over everything. Jesus 'Where there worm dies not' - Isaiah 14:11: maggots are spread out beneath you, and worms cover you.

If a dead animal is eaten by maggots, once the flesh is consumed the maggots die, which is why Jesus says ' where there worm dies not' , because the flesh is never fully consumed in Hell.

Job 24:20: 'The maggot will feed sweetly upon thee'

Hunger:
Never experience food in Hell.

Thirsty:
Luke 16 mentions the rich man being SO thirsty in Hell, and mentions bodily parts. Luke 16:19-31: ‘Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.’

Fear & Terror:
'When I was 17 years old, I used to surf a lot. I grew up in Fort Lauderdale, Florida. We used to surf on Cocoa Beach. There were about 100 guys out one day. It was a big day. We were all having a great time and suddenly the guy next to me got his leg torn off by a shark. Now there was a frenzy of sharks. The paper said they were tiger sharks. There was blood all over the water. I remember, I was on a 9 foot board and I got up on my knees as the shark passed under my board. It was longer than the board. It came back and bit my board in half. Now I was swimming in the water with my buddy. He was knocked off his board too. Then the shark came back and grabbed my leg and pulled me down under the water.

Now you can imagine the fear I felt at that moment. Right? You can kind of relate to that. I can tell you in life there’s not much more fearful than that. Well, that fear that I felt at that moment paled in comparison with what you feel in hell. It won’t even register. Psalms 73:18-19 says, “You cast them down into destruction where they’re utterly consumed with terrors” and this terror lasts for all eternity. Praise God. God had mercy on me. The shark opened its mouth and let me go. That’s a miracle of God. It’s a miracle. Even more of a miracle, I looked and I didn’t have a mark in my leg. That’s impossible. Once they grab your leg, you know it pierces it. God was really watching over me then and I was not even a Christian then, but I got saved immediately after that, praise God. Thank God for His mercy.'

WHY WOULD GOD MAKE SUCH A TERRIBE PLACE?

Matthew 25:41: “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. - Hell was prepared for the devil and his angels, this place was not prepared for man. The word 'prepared' is specifically used, the same way in John 14:2: 'to prepare a place for us in heaven'.

James 1:17: - "Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning." - ALL GOOD that we enjoy in life comes from God, they are blessings from God and not automatic.

In preparation for Hell , God withdraws His blessings, goodness or attributes.

Hell is dark because 1 John 1:5: God is lightThere is only death in Hell because John 1:4: God is lifeThere is only hatred in Hell because 1 John 4:16: God is love
There is no mercy in Hell because Psalms 36:5: the mercy of the Lord is in the HeavensThere is no strength in hell because Psalms 18:32: the Lord gives us strength
There is no water in Hell because Deuteronomy 11:11: water is the rain of Heaven
There is no peace in Hell because Isaiah 9:6: He is the Prince of Peace

If God removes himself from the situation, all the good goes with him. Can't have the good without God, AND you can't separate the two.

If you live a life where you don't want anything to do with God - this is a place without Him.

Although the Fire in Hell does represent God's wrath - all through scripture it says he will pour out his wrath on sin in the form of fire.

Jesus our Lord and Saviour. God has given us his only Begotten Son to save us from Hell:
Here's where Jesus comes in, God poured out this wrath on Jesus on the cross. So if you believe in him dying for our sins, you can let Jesus take that Wrath, or you can take that Wrath.

Bill mentions during this torrid time in this vision, a Bright Light appeared, and Bill immediately knew it was Jesus. The light was brighter, whiter and holier than any light he had ever seen.

At seeing Jesus and hearing his voice, Bill mentions he immediately Fell on his face in the overwhelming sense of love - Revelation 1:16: his countenance was as bright as the Sun, and he fell as one dead'

Because he went to the Cross, he didn't have to go to that horrible place. Jesus suffered a horrible death on the cross so that we wouldn't have to go to Hell.

Bill felt entirely hopeless, eternal hopelessness. Isaiah 38:18: those who go down to the pit have no hope for the truth, because it's too late.

HOW CAN A LOVING GOD SEND A GOOD PERSON TO HELL?

Good does not get you to heaven. A man's standard of Good, and God's are two different things … one foolish thought is a sin excluding us from heaven - Proverbs 24:9
Job 15:16: man is so filthy he drinks iniquity like water

Getting to heaven is not about being Good, it's about a relationship with Jesus Christ

An analogy that Bill uses 'A person walks to the biggest house in the neighbourhood knocks on the door and says they are moving in because they are a good person.' What would the home owner do? You wouldn't expect them to let you in because you have NO RELATIONSHIP.

How can you expect to go through whole life, have nothing to do with God, Deny Jesus is the Son of God, and then demand to live in his house because you are a 'good person'. What does good have to do with it, you don't know him!

God offers to be our father time and time again, yet we push him away. God is our creator until we invite him in through accepting Lord Jesus Chris as our saviour , then he becomes our father - Galatians 3:26, John 1:12 , Romans 7, 8 & 9.

Another Analogy Bill uses of getting to heaven. Imagine he was hosting a dinner party, and you are given directions to his house, specific directions and they are the ONLY way to get to his house. Then YOU decide to take your own route, you're not going to get to his house. Follow clear directions to get to his house, he wants us to come to his house, not keep us out.

GOD GIVES CLEAR DIRECTIONS TO HEAVEN:

John 3:36: "Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life; whoever does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God remains on him.
Luke 13:3: - I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish.
Romans 10:9-10: 9 If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved.
John 14:6: Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

All unbelievers shall have their part in the lake of fire.

Revelation 20:15: And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.Saved or Lost - Your Choice

Our souls are eternal, because God made us in his image Genesis 1:27: So God created human beings in his own image. In the image of God he created them; male and female he created them.

fabulous dude...

Jesus said more about hell than heaven so I'll just go see that video....nice writing....a huge post

a reply to: GBP/JPY

Thanks. I actually realised he documented it in a text version around 3/4 of the way in, but it's the information that's Key. Hopefully the format is helpful as well.

a reply to: HallowedEarth
NDE's, visions, oobe's and so on are unreliable except MAYBE comparatively. People typically experience what confirms their beliefs, or they interpret the experience to confirm their beliefs. There have also been those who lied about what they experienced for money and fame like The boy who came back from heaven who actually did not come back from heaven.

If you want to believe in Jesus, then do so, but shun the charlatans and metaphysical mumbo-jumbo. You don't need either to bolster your faith.

a reply to: HallowedEarth

Wow... I guess I’m supposed to share this. We watched a story of a NDE last night and was blown a way. And now today I see your post.

I usually not much of NDE guy, but this guy seems genuine. Check him out
Id not hear of him before... Ian McCormack
Interview


His testimony: From 2018

originally posted by: Klassified
a reply to: HallowedEarth
NDE's, visions, oobe's and so on are unreliable except MAYBE comparatively. People typically experience what confirms their beliefs, or they interpret the experience to confirm their beliefs. There have also been those who lied about what they experienced for money and fame like The boy who came back from heaven who actually did not come back from heaven.

If you want to believe in Jesus, then do so, but shun the charlatans and metaphysical mumbo-jumbo. You don't need either to bolster your faith.

As much as it pains me, (not really) I have to agree with Klass here
Plenty of charlatans and people chasing a buck with a book deal
Strikes me as a charlatan as well



This hell scenario sounds like a study in Scientology, Mormonism or something like that
God didn’t reveal everything, there is mystery and this Wiese has each and every answer.
Some doesn’t align biblically in my opinion

And humans are not eternal, ate from the tree of knowledge but not the fruit from the tree of life, God removed us from eden before that could happen.
Humans are sustained in Jesus not eternal. You quoted as much

Hell is a 404 for the following reasons:

1. There is no mention of Hell in God’s Creation of the Cosmos - therefore, Hell is apparently uncreated by God or anyone else. See Genesis 1:1, Isaiah 65:17, Jeremiah 7:31, 19:5. John 1:3 explicitly states that God made all, and that no other person or agency made anything. To back that up, the Bible contains many instances of “heaven and earth” paired together as a term…without “hell.”

2. In the first chapter of Genesis, it is stated six times that God saw that what He had made was good, excluding Hell as being possible, as the Creation could not have been wholly good had Hell been in existence. See Genesis 1:10,12,18,21,25,31.

3. The Creation as described in Genesis is properly a hierarchy, not a dualistic Heaven versus Hell – with the Earth and humans as a contested prize, fought over by God and Satan. See Genesis 1:1, Job 1 & 2, John 1:3, Philippians 2:10, Revelation 5:13.

4. God made both good and evil, for the same Hand that planted the Tree of Life surely also planted the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil. Therefore, Satan did not make or create evil. See Genesis 2:9, Isaiah 45:7, Lamentations 3:38, Amos 3:6.

5. The Bible makes no connection between Satan and Hell, so Satan is NOT the Prince of Hell. See Job 1:6-7, 2:1-2, Zechariah 3:1-2, Revelation 2:13, 12:9.

6. The prince of Tyre in Ezekiel 28 is not Satan, as it specifically refers to him as a man. See Ezekiel 26 - 28.

7. The Law God gave to Moses warned of death, but did not specify punishment in Hell, or warn of it. Punishments were delivered in the real world, and the most severe was simple death. See Genesis 2:17, Exodus through Deuteronomy, Romans 6:23.

8. Nearly all the consequences of human disobedience to God are worked out in the real, here-and-now world – not in Hell. This includes death, destruction, perishing, God’s wrath and His cursings. See Deuteronomy 28:15-68, 30:19, Ezekiel 32:32, Romans 13:4. The only exception is the banishment of the unrighteous to the Lake of Fire – but that is for their ultimate salvation, otherwise Death cannot be defeated and God cannot become All in all...as we see in First Corinthians 15.

9. All people die, but none of them go to Eternal Conscious Torment – only to the grave or pit. See every instance of personal death in the Bible, with “hell” (if present) properly replaced with “sheol” or “hades,” as so often noted in the marginal or center-column reference.

10. For the Hebrews, “sheol,” hidden, covered and unknown, was the state, condition or place of the dead. It was where the body returned to the dust and the spirit returned to God (Who gave it). See Genesis 3:19, Ecclesiastes 12:7.

11. Eternal Conscious Torment depends on the concept of the Immortality of the Soul, and that comes, not from the Bible, but from Greek philosophy, from Socrates and Plato. It is clearly pagan.

12. Hell, by definition, opposes the Gospel (the Good News) because Hell can only be Bad News for those sent there – and thus, for most of living (and dead) humanity.

13. Hell violates God’s Law, specifically the Law of the Jubilee, which sets all those in servitude free. Those who die are freed from sin, as prophesied by the Law of the Jubilee. See Leviticus 25:8-13, Isaiah 1:18, Romans 6:7,16.

14. The idea of damnation of people to Hell is at least absurd, and possibly blasphemous, due to the presence of God’s Spirit of Life in each of us. See Genesis 1:26-27, 2:7,3:19, Ecclesiastes 12:7.

15. Hell, like Babylon, is confusion. Hell is hot, but it’s also cold as…Hell. Hell is bright with fire, but it is dark. Hell is separation from God, but Mary K Baxter depicts Jesus touring Hell, chiding the damned. To go to Hell, you must be dead, but to be in Eternal Conscious Torment, you must be alive, but you’re dead, and on and on… Fictional descriptions of Hell, especially as seen in the works of Dante, Milton and Baxter, are clearly fictional and un-Biblical.

16. God’s plan for the wicked is to destroy their wickedness, not to destroy them or send them to Hell. See Psalm 1:6, 7:9, Isaiah 1:18, Jeremiah 3:12, Habakkuk 1:12, Philippians 3:21, Hebrews 10:26-27.

17. God speaks of ransoming/redeeming ALL from death and the grave – without exception. See Psalm 49:15, Ezekiel 16:55, Romans 6:23, Ephesians 1:10.

18. God is both willing AND able to save all. Given that He is omnipotent, we can ALL look forward with confidence to our eventual salvation. See Psalm 49:15, 86:13, 103:8-14, 136, Isaiah 1:18, 6:7, 25:7-8, 26:19, 33:24, 43:25, 44:22, 45:8, 55:8-9, 57:16, 64:6-9, Jeremiah 3:12. Lamentations 3:26-32, Ezekiel 11:19, 16:55, Hosea 13:14, Micah 4:5, 7:18-19, Ephesians 1:10, Philipians 3:21, Colossians 1:19-20, I Thessalonians 1:10, I Timothy 1:15, 2:4-6, 4:10, 6:13, II Peter 3:9.

19. God compares Himself to a cleansing or refining agent – usually as fire, but sometimes as soap. Therefore, all instances of supernatural fire should be interpreted as being for refining and/or purification, not damnation. Fire in the Bible is never Hellfire, but natural fire or God’s Fire. See Malachi 3:2-3, Matthew 3:10-12, I Corinthians 3:15.

20. If God’s Fire is for baptism and refining, then that which is burned must be our carnal, sinful nature. It is symbolized by unfruitful trees, tares, chaff, wood, hay and stubble – by anything unable to endure the Fire. See Matthew 3:10-12, I Corinthians 3:11-15.

21. “Hell” is used in the King James Version (and others) to replace four other words: “Sheol,” “Hades,” “Gehenna” and “Tartarus.” None of these refer to a place of damnation or Eternal Conscious Torment. See any decent dictionary, especially the Oxford English Dictionary.

22. When we dig out mistranslations and peel away misinterpretations, we find that Hell is an imposition, an insertion into the text. With Hell so deconstructed, the Bible and God are both silent on Hell. See Numbers 23:19, John 14:2.

23. Christians should not follow the Hell of the ancient, pagan religions, such as the “Hel” we find in Norse mythology, but follow the truth of God’s Word, which does not contain either the concept of Hell or even the word “hell,” except in imperfect translations.

originally posted by: Raggedyman
originally posted by: Klassified

Raggedyman: And humans are not eternal, ate from the tree of knowledge but not the fruit from the tree of life, God removed us from eden before that could happen. Humans are sustained in Jesus not eternal. You quoted as much

What do you mean 'humans are sustained in Jesus not eternal' . The spirit that animates the body is eternal. Eden is a fairy tale; Jesus was a 9 dimensional being stepped down in frequency to help those living in hopeless poverty/tyranny in the middle east. It was a planned insertion of an "IDEA" to uplift humanity. It worked beyond all of our wildest dreams. There was one unexpected outcome. Christ Consciousness was supposed to outlast/overtake any other inserts that should (by now) have failed but took root. Now there are multiple religious factions within Islam at war (Sunnis, Shia) competing for the self righteous acclaim to being the only truth. At least the Mormons and the Catholics are not shelling each other. What a mess.

originally posted by: HallowedEarth
Why should we know about such a torrid place, such as Hell?
Bill goes on to list 3 reasons as to why we should know of this experience:
1. If people were to realise how SEVERE Hell is , it helps to provide us with more appreciation of salvation.
2. It enables us to walk more in the fear of the Lord, Proverbs 16:6: By mercy and truth iniquity is purged: and by the fear of the LORD men depart from evil.
3. It causes all of us to have more passion for the lost and a desire to witness to those who do not believe and enables us to be more persuasive when sharing the gospel.

Why would you want to walk in fear of the Lord? Are you a masochist or do you feel you are unworthy of love? This experience is unique to his/Bill's belief system. He/Bill created it. It is not your experience unless you buy into his/Bill's belief system. There is no Hell unless you create such a destination to your liking; thereby YOU create HELL for yourself to experience once you transcend this existence (why would you do this). The mind is powerful. Many religions would like for you to think there is a purgatory or Hell awaiting the sinners of something intangible; come to them for salvation. None of it true. Create Heaven instead, it is just as viable and not fear based but the opposite: LOVE based.

a reply to: vethumanbeing

We have a different opinion, deal with it

originally posted by: Raggedyman
a reply to: vethumanbeing

We have a different opinion, deal with it

We do? If so did not recognize it, I am a playful personality (not combative) not needing to deal with any serious issues unless you require some 'enlightenment' tips?

a reply to: vethumanbeing

I am not here to argue and you are welcome to your opinion
If you say something based on historical accepted fact I disagree with, I will ask for evidence
If it’s based on a faith statement then there is no evidence required, you have an opinion, welcome to it
You think Paul was the devil, great
I think he was amazing

I just think you are baiting and I can’t argue your faith

originally posted by: Raggedyman
a reply to: vethumanbeing

I am not here to argue and you are welcome to your opinion
If you say something based on historical accepted fact I disagree with, I will ask for evidence
If it’s based on a faith statement then there is no evidence required, you have an opinion, welcome to it
You think Paul was the devil, great I think he was amazing
I just think you are baiting and I can’t argue your faith

Historical evidence is Jello to my soul as it melts in the sunlight of scrutiny. I have no belief systems in place. I know that Paul created a thing called something that Jesus would have denounced as "NOT MY MINISTRY". Paul very specifically identified it as his "Church". Why would I bait an innocent that does not know the truth. That would be unkind. Jesus was an Essene. Paul is the direct opposite: a misogynistic misanthrope.

a reply to: vethumanbeing

I disagree deal with it

originally posted by: Raggedyman
a reply to: vethumanbeing

I disagree deal with it

"Deal with it" is not exactly what anyone would call a persuasive argument OK: "YOU WIN" style. If you wont elaborate I will be left to imagine things about you that may be untrue, or confabulate unflattering portraits regarding your education to others who may be listening, lie and or generally besmirch your past lives characters, pets and any living second cousins. No one you care about is safe from the consequences of your idle 'deal making'.

a reply to: vethumanbeing

Meh, is that it
Cool, I can live with that

originally posted by: Raggedyman
a reply to: vethumanbeing

Meh, is that it
Cool, I can live with that

Raggedy~Thanks so much for playing; I had fun tonight you are swell!

a reply to: Klassified

NDE's & Hell Testimonies aren't usually my thing and I am always sceptical, so i agree with you there. However I do believe Bill's account for a few reasons:
1. I have had a similar out of body dream experience with who i believe to be Jesus. The voice spoke to every cell in my body, and it wasn't a typical dream per se, in the fact that i also felt like i was in my spiritual body and immediately fell onto my face (almost worshipping) which is mentioned by Paul in Revelation 1:16: 'When I saw Him, I fell at His feet like a dead man'.
2. I have witnessed someone being possessed, speaking in a dark hoarse tone and the evil presence felt was like nothing i knew in this world. After that experience i realised how naive i was prior to witnessing it, as I never knew there to be evil like that in the world.
3. Bill's supporting scripture makes sense to me and how i have been studying the Word.

Maybe I am lucky in the fact that I have had these experiences, but Bill's account certainly doesn't bolster my faith, rather it helped to answer a number of questions I had previously had around God's love for us in relation to Hell. For the past 12-18 months or so I have been reading and studying scripture daily.

I think another problem with these kind of testimonies is the fact that as you mentioned, there are charlatans, that potentially discredit all NDE & Hell Testimonies. After all the Afterlife seems to be a hot (literal) topic that sells. And the problem Bill faces is that if he didn't have an audience, it would mean he isn't preaching it well enough and the story isn't convincing. But on the flip side, if it is received well and popular, he's a profiteer and a charlatan.

Also, if anything I do not think Bill discredits the message of the Bible, actually he is encouraging people to live in the Spirit, and have a relationship with our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. I follow Bill on Youtube and constantly uploads teachings of the Bible outside of the Hell arena and he seems legit to me, everything is always backed up by scripture. Matthew 13:9-16: 'Whoever has ears, let them hear'.

I encourage everyone to read scripture but in the times that we currently find ourselves in, maybe it is worth learning about what we face after death, especially if it for eternity?