USA & Israel's Ugly Past - Did You Forget They Are State Sponsors of Terror?

Originally posted by 00PS

OK Even assuming what you say is true and not doctored in any way or transformed to suite the mindset of extreme individuals - then, according to your definition the only people not guilty of terrorism are probably the Tahiti and Micronasia - I think I herd of a story that a policeman in one of these Isalnds arrested a local and forgot him in the holding cell for a month.
So I guess to define terrorism we need to be a bit more specific and not generalize the definition to include just about every country on this god forsaken rock we call Earth.

The point is not 'who isn't guilty of being a State Sponsor of Terrorism. The pointis that The USA and ISRAEL are not accused publicly or scrutinized by their allies. That they can get away with it and it not even be in our own history books is a farce in the name of freedom and liberty.

Sure many countries have terror within their borders. But the USA and ISRAEL are different in that they Sponsor it across borders and they are supposed to be Developed Countries (Israel is still developing in many ways though)

Once again I suggest you read the whole post so we don't have repititious arguements that kill discussion. We are not talking about 'terrorism' we are talking about State Sponsorship of Terror. Don't know the difference? REview the last 2 pages before this one.

Sabra and Shtila is not stae sponsored terrorism since the Phalages did not kill the Palestinians as part of a strategic act of targeting civilain population it was revenge in a civil war were Christians were killed and killed as well as muslims - WAR IS HELL and it is not something that one engages in willingly - Unless it is a religious obligation (i.e. Jihad). Remeber that in spite of Sabra and Shatila the Lebanese Christian majority became a minority following that civil war.

Originally posted by General Zapata

Originally posted by JudahMaccabbi
I think I sensed a bit of racism there:

and then you talk about apartheid? That seems to be contradictory don't you think?
apartheid: n. racial segregation and discrimination (in South Africa).

Fisrt off, Jews and Arabs are Semitic therefore race has nothing to do with it. The difference is religion. How many Arab countries are there? How many Muslim countries are there? How many Christian countries are there? How many Jewish countries? Yet Israel is the problem?

why would I be a racist? I didnt even use the word jew OR semitic in my post. by the way, i am an arab, and have been the victim of racism, so I'm the last person likely to be a racist. I have no problem with the israeli people. For the most part, the moderate (ie non-radical zionists) are good, hardworking people. However, that does not stop Israel from being an illegitimate state, born of violence and theft against the palestinians.

Of course you are Arab- The whole Zionist 9/11 conspiracy serves the Arabs to steer away the responsibility of 9/11 from Arabs to - Hey why not the Jews - The Zionists - How convienient for you? Blame those pesty, evil, theiving Zionists. Yes its much more logial that 15 million Jews have more power that 1 billion Muslims with much of the world's Oil and money.
Hey if that makes you feel better with yourself feel free to lie to yourself.

Originally posted by General Zapata
why would I be a racist? I didnt even use the word jew OR semitic in my post. by the way, i am an arab, and have been the victim of racism, so I'm the last person likely to be a racist.

That's not exactly a good statement. In fact most targets of racism become agents themselves.

just to let you know...

Why is it that anyone who criticizes Israel is anti-Semitic? I thought Arabs were also Semitic people...

And as for 15 million Israelis or Jews (can't remember which was referenced) against 1 billion Muslims, wouldn't the chosen people of God be more than able to stand up to them?

Seriously, though. I agree that the US and Israel sponsor terror. Though this is something of a sidenote, it's public that Israel sponsors white slavery right now! And forget about the ill-equiped Palestinians who have been bulldozed, blown to smithereens, etc. And, Oops, I think I have a couple more examples for you...

I'll bring sources later because I'm drunk and I don't feel like posting them now. There was an Israeli troop who shot a young Palestinian girl dead. Afterwards, he riddled the body with bullets. But, it was OK because the girl was supposedly dead already.

At a checkpoint, Israeli troops made a Palestinian man play his fiddle for them. This was a big deal because it was reminiscent of what Nazis did to Jews at checkpoints. However, the people weren't upset because of the incident; they were upset because it was an insult to Jews that they did this to the man.

Our US govt (the CIA to be exact) molded Bin Laden into a terrorist and funded him. They also funded Al-Qaeda. Bin Laden's CIA name is Tim Osmond.

Our govt has a document called Operation Northwoods, which authorizes the use of terror acts on US citizens as a means to get the country to go to unpopular wars.

Key elements in our govt orchestrated 9/11, easily the biggest terror attack of the new millenium yet.

Well, that's it for now. I'll be back with more sometime...

So Monkey Bomb... your entire defense is...hold on for this...

USA and Israel bad and it is so because I say so and thats it.

Well, very mature and well stated. Back up your statements with FACTS.

People, Oops is in a country that kills its citizens and then sends a bill for the bullet to the family. China sells weapons to North Korea, Libya, Syria, Iran. China very recently had forced abortions.

I don't fault you being unamerican oops. I fault you for being uninformed and then being angry at those who disagree with your uninformed thoughts. There is a phrase in America...

Those who live in glass houses should not throw rocks.

In America we are trying to admit and fix our faults. WE were gulity of many bad things. In China... well what are you doing to help the world?

Besides selling weapons to totalitarian regimes and tinhorn dictators I mean?

Booger, you are off topic and wrong.

Don't get me wrong, China is FAR from an angelic country. But we're not talking about them, this is about the US and ISRAEL. Again, the US and ISRAEL!!!

While we're talking about selling arms and such, did you forget that we have done the same thing on a number of occasions? Hell, Rumsfeld recently shipped nuclear reactors to CHINA, the very country you are lamenting here. Talk about throwing rocks from glass houses...

And the US is trying to admit to the wrongs done IN THE PAST??? Are you nuts? When has the US admitted that we focked up? I know Bush hasn't.

Again, people attempt to argue by pointing out the wrongs of others. Fine. Make your own thread. This thread is about...ah, screw it, you won't pay attention anyway.

Think what you will of this source, but www.jewwatch.com... has a good database of Israeli Atrocities. Also check out www.thememoryhole.org... for a good deal of 'forgotten' American activities such as Operation Northwoods. You guys need to get over your nationalism and realize that we aren't always the good guys here. Even if your 'scoial' studies teachers told you we were.

Booger, my geographic location does not prevent me from making well informed and logical statements

Facts? You should have read my first post. Thanks.

Originally posted by truthseeka
Why is it that anyone who criticizes Israel is anti-Semitic? I thought Arabs were also Semitic people...

Never once did I say anti-semitic - Get your facts straight - Read what is written and do not imagine things along the way - It weakens you argument.

Seriously, though. I agree that the US and Israel sponsor terror. Though this is something of a sidenote, it's public that Israel sponsors white slavery right now! And forget about the ill-equiped Palestinians who have been bulldozed, blown to smithereens, etc. And, Oops, I think I have a couple more examples for you...

white slavery? WHAT? Is that some kind of new fancy term cooked up by all those Zionist bashers who cannot live with an idea that JEWS have their own country? white slavery? What in the name of ALLAH is that? Excuse my ignorance and enlighten me.

I'll bring sources later because I'm drunk and I don't feel like posting them now.

There was an Israeli troop who shot a young Palestinian girl dead. Afterwards, he riddled the body with bullets. But, it was OK because the girl was supposedly dead already.

The Israeli officer shot at a 9 year old girl in Gaza because they were under attack - He thought that her bag was an explosive device and shot her dead. Palestinians have been found to use children as bombers on numerous occasions. The officer was arrested investigated and released I think after it was noted that he followed orders and protocols. Bad calls can be made in the army so long as it does not negate army protocol.
I myself am bothered by this incident but it is very different from the blowing up a children in a school bus, children in a bus-stop or children in a party.
Incidentally, just to set the record straight, to all you Jew haters - that officer was not Jewish but Druze (NOT THAT IT REALLY MATTERS) .

At a checkpoint, Israeli troops made a Palestinian man play his fiddle for them. This was a big deal because it was reminiscent of what Nazis did to Jews at checkpoints. However, the people weren't upset because of the incident; they were upset because it was an insult to Jews that they did this to the man.

This was a phony claim:
www1.idf.il...

Our govt has a document called Operation Northwoods, which authorizes the use of terror acts on US citizens as a means to get the country to go to unpopular wars.

Thanks for that interesting peice of information - I did not know that.

Key elements in our govt orchestrated 9/11, easily the biggest terror attack of the new millenium yet.

I do not believe that.

Originally posted by twitchy
Think what you will of this source, but www.jewwatch.com... has a good database of Israeli Atrocities. Also check out www.thememoryhole.org... for a good deal of 'forgotten' American activities such as Operation Northwoods. You guys need to get over your nationalism and realize that we aren't always the good guys here. Even if your 'scoial' studies teachers told you we were.

Its obvious that we are not always the good guys but when comparing the US or Israel to the Palestinians, Iraqis, Syrians, Iranians, Egyptians or Lebanese we are FAR FAR FAR FAR FAR better. We as Christians or Jews can criticize our religous openly - Muslims cannot do that (See SALMAN RUSHDIE). Freedom in the US and Israel is far better than that in any of the above nations.
We need to put things in perspective and deal with REAL issues and not minor technicalities and customized definitions of the word TERRORISM.

Regarding that jewwatch site - DISGRACE. No nation or religion is clean but concentrating all the sh*t one can find about a group (be it truth or a lie) is deplorable. Jews have been persecuted throughout the ages and with this filth on the web it seems that it will never end.

Originally posted by JudahMaccabbi

Originally posted by twitchy
Think what you will of this source, but www.jewwatch.com... has a good database of Israeli Atrocities. Also check out www.thememoryhole.org... for a good deal of 'forgotten' American activities such as Operation Northwoods. You guys need to get over your nationalism and realize that we aren't always the good guys here. Even if your 'scoial' studies teachers told you we were.

Its obvious that we are not always the good guys but when comparing the US or Israel to the Palestinians, Iraqis, Syrians, Iranians, Egyptians or Lebanese we are FAR FAR FAR FAR FAR better. We as Christians or Jews can criticize our religous openly - Muslims cannot do that (See SALMAN RUSHDIE). Freedom in the US and Israel is far better than that in any of the above nations.
We need to put things in perspective and deal with REAL issues and not minor technicalities and customized definitions of the word TERRORISM.

Regarding that jewwatch site - DISGRACE. No nation or religion is clean but concentrating all the sh*t one can find about a group (be it truth or a lie) is deplorable. Jews have been persecuted throughout the ages and with this filth on the web it seems that it will never end.

Gyspsies have been persecuted througout the ages ,but they didn't get a state and weapons of mass destruction from the Usa and Uk. That's why you don't see sites against gypsies like jewwatch. Because gypsies don't kill women and children in the name of self defense. Israelis are cowarding behind a concrete wall because they created an enemy through policies of hate.

But I guess blaming the Jews is easiler, they are only 15 million world wide and they have no oil.

They may be only 15 million but they hold disproportionate numbers of top tier positions in America. They control American foreign policy from the shadows and they sanction ridiculous amounts of financial aid from the American budget. Money which should be used to better the lives of and the future prosperity of the American people.