The Anti-Christian conspiracy

Originally posted by shaunybaby
am i wrong in saying that jesus told his disciples that he would return during 'their' lifetime?

it's been almost 2000 years, he ain't coming back!!

Christ is slowly returning back.

It will not happen all at once.

Originally posted by spamandham
The words were something like "this generation shall not pass". Apologists have invented several clever ways around this inconvenient morsel.

Those are the words I was refering to. I'm not quite sure how anyone can get passed that, as it is what it is. Jesus prophesised that he would return within the lifespan of his beloved disciples, yet he never returned and to this day has not.

Originally posted by AkashicWanderer
Christ is slowly returning back.

Yeah sure he is

I love the ambiguity of your answer, because one: it's not an answer, and two: it makes no sense, hence it's the perfect christian answer.

It will not happen all at once.

You're right in a way, as it won't 'happen all at once', however it also 'won't happen at all'.

Your faith in jesus coming back to earth is the same faith as people have in elvis that still believe he's not dead.

Like the peolpe who believe elvis is not actually dead, you need to get over the fact that jesus isn't coming back.

Your faith in jesus coming back to earth is the same faith as people have in elvis that still believe he's not dead.

I never said anything about Jesus coming back to earth.

Jesus was a physical being, Christ is not.

Originally posted by AkashicWanderer
I never said anything about Jesus coming back to earth.

Jesus was a physical being, Christ is not.

well jesus is the one who said he was coming back, hence he's the one who should be coming back, sorry if it's confusing.

why are you making jesus seperate from this character 'christ' who is actually coming back then?

another perfect christian answer that's extremely vague and makes no sense whatsoever.

Originally posted by shaunybaby
well jesus is the one who said he was coming back, hence he's the one who should be coming back, sorry if it's confusing.

At times the bible should not be interpreted literally. It is a book to be read under meditation, and the words should not be taken at face value.

why are you making jesus seperate from this character 'christ' who is actually coming back then?

Jesus was the name of the physical man who incarnated the Christ.

OH,, Lets not forget about the Prophecy !!!!!!!!!!!!!

There was several Prophecy Talked about during the time that Jesus was alive and several more came in after his Death.. I think the most of the Prophecy Came out of the last Book of the Bible...

Most people think that last book was inspired by John, But it was inspired By Jesus told to John so he could write it down..

I can see why all along people have though the times were always near, so mush, they have though that all of the Prophecy's were just so weird and not Possible, But Now we can see then as clear as Glass when they show up..

I Think that the last prophecy that has came about was in 1967 or 68 When Israel became a country of it own again and Jerusalem became the Capital again after 2200 years scattered all over the world.......

[edit on 06/29/2005 by jfdarby]

No you may have not condemned what I said but you judge, and by-the-way,attacked me personally by calling me a self-righteous and better then anyone else., and as far as assuming, if you know the Holy Bible as well as you say, then you would not have called me a prohet. I am not a seerer, otherwords, a prohet. And if you get this attitude from what I have said, then according to the bible, you have just judge and condemned me to hell, like all the christian churches do. And knowing the Holy Bible, you would know that Jesus doesn't tolerate this.

And as far as stating all christians have this attitude, you are totoally wrong. I am a christan, because I believe in Christ. But I am not going to try to save anyones soul or whatever. If you knew me personally and went to church faithfully, you would see me as a non-believer, as most of the christian people I know do. I was born going to a christian congregation and babtised another. So as far as being afraid to see or know the truth, I am not afraid because I have seen it in my dreams and in this world and it is a lot uglier than what christian churches teach. The bible isn't my only source of information. Try reading satan's bible. Or is this the real bible you speak of? And like the Alcoholics, faith has pulled me through. I do realize what I said about the only thing getting me through the day is faith in Jesus, because I was raised to believe in Jesus Christ the way most christians are, but didn't believe what they were saying. I felt and still do sometimes that I must be a child of satan myself. But faith in Jesus keeps me going. And somehow someway I will do my best to teach what the Holy bible says and not what the leaders teach.

And most important, this thread is about christianity, anti or for, so it is about Jesus. Anything to do with christianity has to do with Jesus. And there is someone in here that seems to understand christianity, JFdarby. Crist is christianity, Jesus is Christ, and Jesus is God.

Originally posted by karie

No you may have not condemned what I said but you judge, and by-the-way,attacked me personally by calling me a self-righteous and better then anyone else., and as far as assuming, if you know the Holy Bible as well as you say, then you would not have called me a prohet. I am not a seerer, otherwords, a prohet. And if you get this attitude from what I have said, then according to the bible, you have just judge and condemned me to hell, like all the christian churches do. And knowing the Holy Bible, you would know that Jesus doesn't tolerate this.

And as far as stating all christians have this attitude, you are totally wrong. I am a christan, because I believe in Christ. But I am not going to try to save anyones soul or whatever. If you knew me personally and went to church faithfully, you would see me as a non-believer, as most of the christian people I know do. I was born going to a christian congregation and babtised another. So as far as being afraid to see or know the truth, I am not afraid because I have seen it in my dreams and in this world and it is a lot uglier than what christian churches teach. The bible isn't my only source of information. Try reading satan's bible. Or is this the real bible you speak of? And like the Alcoholics, faith has pulled me through. I do realize what I said about the only thing getting me through the day is faith in Jesus, because I was raised to believe in Jesus Christ the way most christians are, but didn't believe what they were saying. I felt and still do sometimes that I must be a child of satan myself. But faith in Jesus keeps me going. And somehow someway I will do my best to teach what the Holy bible says and not what the leaders teach.

And most important, this thread is about christianity, anti or for, so it is about Jesus. Anything to do with christianity has to do with Jesus. And there is someone in here that seems to understand christianity, JFdarby. Crist is christianity, Jesus is Christ, and Jesus is God.

And you did say word for word Paul was the founder.

[edit on 12-11-2005 by karie]

See this is what I am talking about, an example of how christianity has been taught wrongly. Someone mentioned that Jesus promised His disciples that He would return in their lifetime. Well first of all, and if I am wrong someone point the way, I don't recall Jesus ever saying this in the Bible. The closest thing I found was in John 14 where Jesus's disciples were told by Him that he goes and prepares a place for them and will return for them and other believers. Doesn't mention their lifetime. Also in John 14:19 "A little while longer and the world will see Me no longer, but you will see Me. Because I live, you will live also." Here He tells His diciples that they will see Him after He is resurrected. And that was fullfilled.

Here are some scriptures to support that.
Matthew 28:9 "And as they went to tell His disciples, behold Jesus met them..."
Mark 16:14 "later He appeared to the eleven....."
Luke 24:15 "....Jesus Himself drew near and went with them."

So see Jesus did return to His disciples after His death and resurrection and appeared in the form they new Him as.

Also, Christ is coming with power to destroy the wicked system of things.

"For the Lord Himself shall descend from heaven with a shout..." 1thessalonians 4:13-17
"Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him..."Revlations 1:7
Christ isn't returning slowly, He is coming quickly and not very subtle.

[edit on 12-11-2005 by karie]

ELVIS is not dead and here is the proof if you rearrange letters in his name it makes LIVES. j/k
And what he has to do with christianity?
I think you are going out of ammo when calling on the king, but Jesus figure is in many ways like Elvis and that is I am beginning to think now.

Originally posted by AkashicWanderer
At times the bible should not be interpreted literally. It is a book to be read under meditation, and the words should not be taken at face value.

too right it shouldn't be taken literally, but some people do take it literally, so i'm asking them when jesus said 'i will return in your lifetime' to his disciples, did he not?

as for reading a book during meditation, if you were in full meditation you would not be reading a book.

Jesus was the name of the physical man who incarnated the Christ.

christ or jesus, whatever name you give him he promised to return, in his disciples lifetime, yet he did not, and he still hasn't. every day that goes by is one more day that jesus doesn't come back, eventually people won't wait.

Originally posted by jfdarby
Most people think that last book was inspired by John, But it was inspired By Jesus told to John so he could write it down.

jesus' disciple 'john' did not write the book that was titled 'john'. it was also not written whilst jesus was alive, it was written around 90 to 110 AD.

Originally posted by jfdarby
I Think that the last prophecy that has came about was in 1967 or 68 When Israel became a country of it own again and Jerusalem became the Capital again after 2200 years scattered all over the world.

if the prophecy was 'israel will become a country of its own in 1967-68' then that's a prophecy. without the date there is no point of the prophecy.

Originally posted by karie
So see Jesus did return to His disciples after His death and resurrection and appeared in the form they new Him as.

one: this can't be taken as true, or that it ever happened this way.
two: this is not the return jesus told his disciples about.

Originally posted by MankoW
And what he has to do with christianity?

my point was that many people believe jesus is still alive, alive inside us, they speak of a personal relationship with him and so on, and they really believe this is true. there are also many people who believe elvis is still alive, hell i had a friend who wouldn't accept tupac was dead and still thinks he's alive somewhere. the point is that people will believe absolutly anything, including in christianity.

Originally posted by MankoW
I think you are going out of ammo when calling on the king, but Jesus figure is in many ways like Elvis and that is I am beginning to think now.

it was just one example of what some people will go to lengths to believe in, not matter how stupid it might sound. i don't know what i'd do if someone told me they thought elvis was still alive, i'd probably laugh. what is the point in believe elvis is still alive anyways? are these people so weak they've got to keep elvis alive in their own minds? the same way as a christian might keep god alive in their minds, because they can't function in society without god?

jesus/christ ain't coming back...just how long people will wait? well...that's up to them. one things for sure, people won't wait forever. eventually christianity will run it's course, just like the forgotten, now taught as history, greek gods.

Originally posted by jfdarby
Most people think that last book was inspired by John, But it was inspired By Jesus told to John so he could write it down..

never heard that before, and for good reason I suspect.

Originally posted by jfdarby
I Think that the last prophecy that has came about was in 1967 or 68 When Israel became a country of it own again and Jerusalem became the Capital again after 2200 years scattered all over the world.......

The year was 1948. Considering eschatologists were behind its reconstruction, this isn't all that interesting. Modern Israel is a secular republic (25% of Israelis don't even believe in god), not the promised theocratic dictatorship of the Bible. This is not a fulfilled prophecy. The best you can claim is that it sets the stage for the fulfillment of prophecy.

Here's the prophecy from Jesus himself:
Matthew 24
30"At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all the nations of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky, with power and great glory. 31And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

32"Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near. 33Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it[d]is near, right at the door. 34I tell you the truth, this generation[e] will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. 35Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.

This is a most troublesome passage for eschatological futurists. Most apologetics attempt to redefine the word "generation" to get around it.

Originally posted by spamandham
Here's the prophecy from Jesus himself:
Matthew 24
30"At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all the nations of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky, with power and great glory. 31And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

32"Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near. 33Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it[d]is near, right at the door. 34I tell you the truth, this generation[e] will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. 35Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.

This is a most troublesome passage for eschatological futurists. Most apologetics attempt to redefine the word "generation" to get around it.

I love it when you quote the Bible spamandham, it does help me think.

I've read the above passage as you've quoted it a few times to make sure I understand what it's saying. Did "the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all the nations of the earth will mourn"? I think the answer is yes. The sign currently being held is the resurrection denoted by the empty cross. Did all the nations mourn? Indeed, even the tide of mighty Rome was turned.

"And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds"? You may recall in Acts the tongues of fire of the Holy Spirit. The apostles were given the power and protection to gather the elect from the four winds (go out to all nations of the earth, Matthew 28:18). I don't doubt angels aided their work.

"Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near. Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it is near, right at the door". All I have to say is, "Welcome to summer!". Those savvy on Revelation will tell you that there is much speaking of harvesting in Revelation. It sounds like Revelation covers fall and winter to me.

"I tell you the truth, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened". As he said, as they happened. But this will not be proof for you I'm sure so you'll move on to something else to fight in the Book most assuredly, yes?

"Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away."

And the people in hizzouse say, "Ahhmen". In the beginning was the Word before there was the world. If you accept that, then this is easy.


[edit on 14-11-2005 by saint4God]

Originally posted by shaunybaby

Originally posted by spamandham
The words were something like "this generation shall not pass". Apologists have invented several clever ways around this inconvenient morsel.

Those are the words I was refering to. I'm not quite sure how anyone can get passed that, as it is what it is. Jesus prophesised that he would return within the lifespan of his beloved disciples, yet he never returned and to this day has not.

Originally posted by AkashicWanderer
Christ is slowly returning back.

Yeah sure he is

I love the ambiguity of your answer, because one: it's not an answer, and two: it makes no sense, hence it's the perfect christian answer.

It will not happen all at once.

You're right in a way, as it won't 'happen all at once', however it also 'won't happen at all'.

Your faith in jesus coming back to earth is the same faith as people have in elvis that still believe he's not dead.

Like the peolpe who believe elvis is not actually dead, you need to get over the fact that jesus isn't coming back.

(2 Peter 3:3-9 KJV)

Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,

And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.

For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:

Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:

But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

Originally posted by saint4God
And the people in hizzouse say, "Ahhmen". In the beginning was the Word before there was the world. If you accept that, then this is easy.

The passage is only a problem for futurists. Those who view these events as having already been fulfilled do not have the same problem.

Originally posted by spamandham
The passage is only a problem for futurists. Those who view these events as having already been fulfilled do not have the same problem.

Oh, okay. Fair enough

mrwupy said:

I don't hate Christians, I feel sorry for them. I consider them sheeple that blindly follow what they have been told in order to get heavenly rewards when they die. Do you honestly believe your soul is going to get a mansion on a hilltop, streets of gold and a great big fancy crown that gets bigger with every person you convert to the same inanity?

crowns, mansions and decent streets are earthly pleasures, Atleast in Islam you get 72 virgins, which is just as bizarre.

Yet you're willing to blindly follow in hope of these rewards at some later date. The ultimate IOU from God, delivered by those who have the audacity to claim they speak for him.

A daily relationship with the creator of all things is FAR more important than whatever happens after you've taken your last breath.

As I said, I don't hate christians, I just don't want them or their guru around me. Life is silly enough without having them going off.

Love and light, Wupy

Very well said, Wumpy. For the record, I am a Wiccan, and be it known, we don't hate Christians either, we feel sorry for them. Why? Because they refuse to question their own faith, and will not look any further than their book for answers. The will not look inside themselves, for that is where their real divine self is; they would much rather depend wholly on a promise that Christ supposedly made to them.
Reading about the Christian Heaven, I for one do not wish to go to a place where everyone belongs to a Collective, spending all their time praising a God who has committed many crimes against humanity. I just wish Christianity would expel their spokespersons, such as Jerry Farewell and Pat Robertson, and study and ask questions of their leaders, and demand answers. (I tried this, but was told to leave the church) Stop telling everyone that if they are not like you, they are going to HELL, that is an invention of Christianity, as is Satian, or their Devil. Religion should be a personal thing, not a powerful force that seeks to run America.
Thanks for listening, Magickman

For proving once and for all that there is in fact an Anti-Christian conspiracy. I think I was having a challenging time proving the case on my own.

God bless.

Originally posted by saint4God
For proving once and for all that there is in fact an Anti-Christian conspiracy. I think I was having a challenging time proving the case on my own.

God bless.

Really? That's a more rock solid conspiracy than the Chinese guy getting arrested for possession of Bibles? More than the other stuff I mentioned?

I now realize that you want to be hated. That makes sense with the bible verses about scoffers in the last days. The last days have been coming for the last 2000 years, but don't worry, they'll come.

It's cool, though. It's funnier for me this way; this thread is highly entertaining. "There's a conspiracy, man. It's not stuff that happens in real life, it's our twisted interpretation of other people's words on this site, man. The last days are here for sure, man."

"I tell you the truth, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened". As he said, as they happened. But this will not be proof for you I'm sure so you'll move on to something else to fight in the Book most assuredly, yes?

My friend saint. Would you please give me a little clarification on what you are trying to interpret? I can only read that all must come into being for the passage to have meaning. My thinking that the word "generation" can be used in a really broad sense. Such as the generation called "man"?

That the generation of "man" will not pass away until Jesus has returned?

Is that what you are trying to say?