The Anti-Christian conspiracy

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
logic is a construct of a mind
if god exists and is in fact the first being as you postulate
god did not CREATE logic
it just happened as a result of god existing

I'll buy that, sure.

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
veiled arrogant atheists/people that try to put logic to dogma attack

I don't think it's an intentional arrogance. I think it's a pride thing often overlooked on self examination. Just my observation.

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
.....
that isn't humanism at all
where did you get that crap from?

Educate me.

Here is the defintion I am using:

"a doctrine, attitude, or way of life centered on human interests or values; especially : a philosophy that usually rejects supernaturalism and stresses an individual's dignity and worth and capacity for self-realization through reason"

www.m-w.com...

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
and why are you attacking a perfectly valid idea PRESENT IN THE TEACHING OF "JESUS" in this thread?
from his teachings, "jesus" was akin to a modern reformed jewish humanist

Care to explain?

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
the media is anything but anti-christian

Depends on the media. A person cannot say "the media" has one opinion.

[edit on 23-2-2007 by saint4God]

Speaking of the media, how appropriate for this thread:

(Pay close attention to the items in the background)
Miami Cult Brands Members with 666 Tattoos

"Antichrist" is the latest in a string of titles De Jesus has bestowed on himself.

In 1988, De Jesus announced he was the reincarnation of the Apostle Paul. In 1999, he dubbed himself "the Other," a spiritual superbeing who would pave the way for Christ's second coming. In 2004, he proclaimed himself to be Jesus Christ."

I'm sure more threads will follow here on ATS.

[edit on 24-2-2007 by saint4God]

There are two classes of the sons of men;

They who would build the human race upon the sure foundation stones of justice, truth, equality and right,

And they who would destroy the holy temple where the Spirit dwells and bring their fellows down to beggary and crime.

The Holy brotherhood of right must stand united in the stirring conflicts of the hour. 24 No matter whether they be Jews, Samaritans, Assyrians, or Greeks, they must tramp down beneath their feet all strife, all discord, jealousy and hate, and demonstrate the brotherhood of man. 25 Then to the ruler of the synagogue he spoke: he said, United in the cause of right we stand; divided we will fall. 26

United we Stand..and Divided we Fall !...Sound Familiar America?

We carry the Torch of Right..but we too must look within to our own iniquities.

It is Written:

Jesus is the Stone the Builders rejected and the stone which will be the Capstone.!!!

To any that come against this stone, they will be dashed to pieces, and to any that if falls on..will be crushed. !!!

I am one that has been given the name of the Stone...

The name of the Stone is Gibraltar.

Nulli Expugnabilis Hosti !

Man has given a name of that stone which means UnConquerable by any Enemy.

Whether you believe in Christ or not..Conspiracy or not.

It really isnt up for debate or even a question. Christ IS

The Truth is the Truth. And in the end Hate Terminated and Truth Restored.

When God is with us...who can be against us?

Let their be Peace and Understanding

[edit on 26-2-2007 by HIFIGUY

[edit on 26-2-2007 by HIFIGUY]

The real fear that I have is that this is going to grow into a conspiracy against any form of spirituality whatsoever. It seems to me that secularist don't want anyone to believe in anything other than what one's eye can see.

I do think that there will come a point in time, fast approaching, when it doesn't matter what you believe, if you believe in something other than what the organ of the eye can see, you will be persecuted.

[edit on 26-2-2007 by SpeakerofTruth]

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
The real fear that I have is that this is going to grow into a conspiracy against any form of spirituality whatsoever. It seems to me that secularist don't want anyone to believe in anything other than what one's eye can see.

that's true, we don't want people to believe in things we see as being delusional
however, secularists don't seem to be doing anything to do anything about what others believe

I do think that there will come a point in time, fast approaching, when it doesn't matter what you believe, if you believe in something other than what the organ of the eye can see, you will be persecuted.

can you even give a single instance in which ATHEISTS are doing persecuting?
we make up, what 12% of the population?
i don't see that we're in any position to persecute anyone

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
however, secularists don't seem to be doing anything to do anything about what others believe

Oh madness, you are a card. That's the funniest thing I've heard on ATS in months. Kudos for the joke.

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
can you even give a single instance in which ATHEISTS are doing persecuting?

Yes. There are plenty, but let's go with this one for now:

www.loyno.edu...
"What the monsignor failed to take into account was the militant atheism of the Soviet government, whose objective was to exterminate all religion.

The new strategy of the Catholic Church in Russia brought about more intense persecution of the clergy and laity in 1919 and 1920. There were massacres of Poles and Ruthenians with many of them being buried alive."

"seven years of persecution and martyrdom of the clergy and laity that destroyed the main hierarchy of the Church."

Massacres, buried alive.

"Father Walsh, who was present during this five-day trial, affirms the final question put to the clergy, their response, and the public prosecutor's disparagement of their response:

'Will you stop teaching the Christian religion?'
'We cannot,' came the uniform reply. 'It is the law of God.'
'That law does not exist on Soviet Territory,' replied Krylenko.
'You must choose . . . As for your religion, I spit on it, as I spit on all
religions.'"

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
we make up, what 12% of the population?
i don't see that we're in any position to persecute anyone

Thank God for that.

[edit on 26-2-2007 by saint4God]

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
can you even give a single instance in which ATHEISTS are doing persecuting?
we make up, what 12% of the population?
i don't see that we're in any position to persecute anyone

That's an awfully inflated figure. From what I understand it's only about 6-7 percent of the population. However, secularist do seem to have a heavy hand in the decision making of the governments of this world...

By the way, in response to this little statement

that's true, we don't want people to believe in things we see as being delusional

It is really no one's business as to what anyone else believes. If someone wants to be "delusional," as you put it, that is his or her choice. No one, whether they be secularist or religious should have a damn thing to say about it!! Madness, I can have an opinion of any group of people I want, but, as long as I do not forbid them to believe what they wish, harsh criticism shouldn't come my way. I don't think that the secularist mindset is correct, but I think they are entitled to it and will not try to take it away from them, which is more than I can say for most of them.

saint, i meant in the modern world
you actually posted something that was written before i was born...
so, unless you can find something written in the last 18 years (though maybe 18 months would be preferrable) i can't see any instances of atheism doing the oppression

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
That's an awfully inflated figure. From what I understand it's only about 6-7 percent of the population. However, secularist do seem to have a heavy hand in the decision making of the governments of this world...

the range of atheists in the USA is anywhere from 6-15%, it all depends on the study you look at
i go with a healthy 12% as my estimate

and speaker, we don't WANT people believing the stuff
but we let them (unless you can show otherwise)
you don't see door to door atheists (aside from a hilarious segment of australian tv)
we let the religious be religious
we just want them to keep it out of our governing institutions

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
saint, i meant in the modern world

Ah! Okay, so others can bring up the "crusades" as a Christian campaign (which it was not) from 600 years ago, but early 1900's is ancient history?

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
you actually posted something that was written before i was born...
so, unless you can find something written in the last 18 years (though maybe 18 months would be preferrable) i can't see any instances of atheism doing the oppression

C'mon madness, are you serious? One cannot stick their head in the sand because we'd not witnessed something within our own insignificant years and limited only to our own two eyes. I would've had must greater respect for just about any other response than this.

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
the range of atheists in the USA is anywhere from 6-15%, it all depends on the study you look at
i go with a healthy 12% as my estimate

I don't know how this is relevant to what happens when athiesm takes the majority.

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
and speaker, we don't WANT people believing the stuff
but we let them (unless you can show otherwise)
you don't see door to door atheists (aside from a hilarious segment of australian tv)
we let the religious be religious
we just want them to keep it out of our governing institutions

I recommend the book Discretion and Valour. It's as textbook as history books get and only $3 used. Probably in libraries too without cost. In there it discusses more about the progression of annihilation of religious persons by atheists.

www.alibris.com...

[edit on 26-2-2007 by saint4God]

To my Brothers in Christ, May I remind you that many times we can come across as overbearing. And that our words rock people back on their heals.

We as men of God, should know that forcing someone to believe promotes the same force as those who wish us to fall away

Hence an eye for an eye.

They will know we are followers by our acts and our Love.

The Conspiracy as I see it, is the eye for an eye battle. A tooth for a tooth. Pen against Pen, and word against word. Its not a conspiracy.
The way is won by the Act!

Acts my Brothers..Acts!.. Do the Word. Do the Command. Speak your piece quietly and clearly. Without acts...our words are merely combat in a field of thought.

Christs ways was to make change by picking up your own cross.

There can be no conspiracy against serving your fellow man and honoring Christ’s commands.

I have watched Madness combat on many forums. He claims he does good for his fellow man etc etc. To Him, and those like him, I say go forth and do as you say. Do Good. Be Good.
Should the Father or the Son reach out to you, then so be it.

Deeds without Faith according to Christ fall under natural law.

Let our ways be a beacon and let us not banter the unbeliever. Share your faith in passing, and should it fall upon those in need, then feed the sheep
what the shepard asked us to do.

Peace


[edit on 27-2-2007 by HIFIGUY]

Originally posted by HIFIGUY
Acts my Brothers..Acts!.. Do the Word. Do the Command.

"Later Jesus appeared to the Eleven as they were eating; he rebuked them for their lack of faith and their stubborn refusal to believe those who had seen him after he had risen. He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the good news to all creation." - Mark 16:15

Originally posted by HIFIGUY
Deeds without Faith according to Christ fall under natural law.

"For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast." - Ephesians 2:7-9

I understand what you're saying Hifi, it's akin to the book of James which was written by and for believers but we cannot forget the faith comes first.

[edit on 27-2-2007 by saint4God]

Originally posted by saint4God

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
saint, i meant in the modern world

Ah! Okay, so others can bring up the "crusades" as a Christian campaign (which it was not) from 600 years ago, but early 1900's is ancient history?

Please do qualify this statement. Are you denying the fact that the crusades wasa war between Christians and Muslims? I have heard this argument repeatedly,without any satisfactory evidence being presented. Why? Perhaps because it is indeed a fact that it was a war between Muslims and Christians. Yeah? I am impartial, but when I see a statement that I view as being false,I will call anyone on it.

[edit on 27-2-2007 by SpeakerofTruth]

[edit on 27-2-2007 by SpeakerofTruth]

[edit on 27-2-2007 by SpeakerofTruth]

Originally posted by saint4God
but we cannot forget the faith comes first.
[edit on 27-2-2007 by saint4God]

What man can instill another mans faith or remove it for that matter?

reluctant-messenger.com...

But to each, it is the Truth as the one mind seeth it, and for that time, till a higher Truth shall be revealed unto the same: and to the soul which receiveth higher light, shall be given more light. Wherefore condemn not others, that ye be not condemned.

Saint..have you read the U2U I sent you?

Peace


[edit on 27-2-2007 by HIFIGUY]

Originally posted by saint4God

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
can you even give a single instance in which ATHEISTS are doing persecuting?

Yes. There are plenty, but let's go with this one for now:

www.loyno.edu...
"What the monsignor failed to take into account was the militant atheism of the Soviet government, whose objective was to exterminate all religion.

This is a specific instance in which the idea was that the State is "God". The reason was purely power and pretty much had nothing to do with an actual belief system as far as deities are concerned. If the State is God, then the State must be obeyed. Now, that aside, show some realistic instances in everyday life. If anything, it's theists who persecute atheists.

Originally posted by saint4God

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
saint, i meant in the modern world

Ah! Okay, so others can bring up the "crusades" as a Christian campaign (which it was not) from 600 years ago, but early 1900's is ancient history?

The Crusades were started by the Pope to recapture Jerusalem from the Muslims. How do you not characterize that as Christian. There are factors involved, though, such as a Pope who was seeking to increase his power. And, as you said, it's old. However, the Crusades are largely responsible for the general hated of Christians by Muslims.

I don't know how this is relevant to what happens when athiesm takes the majority.

Is there any specific "danger" that this is going to happen? People have always looked to something to explain the world, and gods have typically been that explanation. I suspect that's not going to change anytime soon.

Originally posted by SpeakerofTruth
Please do qualify this statement. Are you denying the fact that the crusades wasa war between Christians and Muslims? I have heard this argument repeatedly,without any satisfactory evidence being presented. Why? Perhaps because it is indeed a fact that it was a war between Muslims and Christians. Yeah? I am impartial, but when I see a statement that I view as being false,I will call anyone on it.

I was careful in my wordchoice on my statement and intentionally so. The difference is between Christian and those who call themselves "christian". The crusades may have been a campaign for people who claimed to be christian and claim Christian motive. To validate or falsify their motive, one must turn to the origin, teaching, and principles of Christ/Christianity. Where is it that Christ said, "go slaughter Muslims" or anyone for that matter? Where does Christ say "reclaim the holyland, spill blood, take land, possessions and power". No, he said none of these things. What he did says is this (among many other related things):

"Hearing that Jesus had silenced the Sadducees, the Pharisees got together. One of them, an expert in the law, tested him with this question:
"Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?" Jesus replied: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'" - Matthew 22:33-39

"You have heard that it was said, 'Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.' But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you," - Matthew 5:42-43

Taking these Christian principles, by Christ, and contrasting them with the actions (and emotions) behind the crusades we can now see a great chasm between the two motivations.

But, one may ask "was not the crusades a way of conversion by fear?" Let us check that again with Christianity:

(Christ speaking here) "He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the good news to all creation." - Mark 16:15-16

The act of preaching involves no swords, armor...not even physical contact. This is the command each Christian has received.

"You know the message God sent to the people of Israel, telling the good news of peace through Jesus Christ, who is Lord of all." - Acts 10:36

Notice the vehicular mechanism for telling the good news ---> Peace

So then, if the motivation of the crusades is not for Christ and God biblically speaking, what then was the motivation of the crusades? I don't have to say it, there are plenty of sources that explain:

This theory explains the crusades in the Baltic as a nascent Drang nach Osten, while the Reconquista in Spain and the crusade against the Albigensians in the Midi were simply wars of expansion window-dressed with religion. A populace thirsty for indulgences was dragooned into service and new sources of money from the church requisitioned to serve the territorial ambitions of kings and petty princes. Similarly, the younger son theory originated from the assumption that humans are ultimately motivated by economic reasons, in this case the increasing scarcity of land which led families to save themselves from financial ruin by making the eldest son the sole heir. Eager to rid themselves of their younger sons, they sent them on crusade in the hope that they could carve out inheritances for themselves in the East, a theory which Giles Constable and Jonathan Riley-Smith firmly rattled through their studies of the financial sacrifices many families made to send members on crusade who were, as often as not, heads of the family or elder sons.

www.the-orb.net...

Hm...this motivation does seem to fit, as the result of conquering lands and destroying people would result in economic, political, imperial and expansionism successes.


[edit on 27-2-2007 by saint4God]

Originally posted by djmcewen
Is there any specific "danger" that this is going to happen? People have always looked to something to explain the world, and gods have typically been that explanation. I suspect that's not going to change anytime soon.

There was a danger that did happen. No sense shooting dice with the future as history has a way of repeating itself when lessons of the past go unlearned.

[edit on 27-2-2007 by saint4God]

Originally posted by HIFIGUY
Saint..have you read the U2U I sent you?

I did, but as usual with with your U2U they require a great deal of thought. The things you've mentioned are neither easy to comprehend nor easy to reply to. Hope that's seen as a compliment and I apologize for the delay. Often times I read them, consider and read them again the next day. I have no doubts at all there are things working within you and it's remarkable to see the contrasts from when we'd started talking two years ago and now. It's overwhelming & really like a lot of what you have to say.

[edit on 27-2-2007 by saint4God]

Blablablabla. *yawn*

Want to hear some words of truth? I suggest you check out Michael Tsarion, because he has some really interesting views of our world.

After Tsarion's theories, and others' naturally, christian religion is mere a desinformative religion used by the "elite" (infiltrated masonry) to distract the people. In fact many of the symbols and aspects of true history have been censored or covered up in the "bible". Astrology which is absolutely imperative for "Spiritual" knowledge and elightenment, is almost completely ignored or misused.

Just as an example: In ancient religions the gods often have horns. In christianity those true gods have been defined as "evil" with the introduction of satan. That's the reason why they are still massacring bulls in spanish arenas.
Sadly enough this "interpretation" is completely wrong.

Nor is the number 666, or the "Pentagram".. necessarily "Evil". 666 means as much as "Human".. no wonder it is totally twisted in cristianity. No wonder that "Spanish Sect" in the News is using it. The pentagram actually stands for "Mars", or "Adversary".. or sometimes also the "5 Senses".. That's why it is used in the Pentagon. And it doesn't actually matter very much if you turn it inside out. Only in case of a "satanist" looking for spirituality using a symbol of the Light.

The "Trinity" is completely misinterpreted, as you can see by the masses of ignorant, and sadly misled christians who are searching for some "Holy spirit" in the skies, or in a church.. or maybe they are even looking for some old man with a white beard. :F

The truth is, as it's written (or not written? I'm no christian myself) in the bible. That you dont need no luxuries, or churches, or preachers to become enlightened.

The "temple" is in your heart. So the missing "piece" in cristian trinity is finding to your "self". What a wonderful disinformation. So many things covered up, ignored or turned upside-down.

There are so many more details which show christian religion as completely misleading information.

And that's exactly what they want us to do. To turn away from our hearts.. from ourselves. And therefore turning away from the people around us, because we do not dare to look at ourselves.

I guess that those ancient symbols are passed on in our genes.. therefore most people notice something disturbing in the "christian" religion. But it's not the peoples fault. It's the Elite. The people in the background.. and it is also them abusing of "symbols" in everyday media, in a disacrating way.. to supress our psyche.

Btw. Notice how Foxnews doesn't tell you anything about "666" other than plain BS. Perfect example. Always telling us the opposite.

Listen to Tsarion's 2012 stuff, especially if you haven't done so yet and are a christian believer ;]

Michael Tsarion 2012