The Anti-Christian conspiracy

Originally posted by saint4God
Christ explains what the bread and wine represent in John 6. Naturally the people "don't get it" so they have to argue among each other whether or not they're supposed to bite him or not until Jesus explains it again.

This is neither here nor there. It wasn't being dicussed whether this was in John 6 or if they were supposed to bite Jesus. But pretty much clarifies that if Jesus indeed had followers, that they weren't too bright. Maybe they were easy to fool? Audiences often are. Jesus, "This bread represents my body". Disciple, "Do we really have to eat you?" Jesus, "Look I'm walking on water". Disciple, "Wow he's walking on water!" I think you get the point.

Above it was said that Catholics practice rituals. I was pointing out that the whole blood/wine and bread/body thing is very much ritualised and practiced by Christians. Nothing wrong with that, same as there's nothing wrong with Catholics practicing rituals.

Originally posted by shaunybaby
*Atleast we're not still sacrificing goats and sheep* (as far as I'm aware)

Originally posted by saint4God
Have you ever wondered why?

Because we're not living in the dark ages?

God got fed up with recieving lamb and goat meat as a sacrifice?

Originally posted by shaunybaby
But pretty much clarifies that if Jesus indeed had followers, that they weren't too bright.

I'm glad you've helped illustrate undo's point that many see ancient people as idiots. Cleary they were not. Anyone who has read a history book (and the more history books the better) should be able to agree.

Originally posted by shaunybaby
Maybe they were easy to fool? Audiences often are.

Bravely said, as you are part of an audience.

Originally posted by shaunybaby
Jesus, "This bread represents my body". Disciple, "Do we really have to eat you?" Jesus, "Look I'm walking on water". Disciple, "Wow he's walking on water!" I think you get the point.

It was this kind of trivialization that caused me to clarify in the first place.

Originally posted by shaunybaby

Originally posted by saint4God
Have you ever wondered why?

Because we're not living in the dark ages?

God got fed up with recieving lamb and goat meat as a sacrifice?

Nope, on both accounts. Try again. Hint: It has something to do with Christ.


[edit on 11-12-2006 by saint4God]

Why would anyone doubt that Jesus walked on water? He is God, and if anyone can walk on water, I'm sure God could . . .

Originally posted by southern_cross3
Why would anyone doubt that Jesus walked on water? He is God, and if anyone can walk on water, I'm sure God could . . .

it's the same people that question the historicity of jesus and the existence of god

why do you doubt that odin has an eight-legged horse?
if any god is going to have one it would be the greatest god of valhalla

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
why do you doubt that odin has an eight-legged horse?
if any god is going to have one it would be the greatest god of valhalla

Why would a god need a horse?

Originally posted by saint4God
Why would a god need a horse?

to ride into battle?
so he could have something to ride during the great battle of ragnorak?
it seems fairly obvious to me

Originally posted by saint4God
I'm glad you've helped illustrate undo's point that many see ancient people as idiots. Cleary they were not. Anyone who has read a history book (and the more history books the better) should be able to agree.

I was just going by what you were saying. You said when Jesus tried to explain that the bread was his body, they got confused and thought they had to take a bite out of Jesus. So it was you saying they were, not I. Thought I'd clarify that, as you seem to be accusing me of suggesting ancient people were idiots, when in fact it was you suggesting it.

Originally posted by saint4God
Nope, on both accounts. Try again. Hint: It has something to do with Christ.

Jesus likes eating the meat rather than wasting it in a sacrifice?

Originally posted by southern_cross3
Why would anyone doubt that Jesus walked on water? He is God, and if anyone can walk on water, I'm sure God could . . .

David Copperfield walked through the Great Wall of China. I guess he's a God too. It's called magic. I take it you still believing in the tooth fairy and santa claus?

I take it I know how to speak proper English, which you don't, judging from your last sentence.

Your skepticism will be your downfall, and quite frankly I don't feel you deserve to be accomodated with your unfounded statements. Anyone can make jokes about the truth. Sadly, you will burn in Hell and remember reading this. I refuse to argue with someone who has the mental capacity of an amoeba. Best of luck to you.

Originally posted by southern_cross3
I take it I know how to speak proper English, which you don't, judging from your last sentence.

It's called a spelling mistake. It's remarkable how petty you can be.

Originally posted by southern_cross3
Your skepticism will be your downfall, and quite frankly I don't feel you deserve to be accomodated with your unfounded statements.

Skepticism is good. Not sure why you're making it out to be something bad, and also associating it with my downfall. Exactly what sort of downfall am I supposed to experience?

Originally posted by southern_cross3
Anyone can make jokes about the truth. Sadly, you will burn in Hell and remember reading this. I refuse to argue with someone who has the mental capacity of an amoeba. Best of luck to you.

If I have a mental capacity of an amoeba then you should easily be able to win an arguement with me. However, since you've not even tried to discuss it on any level, and avoided confrontation, I'll assume that you are unable to justify yourself.

Also I wasn't making jokes. I brought up santa, the tooth fairy and magic, because you believe that someone can walk on water, yet when it comes to tooth fairies, santa and walking through walls, that's just mere magic and made up legends. There's no need for an argument, this is a discussion so we can better ourselves and find out more about other's beliefs. Yet, you're somewhat determined not to let on 'why' you believe some things, but not others.

[edit on 11-12-2006 by shaunybaby]

Originally posted by southern_cross3
I take it I know how to speak proper English, which you don't, judging from your last sentence.

Your skepticism will be your downfall, and quite frankly I don't feel you deserve to be accomodated with your unfounded statements. Anyone can make jokes about the truth. Sadly, you will burn in Hell and remember reading this. I refuse to argue with someone who has the mental capacity of an amoeba. Best of luck to you.

This is senseless namecalling and threats. I don't see where any of this has anything to do with Christianity nor the topic. I think the appropriate thing to do would be to apologize to shauny. None of us were "born believers" and there's good reason for that. Remember your days of B.C. (before Christ), place yourself there and ask yourself how you'd feel if these things were said to you back then.

[edit on 13-12-2006 by saint4God]

Shauny compared the God of the universe to David Copperfield. Not to mention insinuating that a belief in this all-powerful God is tantamount to believing in Santa Claus or the Tooth Fairy.

I owe no apology.

[edit on 12/13/2006 by southern_cross3]

Originally posted by southern_cross3
Shauny compared the God of the universe to David Copperfield. Not to mention insinuating that a belief in this all-powerful God is tantamount to believing in Santa Claus or the Tooth Fairy.

I owe no apology.

I was comparing one belief to another belief.

At one point in my life I believed that there was a fat man riding around on flying raindeer delivering presents, which elves had made, and this all happened on christmas eve. I also believed that when I put a fallen tooth under my pillow, the 50 pence in the morning was there because the tooth fairy had come.

I'm not ashamed of believing in those things. I knew of nothing else. I grew out of that though and realised they are just fairy tales.

Stories like Noah's Ark, to me, are no different to other fairy tales I know of such as Santa Claus. At the end of the day all I was asking is why would you accept a story like Noah's Ark as 100% truth, but not accept Santa Claus as anything else other than a fairy tale?

Why should Noah's Ark be taken literally by adults, yet Santa Claus not? Surely they should both not be taken as literal stories? If Santa Claus is a myth, then why not Noah's Ark?

Originally posted by southern_cross3
Shauny compared the God of the universe to David Copperfield. Not to mention insinuating that a belief in this all-powerful God is tantamount to believing in Santa Claus or the Tooth Fairy.

I owe no apology.

[edit on 12/13/2006 by southern_cross3]

when saint says someone owes shauny an apology, you know they need to give shauny an apology

also, it is similar to belief in santa and the tooth fairy
all of those beliefs rest in FAITH in said figure, not in actual evidence

[edit on 12/13/06 by madnessinmysoul]

S_C3, are you saying that the Tooth Fairy isn't real? Then who gave me a dollar when my teeth fell out?

And who gave me presents at Christmas? And Who are the cookies specifically addressed to Santa?

Originally posted by southern_cross3
Shauny compared the God of the universe to David Copperfield.

The people in Acts compared Simon the Sorcerer to Jesus Christ. The thinking of mankind hasn't changed in 2,000+ years. I'm surprised that you're surprised. We know what happened to Simon the Sorcerer and it wasn't hellfire and damnation (whether he was headed there or not) and those who saw when he changed knew then who he was and was not.

Originally posted by southern_cross3
Not to mention insinuating that a belief in this all-powerful God is tantamount to believing in Santa Claus or the Tooth Fairy.

To one who does not know God, wouldn't God seem like a myth? I can see why you'd be upset, but we have an opportunity to be helpful. Question is, will we choose do so?

Originally posted by southern_cross3
I owe no apology.

And God doesn't owe us eternal life, rather gives it despite ourselves.

[edit on 13-12-2006 by saint4God]

Let's backtrack a little and make things very simple. One example:

One: Jesus walked on water. Christians take this as a literal event.

Two: David Copperfield walked through the Great Wall of China. This was a televised event, people even went and saw it live.

My personal belief is that Jesus didn't walk on water. I also believe that David Copperfield is a magician, and that walking through the Great Wall of China was an illusion.

I want to know why you believe Jesus walked on water, but why you don't believe David Copperfield walked through the Great Wall of China. And even more simply, why do you believe one thing, but discount another, even though they are relatively the same concept?

Originally posted by shaunybaby
I want to know why you believe Jesus walked on water, but why you don't believe David Copperfield walked through the Great Wall of China. And even more simply, why do you believe one thing, but discount another, even though they are relatively the same concept?

This is such an excellent question it would be a great injustice to answer immediately and without other's thoughts on it first. So I'd like to let this one sit for a while, while believers and non-believers alike think about it and when they're ready to answer, I would really like to hear what they have to say first.

saint4god, I see your point about being helpful. However, I've been extremely frustrated by the amount of people on the site who seem bent on embracing ignorance, rather than deny it. Even mention the Bible and a host of skeptics show up like dogs homing in on a steak. It's very tiring to constantly defend God and his Word to people who ridicule religion.

I suppose I feel that even nonbelievers should have respect for the God who created them. Yes, you have the right to reject the truth. But don't call it a lie.

Originally posted by southern_cross3
saint4god, I see your point about being helpful. However, I've been extremely frustrated by the amount of people on the site who seem bent on embracing ignorance, rather than deny it. Even mention the Bible and a host of skeptics show up like dogs homing in on a steak. It's very tiring to constantly defend God and his Word to people who ridicule religion.

I suppose I feel that even nonbelievers should have respect for the God who created them. Yes, you have the right to reject the truth. But don't call it a lie.

Nice aversion technique.

You're also 'for' the movement of denying ignorance, yet you sit there and state that I'm 'rejecting the truth', when I reject God. A tad hypocritical perhaps?

How is it hypocritical to say that rejecting God is rejecting truth, when God is truth?

Jesus could walk on water because he created it. David Copperfield did not create the Great Wall of China. Even so, some magic is real, and I believe that the fallen angels, or demons, can make things happen that some might see to be miracles.