The Anti-Christian conspiracy

Once upon a time, it was a "fact" that the Greeks couldn't write so the stories of Troy were made up by more contemporary people.

Of course, this was not true, but since German Higher Criticism said so, and they were the ones who determined what truth/fact was at the time, that was that.

Once upon a time, Gilgamesh never existed. It was stated as fact. But recently they found his burial site in Uruk.

Once upon a time, the only way a human could be conceived was via impregnation and delivery down the vaginal canal. It was stated as fact and used as the reason why the bible couldn't possibly be true, because the only way humans could be created was via sexual intercourse and vaginal delivery. But recently, they've discovered that ain't true either.

You're not arguing from a superior position on this if you think because science says otherwise, that is somehow going to negate everythign else.

My favorite one is the "but it's an eyewitness account and therefore can't possibly be provable." Odd that, since eyewitness testimony can send you to jail for the rest of your life.

Originally posted by saint4God
A fact is not based on popular opinion. Sorry Rasobasi, it is not.

Nor is it based on ardent belief

There is no Winnie the Pooh nor 100 acre wood where Winnie the Pooh lives and you know that for a fact. I know that for a fact too. The author has not declared this to be a fact, nor does he have any way to show us it is a fact.

And this differs from the bible in what way?

Originally posted by Rasobasi420

Originally posted by saint4God
A fact is not based on popular opinion. Sorry Rasobasi, it is not.

Nor is it based on ardent belief

Agreed, nor is it the basis for my declaration that it is a fact. Ready to move on?

Originally posted by Rasobasi420
And this differs from the bible in what way?

Already discussed.

But not clearly enough apparently. How is the Bible real, and Winnie the Pooh not? And please, use a reference other than the bible to point out it's basis in fact.

Saint,

I suggest you use schrodinger's cat to answer the above question en.wikipedia.org...'s_cat

Undo, schrodenger's cat has nothing to do with this.

Simply pu, If I worte a book, and said "this book was written by God", then used that sentance to prove the validity of the statement, it would be a logical fallacy, not a paradox.

Originally posted by saint4God
If you wish to celebrate Ramadan, certainly your right. If you want to post Ramadan posters in a public space, certainly your right.

I'm not questioning my right to celebrate religious holidays.

Money is put aside so towns and cities can have over-the-top Christmas decorations, I don't see the same for Ramadan or any other religious holiday. Now wouldn't you say that's favoring Christianity slightly? Which begs the question why do you think there's an anti-Christianity conspiracy, when there's clear evidence here that Christianity is actually favored in many respects.

Originally posted by saint4God
You'd stated the Bible was not a declared fact, I was demonstrating that it was. If it was taken to mean "I told you so" that's fine, but not purposed in a negative nor demeaning way.

Using your own ideology here, I can therefore state that The Da Vinci Code is 'declared fact'. If you've seen Dan Brown in interviews, then you would have heard him state many times that the book is fact. So stating that The Bible is declared fact, really doesn't add any sort of authority on the subject matter, as the same can be done for The Da Vinci Code (A book, by your own admittence, to be fiction).

Originally posted by shaunybaby
Rather self-indulgent to start a phrase, passage, sentence with 'I tell you the truth..'

Originally posted by saint4God
This is a declaration of fact.

Just because someone declares what they're about to say is fact/truth, that in no way means that it is indeed fact or truth. Do you not understand that?

Originally posted by saint4God
"based upon" and "are" are two different phrases entirely. "Based upon" means "I got my ideas from reality and have included my fiction" whereas "are" means is, as in, it is a fact.

It was an example, and you managed to miss the point as you always do.

Originally posted by saint4God
A fact is not based on popular opinion. Sorry Rasobasi, it is not.

Using your own thought process once again, we can determine therefore that The Bible is not fact, as it is merely popular opinion in the Christian faith. I'm just using your examples.

Originally posted by Rasobasi420
Undo, schrodenger's cat has nothing to do with this.

Simply pu, If I worte a book, and said "this book was written by God", then used that sentance to prove the validity of the statement, it would be a logical fallacy, not a paradox.

It isn't the paradox, it's the faith. The cat is in the box. It's a faith statement in something you personally know to be true as the researcher, even though you can't see it and can offer no real proof that the cat is in the box. Believing in something you can't see and can't prove, because you know it to be true, is the same thing.

Originally posted by Rasobasi420
But not clearly enough apparently. How is the Bible real, and Winnie the Pooh not? And please, use a reference other than the bible to point out it's basis in fact.

it's real because saint says that god exists and god says it is fact because the bible says god says the bible is fact

honestly, that's what it boils down to

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul

Originally posted by Rasobasi420
But not clearly enough apparently. How is the Bible real, and Winnie the Pooh not? And please, use a reference other than the bible to point out it's basis in fact.

it's real because saint says that god exists and god says it is fact because the bible says god says the bible is fact

honestly, that's what it boils down to

and God is not real because you say so? how is that different?

Originally posted by Rasobasi420
Undo, schrodenger's cat has nothing to do with this.

Agreed. I've no interest in creating convincing arguments or playing with logic puzzles.

If a tree falls in the woods and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound? Yes. We know that sound is caused by vibrations. We know that falling trees cause vibrations. Just because we're not around to hear it doesn't mean it did not fall nor made a sound. The FACT is it did make a sound despite human presence. If anyone doesn't believe me, they may borrow my tape recorder.

Originally posted by Rasobasi420
Simply pu, If I worte a book, and said "this book was written by God", then used that sentance to prove the validity of the statement, it would be a logical fallacy, not a paradox.

I agree it would be. It would also be a lie.

[edit on 29-11-2006 by saint4God]

Originally posted by madnessinmysoul
it's real because saint says that god exists and god says it is fact because the bible says god says the bible is fact

honestly, that's what it boils down to

Don't take my word for it. Each one of us is capable to obtaining that evidence without reading a book or listening to someone else. The Book and I are merely testaments. Perhaps that word "testament" sounds familiar? The Book testifies and I testify that these are true facts...but I'm confident that's not going to be enough evidence for others to believe.

So...how 'bout that topic huh? It must be cold and lonely without anyone warming up to it.

[edit on 29-11-2006 by saint4God]

Saint, I don't understand how you can agree with that point, but disagree with the other point.

You are obviously not thinking logically.

Originally posted by Rasobasi420
Saint, I don't understand how you can agree with that point, but disagree with the other point.

You are obviously not thinking logically.

The fallacy in the logic is your saying that you wrote the book. If God wrote the book and you said "This book was written by God" then there is no fallacy, rather a fact. Also, you're going to have a tough time convincing others of that fact, as they would have to dig for their own evidence to validate it. The only people who would trust you enough to take you at your word are those who can establish that you do not (or cannot) lie. ATS does not have these trusting people, myself included.

[edit on 29-11-2006 by saint4God]

Originally posted by saint4God
The fallacy in the logic is your saying that you wrote the book. If God wrote the book and you said "This book was written by God" then there is no fallacy, rather a fact.

Well now sir, I do believe you're talking out of your @$$.

That makes no sense whatsoever.

Okay, God wrote a book called "I am God" It's right here on my desk. Let me read some of it for you.

I am God. I have a corn cob pipe, and a button nose, and two eyes made out of coal. And the Bible is total BS

This book was written by God, it says so right here. And he told me the Bible is BS, so it is.

Argument won. God 1, Bible 0

Originally posted by Rasobasi420
Okay, God wrote a book called "I am God" It's right here on my desk. Let me read some of it for you.

I am God. I have a corn cob pipe, and a button nose, and two eyes made out of coal. And the Bible is total BS

This book was written by God, it says so right here. And he told me the Bible is BS, so it is.

Argument won. God 1, Bible 0

You are lying.

Originally posted by jake1997
This is what I see. I see threads about many different subjects. Hundreds of subjects. In politics things get heated. On sports teams things get heated.
But when it comes to christianity....

I see hatred, dripping wet with venom.

I think it's relevant to point out that you probably see "hatred, dripping wet with venom", because you take the criticisms on Christianity personally, and would probably refer to them as "attacks". Whereas, the criticisms on politics or sports teams you do not. It's human nature to exaggerate a threat when it's personal, simple as that.

3.) Doesnt the sheer weight of the trend in this forum show you that there is clearly some larger movement , possibly lead by a conspiracy, ...whos goal is anti-christian?

This is an interesting question. I guess it would depend on your definition of a conspiracy. Is there a group of people out there trying to inform the world of the falacy of Christianity? Yes! Are they an organized group who conspire with each other against Christianity? For the most part - no. If at all. So I'd say no, there's no conspiracy here, but I could be wrong.

Originally posted by saint4God

Originally posted by Rasobasi420
Okay, God wrote a book called "I am God" It's right here on my desk. Let me read some of it for you.

I am God. I have a corn cob pipe, and a button nose, and two eyes made out of coal. And the Bible is total BS

This book was written by God, it says so right here. And he told me the Bible is BS, so it is.

Argument won. God 1, Bible 0

You are lying.

What's the point in even having a discussion with you saint? I absolutely love arguements and confrontation, but this is neither, is darn right stupidity. If you're here to discuss and move forward on the chosen topic, then lets do so. Alot of your points/comments however do not even attempt to move forward or address the topic. It's merely to 'get one over' on your fellow ATSer.. In this case it was the I'm-A-Smart-A$$ 'You are lying' comment.

Originally posted by an3rkist
I think it's relevant to point out that you probably see "hatred, dripping wet with venom", because you take the criticisms on Christianity personally, and would probably refer to them as "attacks". Whereas, the criticisms on politics or sports teams you do not. It's human nature to exaggerate a threat when it's personal, simple as that.

I think that's the case for perhaps a lot of people's thinking in the United States. There's more anti-Christianism in other countries up to and including persecution which I'd linked a number of news articles about a few posts ago.

I do not know persecution. I see a lot of anger and verbal attacks, but nothing unexpected. In other parts of the world though, it is more severe.

Originally posted by an3rkist
This is an interesting question. I guess it would depend on your definition of a conspiracy. Is there a group of people out there trying to inform the world of the falacy of Christianity? Yes!

Thank you! This statement demonstrates both a group of people and their "informing" the world of a "fallacy"...which is going to be an uphill battle since there isn't a fallacy with following Christ.

Originally posted by an3rkist
Are they an organized group who conspire with each other against Christianity? For the most part - no.

I've linked the groups that are.

Originally posted by an3rkist
If at all. So I'd say no,

You've said two times "yes" and one "if at all" and now you're saying no?

Originally posted by an3rkist
there's no conspiracy here, but I could be wrong.

This threads chock full of meaty stuff to help validate your two yes's, unfortunately there's a lot of chaff to weed through because of off-topic discussions.

Originally posted by shaunybaby
What's the point in even having a discussion with you saint?

It takes two to tango.

Originally posted by shaunybaby
I absolutely love arguements and confrontation, but this is neither, is darn right stupidity.

Stupidity is doing something knowingly wrong but choosing to do so willingly. Show me where I have done this.

And, now knowing your love for argument and confrontation, I shall attempt to provide neither. It's pointless to argue just to argue or have confrontation for the love of the fight.

Originally posted by shaunybaby
If you're here to discuss and move forward on the chosen topic, then lets do so.

Yes, lets.

Originally posted by shaunybaby
Alot of your points/comments however do not even attempt to move forward or address the topic. It's merely to 'get one over' on your fellow ATSer..

When questioned, I will answer. When addressed, I will respond. (unless I'm dead or lost internet connection)

Originally posted by shaunybaby
In this case it was the I'm-A-Smart-A$$ 'You are lying' comment.

Am I wrong? If so, show me the facts and evidence otherwise.

[edit on 29-11-2006 by saint4God]