Corona Virus Updates Part 3

originally posted by: DBCowboy
I’ve been to meetings.

On the one hand we’re getting pretty good doom porn from the CDC.

On the other hand we’re getting calm and reason from the administration.

I don’t know who is telling the truth and I don’t want to feed one side or reinforce the other.

You are getting calm and reason from Trump because his whole presidency depends on the stock market.

You don't have to believe either of those, just follow the situation in Europe. Whatever is happening in Europe right now is going to come to a town near you very soon.
I only think it's going to be worse in USA than Europe because of the usual American rah rah arrogance

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: IAMTAT

Inoculations are based on virus surface receptors. So generally speaking, no.

The new vaccines that are being tested don't quite work that way. The one in human trials that was spoken of tonight is an RNA vaccine it's supposed to bypass the need for proteins to stimulate immune response.

For a classical vaccine, the antigen is introduced in the body to produce an immune response. However, in the case of DNA- or RNA-based vaccines, no antigen is introduced, only the RNA or DNA containing the genetic information to produce the antigen. That is, for this specific class of vaccines, introduction of DNA and RNA provides the instructions to the body to produce the antigen itself (Figure 1). They can be injected in various ways (under the skin, in the vein or in lymph nodes) and then they can enter our body’s cells. Those cells will use the RNA sequence of the antigen to synthesize the protein [2,6]. After this step, the mechanism is similar to classical vaccines: the antigen is presented at the surface of a subset of cells and triggers the activation of specific cells of the immune system (Figure 2).

originally posted by: fleabit
Why is Pence in charge? Why would you not have a doctor, scientist, or someone with experience in dealing with contagions in charge? Baffling move on the part of this (very non-scientific driven) administration.

...because "in charge" means he is the coordinator, single point of contact RESPONSIBLE charge. This is a good move. It does not mean the medical experts wont be running the science response, it means the medical experts can focus entirely on their areas of expertise and not be burning the candle at both ends preparing both the science and the administrative sides of the effort.

This happens a lot on very large engineering projects. Each design element has a Project Manager, they report to a handful of Program Managers who report to a single Contract manager who is the point of contact between the team and the project owner. Program managers and contract managers *can* be engineers, but more often than not they are not... their expertise and background is almost always a business and personal human resources background. Pence is a great fit to lead this effort, truth be told.

originally posted by: IAMTAT
Explanation of IRANIAN outbreak.

How regime officials caused the spread of coronavirus in Iran

Iran, February 24, 2020—Following the coronavirus outbreak in China, most countries cancelled flights to this country to prevent the spread of the deadly virus.

However, Iran’s regime, careless about the risks to the health of the Iranian people, did not take any precautionary measures.

Mahan Air, owned by the terrorist-designated Revolutionary Guards (IRGC), not only continued its flights to China, but also engaged in the transportation of Chinese passengers.

english.mojahedin.org...

Yesterday i wrote this here...Mahan Air used their Wide Bodies full of people in and out of China on a daily basis for weeekkkssss....i heard a couple of them on the same frequency as me sometimes overflying China...mainly with these giant A340-600 and B744full load »»»
www.airpics.net...
www.jetphotos.com...

a reply to: ketsuko

Thank you both.
I was curious about this CV possibly being a "milder" version of something much more lethal.

a reply to: ketsuko

Then I humbly stand corrected.

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: Cmajlz

Why do we need to pay for it?

People will be left at home with instructions and a prayer.

Time to wake up and smell the coffee.

I get where you are coming from but who once to deal with the political fallout when someone dies? This whole thing is political it's not about the people who will be getting the virus. People who get the virus will be a number. This is all about reducing the political fallout for high level people at the State and federal level. I believe they want people to focus on the emotions in the situation and not think logical but believe me the higher ups are thinking logical but from their political view.
That's why they want to just throw money at the problem and hope it goes away with the least amount of inconvenience to them. If people get better, great it's their survival they are primarily interested in. They are a bureaucrat for a reason.

Long time lurker, first time poster.
Just my personal experience here with the N95 masks. At the coal mine/ processing facility I work at here in PA we use the 3m N95 masks as part of our daily ppe. To pick which style is best for new employees we have a "Dust Mask Fit Test" where they spray a fragrance around the mask after you've put it on to test it's seal. The masks need to be tested first off to make sure you understand how to make this seal. Plenty of MSHA training materials on how to properly put your mask on such as:
Never put the bands to the mask over your hard hat since this will adjust while working and thus break the seal
When you put the mask on make sure no facial hair falls on the "lines" of the mask that will break the seal
After putting the mask on your face with both holding bands behind your head press FIRMLY on the metal band across your nose to form fit it to your nose creating the seal
After doing all this you can block the front air intake piece and feel the seal as the mask presses against your face and also if there is a breach you will notice the air sneaking in somewhere
If you notice a pattern here the key point of these masks is to make a seal and never adjust your mask (ex. pull away from face to spit chew, or scratch your nose) or else the mask is basically "useless". I say "useless" because it then creates the illusion in your mind that you're protected but since the seal is broken particulates are just going around the filter and straight into you.
I feel like this training needs to be told to everyone that is stocking up on these to take one out of the pack to test run it with yourself and family members to make sure that everybody understands how to properly wear these. Also the N95 is displaying the percentage of particulates at a certain size and up that are blocked. Like I said working at a coal mine here so it's very clear these don't block everything they just add another barrier. By the time first break rolls around you can usually take this mask off and notice material buildup inside even with a perfect seal. Especially on weekends it's noticeable when you're blowing your nose and coal dust is reappearing. We are all trained on how to wear these and the protections they offer us here, still though it has never been the case that everyone wears them the right way even with this training and testing.
Also I started to advise on stocking up on these masks, since we go through 1-3 a shift and since we're shifting to the "Lean" business style we only keep what we use for a couple weeks on hand, back when Wuhan went bottom up in terms of their supplies. This was laughed at as just another crazy virus that won't effect us. At this point we have enough dust masks to make it through the week with another weeks worth showing up at the end of this week. We can't order more than that because that's it. The way it has been working is that medical industry get's first along with agencies and what is left over after their orders is for the rest of the Industrial side to ration. I say this is it because now we're told that it won't be until the end of May that orders will be shipped. These masks have also risen in price by over 250% since this began. We're currently looking to switch to cartridge based masks but after seeing how quickly the stock has dried up I'd imagine it won't be soon before these are also out of stock.

a reply to: IAMTAT

In response to your original question though, I suppose an example of what you're asking about would be using cow pox as an inoculation against small pox. That was the original vaccine. Someone scraped stuff out of a cow pox sore and you got cow pox. It usually left a scar. Older people would still have those scars today although the method got refined over the years.

It turned out that cow pox was just similar enough to small pox to grant you immunity, and cow pox was nowhere near lethal. So it was obvious what the better disease to have was.

a reply to: DBCowboy

Most vaccines are exactly that way. These are brand new concepts. This one in California and the one out of Australia works off a different idea entirely too. I think the third one we'll see is more traditional one along the lines of how vaccines have always been made.

a reply to: Cmajlz

If it gets to the point where hospitals are sending people home to basically die, then politics will be the least of our worries.

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: Cmajlz

Why do we need to pay for it?

People will be left at home with instructions and a prayer.

Time to wake up and smell the coffee.

Prevention, the same argument when we talk about universal healthcare, with it the focus is on preventative measures which ultimately keeps more people working and paying into the system.

What it comes down to is that you either build the beds acknowledging that they are a necessary overflow precaution and then find functions for them the rest of the time, or you keep whistling past the graveyard and admit you have no room to whine when your luck runs out.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: IAMTAT

In response to your original question though, I suppose an example of what you're asking about would be using cow pox as an inoculation against small pox. That was the original vaccine. Someone scraped stuff out of a cow pox sore and you got cow pox. It usually left a scar. Older people would still have those scars today although the method got refined over the years.

It turned out that cow pox was just similar enough to small pox to grant you immunity, and cow pox was nowhere near lethal. So it was obvious what the better disease to have was.

Helpful history.
TY
Is it possible that Covid 19 could act as a preemptive population inoculation for a more deadly potential Covid 20 (should it ever exist)?

a reply to: hopenotfeariswhatweneed


Prevention???

Kind of locking the barn door after the horses got loose.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Cmajlz

Ok ... so when the pandemic comes we'll just stack patients on cots in the hallway. That worked out super well during Spanish Flu too.

Maybe so. One needed to start 2 years ago to have the increase in beds that will be needed now. One option is to convert beds for cancer patients, heart patients, kidney patients , etc to beds for people with the virus. All elective surgeries will be cancelled. Prioritize the virus over everything else. If it is a national crisis then all other medical conditions must wait. Can't have it both ways. I'm at the extreme as I write this. I'm sure there is some middle ground but people will have to get together and make hard life threatening decisions on how existing beds will be used. I'm not optimistic that will happen and if it does it won't last because everyone will want an exception.

a reply to: IAMTAT

They have so many bat corona viruses in China that it's more likely that this is a lab strain being used either to test their creations or it was a potential vaccine strain itself that went horribly wrong.

Understand, I'm not saying I think it's lab created; I think it's equally likely that with the conditions on the ground in China and the ability for strange things to suddenly erupt there, that mother nature cooked this one up on her own. I'm not really wedded to either theory and don't think at this point the truth on that makes a huge different. It is what it is.

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: Cmajlz

If it gets to the point where hospitals are sending people home to basically die, then politics will be the least of our worries.

With adequate home care they shouldn't die. That is where the resources need to be but not in a new fixed in place hospital bed

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: Cmajlz

Why do we need to pay for it?

People will be left at home with instructions and a prayer.

Time to wake up and smell the coffee.

Prevention, the same argument when we talk about universal healthcare, with it the focus is on preventative measures which ultimately keeps more people working and paying into the system.

Amen. I've been on the prevention bandwagon for years. I believe prevention can and does work. It takes time and constantly repeating the message but it works.

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: Cmajlz

If it gets to the point where hospitals are sending people home to basically die, then politics will be the least of our worries.

There needs to be an effective means of triaging patients so that the ones who don't need to go into the hospital are given what they need to get better on their own.

Realistically, most will beat this on their own without needing medical support. The problem is how many are dependent on running to the doctor for any little hiccup. People need a better means of assessing what is and is not an emergency.