Iranian military war games , Iran isn't another Iraq

Also in the report you quoted

www.csis.org...
.....Iran is still a significant conventional military power by Gulf standards. It has some 540,000 men under arms, and over 350,000 reserves. These include 120,000 Iranian Revolutionary Guards trained for land and naval asymmetric
warfare. Iran’s military also includes holdings of 1,613 main battle tanks, 1,500 other armored fighting vehicles, 3,200 artillery weapons, 306 combat aircraft, 50 attack helicopters, 3 submarines, 59 surface combatants, and 10 amphibious ships.
Iran’s problems in military modernization have been compounded by a number of factors. The vast majority of the combat-trained manpower Iran developed during the Iraq War left military service by the mid-1990s. Iran now has a largely conscript force with limited military training and little combat experience.

I just looked through the csis report , While Iran's army is big for the Middle East much of its communication systems as well as their armor and air force are neither modern or maintained and supplied well by modern military standards. In fact only 580 of its 1,613 tanks could even be considered to be second generation mainly T-72's, most are older designs with part issues to keep them running.

Patrick Garrett, a military analyst at GlobalSecurity.org Speaking about the Republican Guards in Operation Iraqi Freedom:
One particular American advantage is that the Abrams tanks fire a uranium-depleted shell that, Garrett said, "cuts through armor like butter."
In the Persian Gulf War, the Soviet-built T-72s were particularly vulnerable to these shells.
"The T-72 is a death trap," said Garrett. "Nobody could pay me enough money to sit in that tank in a battle."

The parts needed to maintain tanks and aircraft have been hard to come by for Iran. Against a similar nation Iran might be able to put up a good fight but against the top professional military powers I do not think they can hold up defensivly and certainly not on the offense unsless they start using NBC weapons, which would result in swift retaliation against the whole of Iran.

I really dont think it is necessary for an all out war against Iran anyway. With Iraq the objection was to take out the government and all of the military resistance. If Iran refuses to give up on producing nukes then we only need to just set them back every time they get close to completion. That means finding out where the installations are and bombing just those sites.

Originally posted by csulli456
That means finding out where the installations are and bombing just those sites.

Truly, consider what we know and what has been said on this thread.
This would make the U.S. an oprressive autocracy, and we would be openly opposed by any other free countries in the world.
The United States is not.

Originally posted by Tassadar

Originally posted by csulli456
That means finding out where the installations are and bombing just those sites.

Truly, consider what we know and what has been said on this thread.
This would make the U.S. an oprressive autocracy, and we would be openly opposed by any other free countries in the world.
The United States is not.

No offense but I honestly dont know what you are talking about. Could you please explain in greater detail. Thank You.

Originally posted by csulli456
Well I for one dont want anyone in your family or anyone else to die for that matter. I think the Iranian people have a real chance of overting any war if they unite as one and demand there government to get along with the rest of the world. It is quite simple, if they give up there quest for nuclear weapons there will be no reason for anyone to attack. Furthermore if anyone does attack it would probably be Israel and the main targets will be any WMD site there may be.

The European nations as well as the US have tried to make offers so that we may come to an agreement but the Iranian government is stubbron so to speak. If they had no intention of attacking anyone they would not have to worry about the US, that is for sure. We would back them if someone tried to attack and they werent doing anything wrong. Thats what the US stands for, thats why we are all over the world. we arent there to take over. We mainly just want peace.

The US didnt exactly back us during the Iraq war. Even though we were the ones being attacked and Iraq was the aggressor the US backed Iraq. Saddam used chemical weapons against Iran no-one cared. We went to the UN and told them about it but nothing happened.

That war made US grow up and undrestand what the world is about. You can either be the big guy who has weapons to protect itself or the little guy who is manupilated by the big guys.

Originally posted by csulli456As for an air assault by the US, I doubt you as a citizen would have anything to worry about. It would be so fast and so precise, it would be aimed at the wmd facilities only. There would be warnings in advance as allways and with some of our new technology they would never see us coming. There would be no reason for any ground troops and therefore no reason for close air support. it would be done up from so high in the atmosphere no radar would detect them. It would be over very quickly, I think.

So you are going to bomb chemical factories, spread chemical weapons all across the country, and I have nothing to worry about? Well thats a relief. I thought it was going to be another gulf war where you bomb the chemical plants and leave the people to die by their thousands.

Originally posted by csulli456As for protecting our borders, that is a very large subject. We have thousands of miles of borders in the US, it is not like most other countries. I think it would be impossible to completely cover all of that real estate without creating another army so to speak. Anyway we are trying, mabe my government doesnt do enough on that issue, but like I have said before I dont agree with everything they do. I dont think the borders could ever be 100% secure.

You spend half a trillion dollars on your army and you cannot protect your boarder? You spent over 100 billion dollars in Iraq. That is how much other countries spend on their army in a decade or two. That is enough money to protect the boarder without the loss of life. Easy enough solution

Originally posted by csulli456As for other nations sharing our values and not being bombed, wow, I hope I am not getting this right. I hope that mabe I am misunderstanding your point. Because, forgive me if I`m wrong and mabe I am taking what you said out of context unintentionally although, that would be the most ignorant statement I have ever heard. What happened on 3/11 in Spain. What about the Bali nightclub bombings? They are bombing the shyt out of innocent Iraqi people for what reason? They`re not even targeting us as much as they are the Iraqi police and civilians at worship. ANd there are countless other attacks in the Philipines and other nations as I remember reading about throughout the past five years or so.

All these have reasons. There always ways to stop them. For example if people steyed out of Iraq there would be no terrorists attacks there. If people stayed out of Iran it would not be ruled by religous fanatics. If the Mujahedin were not formed there would be no al-Qaede. There are always root to every problem. Finding the roots and trying to solve them requires great amount of thinking and diplomacy. Thinking and diplomacy are hard so people rather just bomb others to get it over with. This creates more and more chaos. These terrorists need to be engaged, talked to, they are not evil or satans, fin their roots solve their problems and you are done (I can assure you their problems arent with you freedom or democracy)

Originally posted by csulli456They do bomb and destroy life everywhere, these terrorists. The whole world is to worry. They care about no one who does not share their fanatical views. I am a Christian, a Catholic, attended religious schooling my whole life, and was never taught to hate anyone especially because they were of a different religion or culture. America is made up of hundreds if not thousands of religions and cultures. We dont all share the exact same views on things but we do share a common interest in keeping our people safe. I dont believe personally that it really matters what religion you choose in life. I think no matter even if one was the correct one, God loves all. And so long as we lead a good life meaning we care about others and respect each other we will be with him in the end.

I have attened religious schools all my life as well. It is ammasing the close relationship between the diffrent religions. These terrorists are not attacking you because of you religion or culture. They are attacking you because they are getting paid to. Bush said that war on terror is against "hateful groups that exploit poverty and despair." Destory this poverty and this despair and you have nothing to worry about.

Originally posted by csulli456These fanatics killed people I knew. They killed them for no good reason in the universe. There was no warning so that innocents could get out of the way. They didnt just bomb a military installation. They took out my friend a firefighter because he cared so much about others lives that he risked his own to protect them. Michael Lynch was one of many brave men and women who went into the towers to try to rescue those injured and those who could not get out. He died when the towers came crashing down. He was a young man with his whole life ahead of him, he was soon to be married, he deejayed my uncles 60th birthday party for us. He was a great guy and didnt deserve to die in such a violent manner.

I am very sorry for you loss. The loss of human lives are always truely tragic.

Originally posted by csulli456There are thousands of other stories just like this one. Every one of them were killed for no reason. their lives were taken by fanatics who believe only their own beliefs are sufficient in life and that anyone else deserved to die. Thats not how I was rasied, i was raised to respect everyone. But I have no respect for any ruthless killer even if they stand behind a religion to blanket their deeds as good. I will never forget September 11, 2001 and all I have to say is either get out of our way in our quest to stop the terrorist bastards or beware of the consequences. War is horrible.

You cannot "get rid of the terrorist bastards" by bombing countries. There are three things you can do. Either hide behind huge walls. Get out and kill everyone in site and call it a war on terror. Engage the people and terrorists supporters. Talk to them and try to fix their problems. First option will probebly work. Second is not good. Only creates hatred and will lead to nowhere. Third is the best.

[edit on 13-3-2005 by Sep]

Anyone trying to say that Iran stands a chance vs the US is just plain ignorant.

They can't win a conventional war vs the US and that is a fact.

Video's: iranatom.ru...
Pictures: iranatom.ru...

www.globalsecurity.org...




1)
No place for weapons of mass destruction in Iran`s military doctrine: envoy

Iran`s Permanent Deputy Representative to the United Nations Mehdi Danesh Yazdi here on Monday stressed that nuclear weapons and other weapons of mass destruction have no place in Iranian military doctrine because they run against its religious beliefs and commitments under the nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT).

2)

Rafsanjani says Iran`s military capabilities defensive

America`s aim is to besiege Iran in the region, Rafsanjani said
adding "while now it is the US and its forces that are besieged."
The US`s anti-Iran plans are mere illusions and ineffective,
the EC head underlined.

3)
American soldiers have no experiences with being taregeted from the air .
Until now , all USA's wars were against countries that don't have air arsenals .


4)
Iran helped USA in entering Afghanistan to remove Talban , and to enter Iraq to remove Saddam .
The both countries were not powerful , they can be easly loose a war against USA .They didn't have a respected military and economy .
So I don't see something unusual in USA's victory .


5)
The Pasdaran (Revolutionary guards) are 350,000 .
The Basij (Volunteers) are : 200,000 armed and can reach 3,000,000 (which have some military training) .
Until now 10,000,000 are registered in the Basij .
The goal is to reach 20,000,000 individual .



6)
Iran have pro-IRI militias in neighbour countries where there is american bases and interests :
Iraq : Faylak Badr .
Lebanon : Hezbullah .
Afghanistan : Some parties and tribes .



7)
In the both countries (Iraq and Afghanistan), the people were against their governements , they didn't resist the occupiers and in some cases they helped them .

Inspite the problems between the IRI system and the iranian people , there isn't an iranian that will accept his country being invaded and millions of his people get killed and others face torture and rape , like in Iraq , so he/she can get a beer or remove her veil .
There isn't a respected number of Iranians that count on an american invasion
to remove the IRI . It is only Bush' propaganda .



The problems between the IRI and the reformers is a problem between the Iranian people , and there isn't any country that have the right to interfer between them , including USA .

Iranian don't trust USA . This is an old article which might help explain why many people are suspecious of the policy of the US.
www.nytimes.com...





.

[edit on 14-3-2005 by XLEGIONS]

1) No place for weapons of mass destruction in Iran`s military doctrine: envoy .

That's nice to hear....but the proof is in the verification. Trust but verify. Not gonna take you on your word on that.

2) Rafsanjani says Iran`s military capabilities defensive.

Uh Ok
3) American soldiers have no experiences with being taregeted from the air. Until now , all USA's wars were against countries that don't have air arsenals .

Hey! I thought all of Iran's military capabilities were defensive???? See why it is hard to believe!! If you think that Iran's far older and far less experienced airforce will be able to target US troops from the skies above, one of us will be in for a rude awakening and it's not me.

4)
Iran helped USA in entering Afghanistan to remove Talban , and to enter Iraq to remove Saddam .
The both countries were not powerful , they can be easly loose a war against USA .They didn't have a respected military and economy .
So I don't see something unusual in USA's victory


Couldn't have done it without you! Thanks!

I should finish but work needs to be done.

Peace my friend

[edit on 14-3-2005 by pavil]

[edit on 14-3-2005 by pavil]

[edit on 14-3-2005 by pavil]

Was it a serious answer pavil , or just lousy sarcasm (no offense)

Originally posted by pavil

Originally posted by XLEGIONS
1) No place for weapons of mass destruction in Iran`s military doctrine: envoy .

That's nice to hear....but the proof is in the verification. Trust but verify. Not gonna take you on your word on that.

Prove that they want to have WMD weapons .
Will you just attack them because you aren't sure about their intentions ?

Originally posted by pavil

Originally posted by XLEGIONS
2) Rafsanjani says Iran`s military capabilities defensive.

Uh Ok

This means that they don't want to initiate wars .

Originally posted by pavil

Originally posted by XLEGIONS
3) American soldiers have no experiences with being taregeted from the air. Until now , all USA's wars were against countries that don't have air arsenals .

Hey! I thought all of Iran's military capabilities were defensive???? See why it is hard to believe!! If you think that Iran's far older and far less experienced airforce will be able to target US troops from the skies above, one of us will be in for a rude awakening and it's not me.

In case of a USA aggression , Iran must be ready to confront the aggression .
It is obvious that countries have right to defend themselves and this will not be offense .So your statement "Hey! I thought all of Iran's military capabilities were defensive , See why it is hard to believe " isn't in the right place .

It was just an opinion , that USA soldiers may have a vulnerability when attacked by air due to their inexperience .
It was in response to :

Originally posted by Justanotherperson
Remember, they have been at war with Iraq for awhile. I don't care if you have the most advanced military in the world, that will never replace actual experience.

.

Originally posted by pavil

Originally posted by XLEGIONS
Iran helped USA in entering Afghanistan to remove Talban , and to enter Iraq to remove Saddam .
The both countries were not powerful , they can be easly loose a war against USA .They didn't have a respected military and economy .
So I don't see something unusual in USA's victory

Couldn't have done it without you! Thanks!

rrogance kills , do not be the victim .



Peace .



[edit on 14-3-2005 by XLEGIONS]

Originally posted by csulli456
Well I for one dont want anyone in your family or anyone else to die for that matter. I think the Iranian people have a real chance of overting any war if they unite as one and demand there government to get along with the rest of the world. It is quite simple, if they give up there quest for nuclear weapons there will be no reason for anyone to attack. Furthermore if anyone does attack it would probably be Israel and the main targets will be any WMD site there may be.

The European nations as well as the US have tried to make offers so that we may come to an agreement but the Iranian government is stubbron so to speak. If they had no intention of attacking anyone they would not have to worry about the US, that is for sure. We would back them if someone tried to attack and they werent doing anything wrong. Thats what the US stands for, thats why we are all over the world. we arent there to take over. We mainly just want peace.

They only asking you to leave them alone .
They have the right to have a civil nuclear technology .
Nuclear Science isn't only for Americans .

As for the WMD , these kinds of weapons are prohibited by shiite islamic law .
WMD take the lifes of many innocents and non military civilians and this is against the islamic law to fight the non military .

Originally posted by csulli456
As for other nations sharing our values and not being bombed, wow, I hope I am not getting this right. I hope that mabe I am misunderstanding your point. Because, forgive me if I`m wrong and mabe I am taking what you said out of context unintentionally although, that would be the most ignorant statement I have ever heard. What happened on 3/11 in Spain. What about the Bali nightclub bombings? They are bombing the shyt out of innocent Iraqi people for what reason? They`re not even targeting us as much as they are the Iraqi police and civilians at worship. ANd there are countless other attacks in the Philipines and other nations as I remember reading about throughout the past five years or so.

And where is Iran here ?
What you mentioned are the actions of the Salafi/Wahabi/Deobandies , that are the British/CIA rotten fruits .
You created Taliban and Al Qaeda , you shall deal with them .
Iran faciliated for USA to get rid of Taliban in Afghanistan and to get rid of Saddam (another Wahabi) in Iraq .

So USA should be thankfull for them because they helped it to fight the devils it maked .

Originally posted by csulli456
They do bomb and destroy life everywhere, these terrorists. The whole world is to worry. They care about no one who does not share their fanatical views. I am a Christian, a Catholic, attended religious schooling my whole life, and was never taught to hate anyone especially because they were of a different religion or culture. America is made up of hundreds if not thousands of religions and cultures. We dont all share the exact same views on things but we do share a common interest in keeping our people safe. I dont believe personally that it really matters what religion you choose in life. I think no matter even if one was the correct one, God loves all. And so long as we lead a good life meaning we care about others and respect each other we will be with him in the end.

If you think that christians and jews are only the casualities of those fanatics , so you are wrong .

Muslims and particulary shias are also between the casualities of the wahabis .
Google on these :
"Shia Killing In Pakistan"
"Shia Killing in Iraq"
"Shia"+"Wahabis"

And don't forget who maked the wahabis in the first place
.

We don't have any problem with other religions .
If you think otherwise , so open a new thread about it .

Originally posted by csulli456
These fanatics killed people I knew. They killed them for no good reason in the universe. There was no warning so that innocents could get out of the way. They didnt just bomb a military installation. They took out my friend a firefighter because he cared so much about others lives that he risked his own to protect them. Michael Lynch was one of many brave men and women who went into the towers to try to rescue those injured and those who could not get out. He died when the towers came crashing down. He was a young man with his whole life ahead of him, he was soon to be married, he deejayed my uncles 60th birthday party for us. He was a great guy and didnt deserve to die in such a violent manner.

When 9/11 hapened , there wasn't "Death to America" after the fridays prayers .
The iranian people lighted up candles .

In the Bam earthquake , Iran accepted the help of the american team .

When it will come to humanitarian relations , there isn't problem to deal with the USA .
When it will be "I'll eat you today because I think you'll eat me tomorrow" , then Iran have the right to defend itself .

If you want peace then there isn't something to get afraid off . Let USA show some true peace intentions to the current regime and they would find them friendly .

Until now there is no trust in current USA governement that surely don't represents the americans' love for peace .

Originally posted by csulli456
There are thousands of other stories just like this one. Every one of them were killed for no reason. their lives were taken by fanatics who believe only their own beliefs are sufficient in life and that anyone else deserved to die. Thats not how I was rasied, i was raised to respect everyone. But I have no respect for any ruthless killer even if they stand behind a religion to blanket their deeds as good. I will never forget September 11, 2001 and all I have to say is either get out of our way in our quest to stop the terrorist bastards or beware of the consequences. War is horrible.

As for the respect , no one have respect for those fanatics .

War is horrible , so because of that we don't want to see USA soldiers dying for nothing in ME . Iran isn't a threat for USA .





.

Originally posted by XLEGIONS



They only asking you to leave them alone .
They have the right to have a civil nuclear technology .
Nuclear Science isn't only for Americans .

As for the WMD , these kinds of weapons are prohibited by shiite islamic law .
WMD take the lifes of many innocents and non military civilians and this is against the islamic law to fight the non military .

I appreciate your respective views. Iran has an absolute right to nuclear technology for cleaner energy, but we worry that if they make nuclear weapons they can fall into the hands of terrorists. I for one dont think the problem is with Iran but with the terrorists who may get the nukes. From what I understand the Europeans and US have offered a way so that they can produce nuclear energy without the ability to make weapons. I am no expert and can only state what I read. However I believe it is Russia who would supply them with the uranium to run the plants and then would take back the spent fuel rods when they are finished with them. It is these rods that can be used for enriched uranium and thus used to produce weapons.


Iran has turned down such offers which can only lead to some speculation of their true interests. If they have no beef with us or anyone else the terms being offered seem completely reasonable. Like I said if they would be more willing to work with the rest of the world there wouldnt be problems in these areas. Furthermore I personally think cooler heads will prevail. I dont believe there will be a war between Iran and US.

Originally posted by XLegions
And where is Iran here ?

I also never mentioned that Iran was behind any bombings. What I said was in response to a statement that said only US has been terrorist target. I was refering to all of the other places that have been targeted as well.

Originally posted by XLegions
If you think that christians and jews are only the casualities of those fanatics , so you are wrong .

Muslims and particulary shias are also between the casualities of the wahabis .
Google on these :
"Shia Killing In Pakistan"
"Shia Killing in Iraq"
"Shia"+"Wahabis"

I also never stated that christians and jews were only targeted. You have not been reading all of what I wrote. Please do not take what I say out of context. My only ambition in life is truth. I have made large references to the Iraqi people who are targeted by these bastards. They kill Iraqis at worship in mosques. They kill Iraqis who are working as police to safeguard there own and ultimately send the US home. I dont want my troops there. But I do think Iraq needs them now and we should help them as much as possible.

Originally posted by XLegions
When 9/11 hapened , there wasn't "Death to America" after the fridays prayers .
The iranian people lighted up candles .

In the Bam earthquake , Iran accepted the help of the american team .

When it will come to humanitarian relations , there isn't problem to deal with the USA .
When it will be "I'll eat you today because I think you'll eat me tomorrow" , then Iran have the right to defend itself .

You are absolutely right about the support we got from the world after 9/11. ANd that is why I said I think cooler heads will prevail. Like I said earlier Iran is not the threat nor has ever been, it is the terrorists. That is why we dont want there to be nukes in Iran. We know the terrorists are in the neighborhood and will ultimately get what tey want one way or another. It only takes one corrupt individual to help out the terrorists. We support your need for a cleaner technology, this process can be achieved so long as we work together to make sure nukes are not developed


Please read all I have stated, I want you to understand my views. Your previous post in my opinion did not lead me to believe you understood what I was saying. I love my country, yes 100%. Do I believe in all policies, no. But I do believe as a result of 9/11 we live in a much different world. There is no conspiracy here in America that we must do away with Iran. The conspiracy is in the minds of the terrorists that conspire to kill me and my family everyday. It is real here. I live in NYC, I know. We have to be very careful on all fronts and that is why we need iran`s help. Help in the form of not making nukes. That is all we want. Our governments must work together.

Originally posted by XLegions
You created Taliban and Al Qaeda , you shall deal with them .
Iran faciliated for USA to get rid of Taliban in Afghanistan and to get rid of Saddam (another Wahabi) in Iraq .

Also please dont blast my America by saying we created these terrorists. You dont see me going to China and blowing up innocent people there because that country works for lower wages and thus many american jobs have moved there. The world is constantly changing and all inhabitants must learn to adjust on many levels. There is no excuse for these terrorists whatever you may think. We have to stop them that is our number one priority. We said it before and I will state it again, "Either you are with us or you are against us". Work with us here. War is horrible.




[edit on 3-15-2005 by ProudAmerican]

[edit on 15-3-2005 by csulli456]

Please everyone visit this site and see the pictures and videos. It might open your eyes a bit.
www.network54.com...

Originally posted by csulli456
but we worry that if they make nuclear weapons they can fall into the hands of terrorists. I for one dont think the problem is with Iran but with the terrorists who may get the nukes.

[edit on 3-15-2005 by ProudAmerican]

if that was the case how come terrorists dont have chemical weapons since iran have lots of them,
and they are just as deadly

the whole im wooried terrorists might get nukes from iran is just bull ****

Originally posted by bodrul

Originally posted by csulli456
but we worry that if they make nuclear weapons they can fall into the hands of terrorists. I for one dont think the problem is with Iran but with the terrorists who may get the nukes.

[edit on 3-15-2005 by ProudAmerican]

if that was the case how come terrorists dont have chemical weapons since iran have lots of them,
and they are just as deadly

the whole im wooried terrorists might get nukes from iran is just bull ****

Please - first of all do not compare chemical weapons to nuclear ones. Ther is NO comparison.

Secondly, Iran has said ON MANY OCCASIONS that they want to destroy Isreal.

Now, why do you think they have not done it yet?

It's simple - because Isreal holds a nuclear advantage.

And besides, it is not just the Iranian government you have to worry about - it is the individuals working for them. Their government is based on a religion that, depending on an individuals interpritation, can say to KILL all non muslims.

You can't argue that - it's fact. You also can't argue that the US is the #1 target of everyone who subscribes to that belief. That is fact.

So, why in the flying # should my country take a chance? I'd rather go in and take out that problem now, rather then wait to see if 5 million people get vaporised in NYC.

Unfortunatly, a smoking gun in this case would be one that killed millions of Americans (or Britts). I am not willing to take that chance.

Originally posted by American Mad Man


You can't argue that - it's fact. You also can't argue that the US is the #1 target of everyone who subscribes to that belief. That is fact.

So, why in the flying # should my country take a chance? I'd rather go in and take out that problem now, rather then wait to see if 5 million people get vaporised in NYC.

Unfortunatly, a smoking gun in this case would be one that killed millions of Americans (or Britts). I am not willing to take that chance.

Thank you American Mad Man. That is exactly what we dont want to happen.

Originally posted by bodrul


the whole im wooried terrorists might get nukes from iran is just bull ****

You are obviously very uneducated on this topic and not so knowledgeable either in the area of basic human psychology. We will not allow anyone to threaten our security. If you stand in our way we will plow through you. We dont want to do it this way but if we have to we will. Our resolve is very strong on these issues in regards to our safety.

I live in NYC I have seen the terror first hand. I was in Manhattan on September 13,2001 and all the way uptown crossing a bridge to 125st when I smelled the horrific odor of burnt human flesh. Do not attempt to tell me I have nothing to worry about. It is your society that has produced these fanatical cowards, not mine. They live in your neighborhoods more then anywhere else in the world. Get your facts straight. Either you are with us or against us, make up your mind real fast.

If the United States of America loses this war against Iran, I'm going to kill myself.

Originally posted by AssGoblins
If the United States of America loses this war against Iran, I'm going to kill myself.

First of all I dont think there will be a war agaist Iran. I do think Iran will comply with the rest of the world and will eventually become an ally to the US. Secondly if that is the only conclusion to bring you to an early demise, I believe you will live a very long life.

Originally posted by stumason

We, essentially, made mincemeat of the Iraqi military. Ergo sum ... We would make mincemeat of the Irani military.

You forget that the Iraqi Army was decimated by years of sanctions and the Generals you bought off and betrayed their men. The Iranians on the other hand have not had such restrictions. They themselves could have rolled over Iraq at any time as well with what they have now.

I stand by my original statement... Having been involved in some of that, years ago. Iranian Military would be out of the saddle very quickly.

History is an interesting subject, but not nearly so conclusive if you do not have all of the pieces, stumason.

To end this topic once and for all, Iran does not stand a chance.

As of 2000 it was estimated that only 40 of the 132 F-4Ds, 177 F-4Es and 16 RF-4E. Phantoms delivered before 1979 remained in service. At that time, approximately 45 of the 169 F-5E/Fs delivered are still flying, while perhaps 20 F-14A Tomcats of the 79 initially delivered were airworthy. Another 30 F-4s, 30 F-5s and 35 F-14s have been cannibalized for spare parts. One report suggested that the IRIAF can get no more than seven F-14s airborne at any one time.

An unknown number of "new" Su-25s were delivered to the Iranian Revolution Guards Corps Air Force (IRGCAF) in 2003. Where these Frogfoots originate from is unclear.

In July 2003 Chengdu Aircraft Industrial Corporation (CAIC) unveiled the new ‘Super-7’ or Chao Qi fighter plane to the public. The new Super-7 is “an all-purpose light fighter, required to have all-weather operation capabilities, be capable of performing the dual tasks of dogfight and air-to-ground attack, and have the ability to launch medium-range missiles. Mass production of the fighter will not begin until two and a half years of research are completed. The plane is being produced to be sold abroad to developing nations. China already has received orders from Iran and some African countries.

There have been reports of some 10 F-8Ms, 7 Tu-22Ms, 19 MIG-27s, and several MIG-31s being present in Iran, but these are not confirmed.

www.globalsecurity.org...

So we are talking about at most - what 150 or 200 fighters? Yeah OK. I guess that means that we can leave the USAF at home because the Navy alone has more fighters then them - all of which are better.

Armed forces personnel: 513,000

www.nationmaster.com...

The US has WELL over a million.

If you take into account draftable ages the margin becomes in the tens of millions in the US favor.

They use the Russian T-72 as their MBT. The American Abrahms has proven to dominate these.

So lets get this settled here.

The US has 3 or 4 times the number of military personnel.

The US Navy alone has many times the number of planes of all of Iran - and every one is better.

The USAF has nearly 10 times the number of planes, and again - every single one is better.

The US army is around equal to the size of the entire Iranian armed forces - and again, all of their equipment is better.

The US has MUCH better training then the Iranian military.

This whole thread is a joke. Iran doesn't stand a chance against the US. Everyone knows it but the extreme US haters can't admit it.

Personally, part of me almost hopes Iran attacks the US in Iraq, just so we don't have to pussy foot around any more.