The Universe Creating Itself From Nothing

originally posted by: Barcs

originally posted by: Willtell
We can say that at one point nothing existed in the sense that nothing only means—NO THING

No entity, no human, no car, no god, no mouse, no solar system, no sun, no moon, etc.

But there were certain forces or rudimentary infinite elements that were in existence but they weren’t formed into any THING.

We evolved out of these infinite rudimentary elements into THINGS


That's the only way one can get something from nothing. Nothing only means NO THING


THING=entity, human, car, god, dog, mouse, solar system, sun, moon, etc

Why wouldn't what existed previous to all that be considered a thing? Are infinite rudimentary elements not things?

Yes and no. Remember everything is relative.

They may not be what is known as a HOLON, or entity: human, dog, car, mouse, computer…etc. This stratum is the fundamental material that all, more COMPLEX THINGS are made of. Even science may be a million years from even discovering this or more likely they never will.

But ultimately as I said, there’s no such thing as nothing. Just NO ( more complex) THINGS

There are levels of material reality all the way to relative invisibility.

originally posted by: carsforkids
Isn't it true that there is no mechanism that can produce innovations in form and complexity.?

That is false, not to mention off topic.

I suppose you might say we were made in the image of evolution regarding the
origination of our biological form?

I certainly would not say that.

originally posted by: Hammaraxx
a reply to: Barcs
Can you imagine a state of absolutely nothing?
The possibility that creation was actually creation?
I'm seriously asking, because I can.

how about the possibility that the universe began as a very chunky fart from a black hole?

Let’s face it, the only logical way to imagine the creation of the universe is an infinite God of some sort.

Only because we know that intelligence has to be behind the intricate and complexed human experience.

In that regard, then, even death is a creation as life, as we know it, on this planet is a creation as well.

Life is more existential than death logically because we have been conscious of life more than death.


The Andalusian Philosopher mystic, Ibn Arabi says:

Everything is God, in the final analysis.

It has to be in order to have been in existence

I know the op may be frustrated in that we aren’t concentrating on his premise of realizing or imagining “nothing.”

Actually, this is from a Buddhist philosophical idea that in a certain sense reality is realizing nothingness.

But, the age-old problem of literalism here raises its ugly head.

How can one realize nothingness from somethingness—that’s is consciousness.

Impossible. Unless nothingness is understood in the context of relativity and perspective.

Then nothingness inside of human consciousness has a reality behind it.

One can realize the absence of something( contextual nothingness) but not the complete fact of nothingness, for then one wouldn’t even exist.

Everything comes from a seed.

a reply to: TzarChasm

how about the possibility that the universe began as a very chunky fart from a black hole?

Is that what you really think or is that what they want you think? ll
Least someone has a sense of humor around here!

a reply to: carsforkids

A white fart eh?

Feck knows what the black hole has been eating. LoL

Another Universe and other space-time?

That's the point i suppose, we never can know.

originally posted by: TzarChasm
how about the possibility that the universe began as a very chunky fart from a black hole?

And if it did, where did that gas filled black hole come from?

originally posted by: Willtell
Let’s face it, the only logical way to imagine the creation of the universe is an infinite God of some sort.

Only because we know that intelligence has to be behind the intricate and complexed human experience.

In that regard, then, even death is a creation as life, as we know it, on this planet is a creation as well.

Life is more existential than death logically because we have been conscious of life more than death.


The Andalusian Philosopher mystic, Ibn Arabi says:

Everything is God, in the final analysis.

It has to be in order to have been in existence

I am in agreement with mystic, Ibn Arabi.
At least with those last two lines.

Back to the god of Abraham who is revealed to be both Alpha and Omega. The beginning and the end.

What was before Alpha?
If Alpha and Omega are combined in the consciousness of God I say it's possible that the Omega component was responsible for the creation, the inevitable appearance of Alpha.

a reply to: Willtell
We can still breath while imagining walking on the Moon or on Mars without a space suite.
Imagination has no boundaries and I still exist even when imagining a state of complete nothing.

OK... Let's try this. It's not the same but close.

Imagine you have a spaceship that can travel so fast that you were able to go beyond the boundaries of the universe.

As you look back towards where you came from, you view the last of the light dissapear as the universe is now so far away that it is no longer visible.

Apart from your own spacecraft, there is nothing to see, feel, smell or hear.

You now have nothing to indicate how fast you are traveling, what direction you are traveling or even pointing towards.

If you could follow that and don't feel the need to tell me that would be impossible then good job. You are close to being able to imagine a state where nothing at all exists. You pretty much did.

originally posted by: one4all
Everything comes from a seed.

And that seed may have been a single Negatrine that had traveled from the future.

originally posted by: Willtell
Let’s face it, the only logical way to imagine the creation of the universe is an infinite God of some sort.

How is it logical to make up an explanation backed by no evidence whatsoever?

Only because we know that intelligence has to be behind the intricate and complexed human experience.

No, we don't know that.

a reply to: Hammaraxx

Nothing tops the unbelievable like:

'First there was nothing...then it exploded'.

Can't happen.

A higher authority was and is involved - like it or not.

originally posted by: silo13
a reply to: Hammaraxx

Nothing tops the unbelievable like:

'First there was nothing...then it exploded'.

Can't happen.

A higher authority was and is involved - like it or not.

I do like it.
I'm also saying that it's quite possible that part of that higher intelligence, the negatrines, travel backwards in time. It was a negatrine that by nature of its appearance in the nothing that necessarily caused the creation of a positrine and the beginnings of creation.

I once had a pretty deep discussion with a friend, the bass player in my band actually. He asked me how I thought the universe would end, not when but how.

Have you ever answered a question and learn from your own answer at the same time as if the answer came from somewhere else? It felt like one of those moments.

My answer was: when every molecule in the universe becomes aware of every other molecule in the universe and there is nothing left for novelty or anything new, it will be time to reflect on what has been. That will be the end.

I now think that reflecting on what has been is what informs the great intelligence, God, what will be. Omega is in every bit of existence in the tiny form of a Negatrine.

Nothing = virtual particles fluctuating in an timeless environment = all different states at once = something

Nothing to imagine but not nothing as in nothing.

From the link you provided earlier:

The Zohar explains the term "Ein Sof" as follows:
Before He gave any shape to the world, before He produced any form, He was alone, without form and without resemblance to anything else.
Who then can comprehend how He was before the Creation? Hence it is forbidden to lend Him any form or similitude, or even to call Him by His sacred name, or to indicate Him by a single letter or a single point...

we must bring in Mysticism to try capture the thinking found in MetaPhysics in describing the the mysteries we are discovering in the Quantum Realms of Reality (also termed Dimensions by others)
the Pill i swallowed looks at the first verses of Genesis for the meaning or description of 'Nothing' 'Nil' in the start of Creation, which was accomplished in 7 stages:

In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

~when God created Heaven Earth..the Infinite-Consciousness created Space-Time...Which was referred to a deep and waters in sentences 2 & 3

also in day One, the 'darkness' which engulfed the deep was divided into 'Light & Dark' (thus was 'time' established) because the 'light' that came later, by another action taken by the Spirit-of-God, which was, moving upon the face of the waters to create Light

when God first conceived of heaven & earth, they were created (in theory only) but not yet even established as realities, they were both just future end products, being unrealized Yet.
.= his last act of Day One was -> bringing about a supernatural Light = the Stars and Nuclear Forces were later made.

the creator/God/Infinite Consciousness...started the creation in conceiving a formless Earth & Heavens & his Starting Point was the Big Bang first seconds of hyper inflation and the 1/2 Blillion years of Star-Galaxy formation from the Background-Radiation Field separating from the observable universe....

This is too long a post already, think in terms of a molecular cloud of consciousness that is/was the creator entity... an Idea that has no substance being fashioned from nothingness and your getting the gist of what i mean

keep up the dialogues....

a reply to: St Udio
I think Genesis, and the notions of Ein Sof are very similar, and seem to suggest an Emanationist construct.
I find it amazing that ancient people could come up with explanations, that if interpreted for essential meanings, align with modern understanding.

originally posted by: St Udio
From the link you provided earlier:

The Zohar explains the term "Ein Sof" as follows:
Before He gave any shape to the world, before He produced any form, He was alone, without form and without resemblance to anything else.
Who then can comprehend how He was before the Creation? Hence it is forbidden to lend Him any form or similitude, or even to call Him by His sacred name, or to indicate Him by a single letter or a single point...

we must bring in Mysticism to try capture the thinking found in MetaPhysics in describing the the mysteries we are discovering in the Quantum Realms of Reality (also termed Dimensions by others)
the Pill i swallowed looks at the first verses of Genesis for the meaning or description of 'Nothing' 'Nil' in the start of Creation, which was accomplished in 7 stages:

In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

 

~when God created Heaven Earth..the Infinite-Consciousness created Space-Time...Which was referred to a deep and waters in sentences 2 & 3

also in day One, the 'darkness' which engulfed the deep was divided into 'Light & Dark' (thus was 'time' established) because the 'light' that came later, by another action taken by the Spirit-of-God, which was, moving upon the face of the waters to create Light

when God first conceived of heaven & earth, they were created (in theory only) but not yet even established as realities, they were both just future end products, being unrealized Yet.
.= his last act of Day One was -> bringing about a supernatural Light = the Stars and Nuclear Forces were later made.

the creator/God/Infinite Consciousness...started the creation in conceiving a formless Earth & Heavens & his Starting Point was the Big Bang first seconds of hyper inflation and the 1/2 Blillion years of Star-Galaxy formation from the Background-Radiation Field separating from the observable universe....

This is too long a post already, think in terms of a molecular cloud of consciousness that is/was the creator entity... an Idea that has no substance being fashioned from nothingness and your getting the gist of what i mean

keep up the dialogues....

Does it say that he *created* light? No it doesnt. It just say that he said let there be light and there was light. Not that he created light. Not that it was "supernatural" in any way. Which, in practical terms means that he said that about 8 minutes and 20 seconds after the Sun was created and that he used fundamental laws of physics that most likely existed beforehand.

Think about that for a moment.