The American Civil War of 2005 as predicted by John Titor

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird

Originally posted by FernandoPoo
Waco type events could better be described as Naked abuse of federal powers. This could explain the inclusion of Ruby Ridge and Elian later in the discusion. The consequences of the ATF raid on Waco brought a new outrage to what people already believed was a goverment out of control.

If Titor mean Waco type events as just abuse of power or police brutality then he would have used some other examples beside Waco. He didn't. So that leaves us with the conclusion that a Waco type event is an event like unto Waco.
Pitting a group of people against the Government in an event in which both sides actually fight. If Titor meant something less than that, then why would he mention Waco? And if Waco didn't cause a civil war, why would anyone thing anything less than Waco would cause one?

Great post FernandoPoo.

ThatsJustWeird, to understand what John Titor meant with "Waco-type event" it will be helpful to take other quotes with regards to Waco under consideration.

If I would tell you about a "Watergate-type event" you would probably think of politics, a National televised huge investigation, wiretaps, the CIA and FBI, the Senate, Deep Throat, the anti-war movement and a resigning President, whilst I was only referring to abuse of power by authorities toward the goal of undermining public opposition which can be applicaple to academic and business circles in general.

In that case I would have mentioned a "greater event" as you would see it to point to "less greater events" in your point of view. And so it is with John Titor's "Waco-type event."

So what did John Titor mean with his "Waco-type event?" Let's hear it from Titor himself:

John Titor
"Have you see the documentary on Waco? Just for argument's sake, what do you think would happen if information were discovered that confirmed the worst accusations made against the law enforcement officers there? Would you hope nothing?

So clearly John Titor referred to the method of action used by law enforcement when he mentioned Waco and "Waco-type events."

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
When he mentioned Ruby Ridge and Elian, he was talking about how the media would cover the civil war. He said they would cover the war like that covered those events.

As already has been shown many times on this thread to you, your statement is not true. So why repeating a lie over and over ThatsJustWeird?

Here's what John Titor said:

John Titor
"I don't remember a great deal about media coverage during the civil conflicts. I would probably characterize it the same way you see coverage of Waco, Ruby Ridge and Elian Gonzalez."

So the truth is: Words as “don’t remember a great deal” and “probably” leave us only to speculate. John Titor could not specifically tell us if these civil conflicts would be covered by the mass media.

[edit on 20-12-2005 by Roth Joint]

Originally posted by Roth Joint
So what did John Titor mean with his "Waco-type event?" Let's hear it from Titor himself:

John Titor
"Have you see the documentary on Waco? Just for argument's sake, what do you think would happen if information were discovered that confirmed the worst accusations made against the law enforcement officers there? Would you hope nothing?

So clearly John Titor referred to the method of action used by law enforcement when he mentioned Waco and "Waco-type events."

You keep quoting that, but you're not even reading it

Titor there is asking a question, not describing anything. Don't just quote that, answer the question!
If the worst accusations were true (and the worse accusatiosn were that they started the shooting and the fires), how would you feel?

That's all Titor is asking. He in no way is describing a Waco type event, he's talking about what happened at Waco.

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
When he mentioned Ruby Ridge and Elian, he was talking about how the media would cover the civil war. He said they would cover the war like that covered those events.

As already has been shown many times on this thread to you, your statement is not true. So why repeating a lie over and over ThatsJustWeird?
......
So the truth is: Words as “don’t remember a great deal” and “probably” leave us only to speculate. John Titor could not specifically tell us if these civil conflicts would be covered by the mass media.

You're really reaching now Roth.
I said when he mentioned those other events, he was talking about the media, and that's it. People keep saying that he mentioned those events in a different context.
The question was How will the media cover those events. He responded with what you quoted above.
That's it. That's the only time he mentioned those events, when he was talking about the media. That's all I'm saying.
So, how exactly am I lying?

Who cares if he says he doesn't remember a great deal, the fact is those events immediately popped into his mind when the question was asked (or he wouldn't have mentioned them). Which means the media, from what he could remember, covered those events like those. Answer this Roth, how did the media cover those events? And is that media coverage equal to what's going on now?


____

Again, it's 2006 (basically). Titor himself said that the war would have grown now.

What happens in 2006 Titor?

From the age of 8 to 12, we lived away from the cities and spent most of our time in a farm community with other families avoiding conflict with the federal police and national guard. By that time, it was pretty clear that we were not going back to what we had and the division between the cities and the country was well defined.

So....
1. They're avoiding conflict. Which means the war, entering into it's third year, has grown to the point where it's dangerous and people are leaving the cities to avoid conflict.

2 . The division between cities and the country was well defined. Meaning, the division (division in this case meaning hatred, irreconcilable differences) between cities and the country is well defined.

You mentioned 2004 earlier, what was to happen in 2004 Titor?

The civil war in the United States will start in 2004.

A civil war? Hmmm....so how was it supposed to start?

I would describe it as having a Waco type event every month that steadily gets worse.

"Steadily gets worse"?
Meaning the second event is worse than the first, the third is worse than the second, the fourth is worse than the third, etc. right?
So.....why hasn't that happened?

Every worldline is unique...........I can make changes here that would make this worldline different from mine but so can you..............Therefore, any "prediction" I might make has a slight chance of being incorrect anyway and you now have the ability to act on it based on what I've said.

Which was the whole point of this anyway I take it. To show us what could happen if we keep being nonchalant about our gov, politics, world affairs, etc.

Well, thanks for your time Titor

tick tock

tick tock



its 12/20, and no war. What will the titorites resort to on 1/1/06 ? we'll have to wait and see, my bet is on twisting words and logic, denying facts, and desperate reaches comparing every little thing to a war.

should be entertaining anyway.


I wonder if any of them will concede he was a hoax ?

Why do even bother to come here? Taunt all you want.

Originally posted by syrinx high priest

Originally posted by peterpaul

Originally posted by syrinx high priest
well, there are only a handful of days until the end of 2005, and the credibility of John Titor.
Considering this should have been killed at the end of 2004, I would think any rational, logical conclusion would have to be that the lack of monthly waco type events, and the complete and total nonexistence of a civil war in america means the whole thing was a clever hoax.

Should you disagree, kindly make a case for 11 waco events that occured this year, and demonstrate organized groups engaged in combat
txs

This is for my very special "friend" sryinx high priest who is so desperatly in search of "proof" (whatever that may be....).

www.abovetopsecret.com...

One doesn't have to go that far sryinx to find all sorts of occasions where Waco typ events might be happening. Maybe you should consider doing some research and analysing for yourself and post something worthwhile to debate that just might be part of a civil war going on.

Peter Paul

PP, I thought you had just advocated a kinder, gentler debate in a prior post, why the aggression here ?

I would like to humbly submit that providing a link to a camp fema set up for katrina survivors is hardly proof of 11 waco typo events this year. And you totally ignored the little detail that no civil war is happening in america in 2005. I'm sorry if you consider a point of view that is different than your own worthless.

I think its a reasonable position to take that a waco event is a large scale confrontation between citizens and the federal gov't that ends in violence or riots or many deaths. Please show 11 examples of this. JT mentioned it did get media coverage, it shouldn't be that hard.

OK syrinx, I'll try to be as patient as possible now.
First of all I am not being aggressive. That only appears to you that way, because you keep asking the same question over and over again and don't seem to realize, that you're request for "proof" will always remain unanswered. Just try to answer the following two questions yourself:
1st. If you were an official person given orders to watch over a certain group of people because they might be considered enemies or criminals, would you be allowed to talk about it in public?
2nd If you were a member of a group, that you yourself think is within the law and not at all criminal, but for some reason is being suspected by others of being criminal, would you admit in public that you are a member?

Now figure out all the consequeces connected to both sides and try to draw a conclusion who is right and who is wrong. If you apply it to Waco and study all the information you can gather, then you might come to the conclusion many others have already made: the more you know about it the less you can understand why it escalated into what happened.
The one effect it did have on everyone afterwards was and is a feeling of mistrust and superstition. And thousands of unanswered questions beyond that. But can YOU put your finger on the one piece of PROOF, that can explain it all?

Now as an example try to consider this also: when did the major public in Germany and in the world as a whole discover the nature of the concentration camps? Before, during or after WWII? And what has been the reaction ever since?
And what do you really know about the former concentration camp I was born in and how my parents got there? Do you know how many archives I have already been to, how many people I have interviewed and questioned, how many documents and reports I have been trying to sort out over a period of more than 32 years? Do you think I have found the whole story? Do you know how many documents are missing and have been removed and destroyed?

Now back to JOHN TITOR. If you're looking for proof then first you need his birth certificate, the name of his parents and his REAL NAME. That's why I really don't understand why you keep asking for proof of Waco typ events. If authorities are preventing news of that magnitude to hit the headlines, then you will have to ask those in charge. And even so, if they are battling some kind of terrorists, maybe they just don't want it to disturb the public peace. In that case the authorities don't want things to escalate into what JT was describing: a civil war. Or are you aiming at just that?
Maybe JT mentioned the year 2005 to help prevent events like Waco by making us hold our breath and try to stay out of trouble and think things over before taking any kind of action. In a way we are all in a state of alarm and still hoping all stays calm. So why provoke everyone to stick their nose into situations, when Pentagon, NSA, FEMA, CIA, FBI and the Government themselves are on edge what might happen next?
Or do you think they don't know about JT's message? No Government in their right mind would ever overlook the possibility and effect it would or could have on the public. Even if it were a hoax, they would always consider the psychological effect it could have.
Remember the radio show "Invasion from Mars" and what happened then?
How many people believed it was real?

So if you don't mind I will kindly ask you not to request of me to try and prove or disprove the 11 Waco typ events you seem to be looking for so desperatly. I'm not here to trigger off any major dispute or give reason to set off a civil war in America. The whole JT message looks like one big booby trap to me and anyone or anything can trigger a major escalation of events now. The story has been around for 5 years already and who knows how many already take it for real and how many don't. Do you?
Maybe we should just stop poking the bear for a while and leave it to hybernate this winter.
Peter Paul

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird

Originally posted by Roth Joint
So what did John Titor mean with his "Waco-type event?" Let's hear it from Titor himself:

John Titor
"Have you see the documentary on Waco? Just for argument's sake, what do you think would happen if information were discovered that confirmed the worst accusations made against the law enforcement officers there? Would you hope nothing?

So clearly John Titor referred to the method of action used by law enforcement when he mentioned Waco and "Waco-type events."

You keep quoting that, but you're not even reading it

Titor there is asking a question, not describing anything. Don't just quote that, answer the question!
If the worst accusations were true (and the worse accusatiosn were that they started the shooting and the fires), how would you feel?

That's all Titor is asking. He in no way is describing a Waco type event, he's talking about what happened at Waco

The one who's reaching here is you. Oh man, Titor gave enough information in his rethorical question. It wasn't an open question (which ofcourse you already know - you just can't be that ignorant) and the fact that you even are denying to see that, makes it so obvious you will do everything to detract from the truth.

Ofcourse Titor was explaining here what he meant with his "Waco-type events." The worst accusations are the methods of action of law enforcement deliberately using them to immolate innocent and defenseless children with their parents. And nowadays we have similar examples of that as I have pointed out so many times in previous posts on this thread.

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird

Originally posted by Roth Joint
As already has been shown many times on this thread to you, your statement is not true. So why repeating a lie over and over ThatsJustWeird?
......
So the truth is: Words as “don’t remember a great deal” and “probably” leave us only to speculate. John Titor could not specifically tell us if these civil conflicts would be covered by the mass media.

You're really reaching now Roth.
I said when he mentioned those other events, he was talking about the media, and that's it. People keep saying that he mentioned those events in a different context.
The question was How will the media cover those events. He responded with what you quoted above.
That's it. That's the only time he mentioned those events, when he was talking about the media. That's all I'm saying.
So, how exactly am I lying?

I am happy you at least agree with me now that John Titor could not specifically tell us if these civil conflicts would be covered by the mass media or not. Thanks.

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
What happens in 2006 Titor?

From the age of 8 to 12, we lived away from the cities and spent most of our time in a farm community with other families avoiding conflict with the federal police and national guard. By that time, it was pretty clear that we were not going back to what we had and the division between the cities and the country was well defined.

So....
1. They're avoiding conflict. Which means the war, entering into it's third year, has grown to the point where it's dangerous and people are leaving the cities to avoid conflict.

2 . The division between cities and the country was well defined. Meaning, the division (division in this case meaning hatred, irreconcilable differences) between cities and the country is well defined.

Again I'll have to correct you. John Titor says: "From the age of 8 to 12..." which is from 2006 to 2010. So within these parameters the events will unfold as he mentioned them. Furthermore he never said that the events will have the characteristics as you are trying to project them, as you ofcourse always try. The division between the cities and the country was clearly initiated by the Government and NOT the US civilians.

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
"Steadily gets worse"?
Meaning the second event is worse than the first, the third is worse than the second, the fourth is worse than the third, etc. right?
So.....why hasn't that happened?

They are steadily getting worse. At least 78 defenseless people died this year as opposed to a smaller number last year. Furthermore it gets worse in the sense of law enforcement explaining away these events, not taking their responsibility and even attacking human civil rights groups. So it's definitely steadily getting worse.

[edit on 20-12-2005 by Roth Joint]

Originally posted by peterpaul
Maybe we should just stop poking the bear for a while and leave it to hybernate this winter.
Peter Paul

Yes, I think we should Peter Paul. Enough is said. As John Titor cannot be debunked, his "predictions" will become especially interesting in the years ahead of us!

JOHN TITOR
"By 2008, I would say the civil conflict is pretty much at everyone's doorstep."
"The year 2008 was a general date by which time everyone will realize the world they thought they were living in was over."
"After the war, the main problem was distribution. Can anyone tell me how many companies in the United States still manufacture bicycle tires today? Anyone who still has a bike in 2008 will find out."

[edit on 20-12-2005 by Roth Joint]

OK, so what is the concensus excuse for why there is NO

american civil war of 2005 as predicted by john Titor ?

You must also remember that these events are from the viewpoint of
John Titor. He seems to be from a militant type of family and was
very young when the Civil war has sparked. For some reason at the
beginning of 2004 his parents saw something in the news or
something drastic happened to em and they were forced to move to
the countryside...So there must be something significant about the
year 2004 which appearantly in our own timeline few are aware of.
Maybe JT and family was aware of this because of their
militant/religious(?) type of background and these qualities gave
them the edge to escape, kinda like a spiderman sense of impending
danger. Now what JT must have lived in could have been a false
reality as everything he saw and heard was from parents that shaped
his own reality.

From his internet writings we cant also dismiss the fact that JT
could also be 'coloring' some of the events to make em more
exciting than what actually happned so as to try to get a bit more
attention, nobody want's to read and especially believe in
something that's rather monotonous.
There is evidence of some sort of time travel organization as JT
had an "instructor" to show him how to work the...uh
time-travell-in-a-box gizmo.
This shows that by the time he was hired for this job he sort of
turned into a reformist-militant guy as I would imagine you would
need to be a stable inteligent person to uhm delegate the
space-time continuum...right.

Although JT makes Civil war sound drastic it wont be that drastic
(he is making it sound that way). He mentions that people are still
living happy-normal lives in cities (ok there are these searches
but there are searches all the time?)even when they are perfectly
aware of impending nuclear armageddon...This statement seems to be
rather strange as he points out that all ppl's in the city are just
too ignorant to wake up and smell the coffee. So this kinda
suggests that altough all the signs are there ppl wont catch on and
it will be the end of em. This further shows that the media will
not come out and say that "there is an "80% chance of nuclear
shower" but something like tensions with nuclear nations etc, etc,
so it wont be that obvious and have to do a bit of research into
what is happening....

JT seems to also have a lack of world news. He is oblivious about
situations in other parts of the world. He just says stuff like
"it's also bad over there" so he appears to be very self centric in
his conversation. To think world news would not catch on to this
nuclear armageddon scenerio?...and radio is non existant? He also
try to show off with new technologies such as lcd screens &
wireless internet for computers and new super cool mag-lev trains
for transport freaking un-be-leavable!!!

And than there are the dates (THANK GOD!):
If he faked this it was still pretty nice of him to make the years
close and not exagerations such as 2028-2045 etc.
He begins with Civil war escalation/full scale etc. which
supposedly takes place from 2004, so I honestly dont know what is
significant about these first years or why historians or JT would
place emphasis on these dates. In this world time line everything
seems to be going on as usuall (for better or for worse) and all of
a sudden chaos? Next is the western civilization will collapse by
2005 statement which is self explanatatory, and not just collapse
but 'totaly' collapse. If that's not enough than there is the
'OFFICIAL' 2006 Winter Olympics and if you want to stick around for
the 'OFFICIAL' Summer Oplympics of 2008 to see what happens be my
guest.

It is also evident that he is taking a conservative approach to his
explanation, dont want to give too much away about technologies and
events but yet again here he contradicts himself. If he does not
want to give away for example important events than why is he
mentioning exact dates such as 2004-2005? Maybe he is giving out
those dates because he knows it's safe? Or why does he give out the
exact date for the nuclear strikes and the name of the nation that
will make nuke attacks first? Is he breaking some kind of rule by
communicating with us through the internet?

If this is about the time-divergency factor clause of 2-3% than
just leave me out of it cause that can happen anytime anyday.
It is an interesting story but it takes a lot to believe in what
some guy said on the internet.

p.s. Nuclear war sucks so no I dont like nuclear war.

well its very believable that people would stay in the cities. the government would tell them its safe...and the city people would believe it. they are ignorant and love the city, they wont leave (most of them at least). this is one of the statements i highly believe.

maybe the things he list about the 04 and 05 years was what personally was important to him. maybe he could have been a lower class citizen (poor city type). he experienced it before others did. i mean he lives in jacksonville, florida. i looked it up a couple months ago i think and jacksonville is now the largest city population wise (i think), philidelphia following it in second. (not sure so look it up because im pretty sure that was it) hes still in the city right now i think, or moves out soon according to his story(he moves to country type area in florida and then later joins a shotgun squad or whatever)

anyway i think we should just sit and wait to see what happens. such as the olympics situation and stuff.

o and priest if your not going to contribute to the thread stop posting till you can find something worth reading to post about, instead of one to two line questions which you post 10 times reworded differently.

Was titor real? I think its moot at this point. His claims may have been based on a hoax, but the reality seems to fixing itself to his claims. Maybe not to the extreme of a full scale civil war, but there is a shift in the air. I can smell it.

Today I was reading over a few other forums, completely unrelated to anything posted here, and I saw quite a few "Line in the sand" posts up today. People are angry and scared, for many different reasons, and this seems to be just a begining if things continue this way. I do fear for the state of our nation and it was very tempting to point those folks this way. But that would just feed the meme and I don't really want to do that.

Not sure what point I was trying to make with this post. Take it as you will.

Originally posted by syrinx high priest
OK, so what is the concensus excuse for why there is NO american civil war of 2005 as predicted by john Titor ?

I wonder why you name yourself "High Priest" Shouldn't you be the one who has all the abilities to help reach a consensus where others go fail?
And where is the logic in your subtitels? Isn't being a "debunker of nonsense" nonsense in itself? Nonsense is nonsense and debunks itself by just being that: non-sense. So why try to debunk it? Prove it.
And calling yourself "Warrior" sounds as if you are already at war. Is that why you want to know where and when the civil war is going to happen? What about "the shire" and where is that suppossed to be? Do you want to battle it or protect it? And whose side are you going to be on?

You used to be Dr. Brown and now you mention that you're a head case. Are you getting worried that someone is going to nuke the Duke university?

You know I don't even know if YOU ARE REAL. The way computers work today I could very well just be chatting with a CRAY II++ and not even realize it. Maybe you're just some sophisticated software programmed to keep us busy day and night trying to figure out a story invented and named JOHN TITOR for the sole purpose to test the way people react to it.
Is that maybe the consensus you are looking for? JOHN TITOR's story is carefully designed to prevent that from ever happening sryinx. It's too perfect. It's too real. It's pure metaphysics. But WHO designed it? And WHAT FOR? Maybe Alfred Hitchcock, Edgar Allen Poe, Umberto Eco and Stephan Spielberg and several others all chipped in on this one....! Maybe it's just one gigantic PR gag and Walt Disney Productions are going to announce the biggest film next year, bigger than The Ten Commandments, Independence Day and the Titanic together: "The civil war that never really happened". Do you think anyone would ever want to see that in a movie?
Where do we need consensus when only time will tell? Maybe another time traveller was here and disrupted the timeline of John Titor's story and took off without leaving us a note. Remember? He mentioned 7 other time travellers. Maybe one of them tripped over JT's time line story on his way back and it broke and we're all off into a completely different future. Maybe we're already heading straight into a big black hole just 2 or 3% off course to disapear forever because it's already 2012 and NASA doesn't dare tell us that all computers have the wrong time/date stamp. Maybe our planet skipped 7 years and that's why we "missed" the civil war everybody has been waiting for. And that can't be changed because JT already took the last working IBM 5110 with him that might have fixed the problem.
Now where is the crew that's responsable for repairing that one?
(to be continued, but only if the black hole doesn't come around tonight and bring some kind of consensus into my story. But just in case it's one of those tiny ones and gets me first on this side of the planet, I do wish you all a Happy New Year - in case it comes around)

Peter Paul, still living in enemy country and masterminding his own business

America has never been united. We have always been in a state of unrest. If someone named Pat claimed to be an alien with the same claims 5 years ago, I think we would be argueing about Pat.

How many threads have existed about a civil war with different people claiming the foresight? Someone will always see unrest as the masses being on the verge, I exept that. Thats why I keep coming back

Do I think this whole thing was a Hoax? probably. Was it timely? Yes.

Not because things are about to change alot, but because they seem to be. Just think back to what concerned you 5 years ago.

Originally posted by grimreaper797
i mean he lives in jacksonville, florida. i looked it up a couple months ago i think and jacksonville is now the largest city population wise (i think), philidelphia following it in second. (not sure so look it up because im pretty sure that was it) hes still in the city right now i think, or moves out soon according to his story(he moves to country type area in florida and then later joins a shotgun squad or whatever)

Just to clearify...
Jacksonville isn't even in the top 10 population wise, nor has it ever been. New York is firmly entrenched in the #1 spot and will not be overtaken anytime soon. LA is firmly in the #2 spot.

anyway i think we should just sit and wait to see what happens. such as the olympics situation and stuff.

How long will we have to sit and wait? We've been sitting and waiting for two years now.


Fernando:

America has never been united. We have always been in a state of unrest. If someone named Pat claimed to be an alien with the same claims 5 years ago, I think we would be argueing about Pat.

How many threads have existed about a civil war with different people claiming the foresight? Someone will always see unrest as the masses being on the verge, I exept that. Thats why I keep coming back

Exactly. Some people on this thread don't want to hear that though. They believe this stuff is new and has only been talked about recently
I guess we have the explosion in internet access to thank for that

TJW you were right, i guessed population but it was size in land wise. im sorry i was trying to do it on memory a couple months later. i was pretty close, just wasnt population wise, it was area wise.

Please don't twist my words. I agree this is an old topic, even older then Titor. I just think that, this time, it should not be dismissed. Thats all.

Hey PP

As I've posted before, my user ID is a reference to the band rush. my sig is just a funny lyric from a who song. What my profile can tell you is I like rush and the who, and I am skeptical. nothing more.

I don't think its unreasonable to claim a story about someone who claims he can time travel backwards and forwards in time in a corvette with 2 mini black holes with technology developed in only 30 years in our future AFTER a nuclear war and the reason for the trip was only to come back in time for an IBM PC as nonsense.

and by the way, its 12/21, and signs of the american civil war in 2005 as predicted by John Titor ?

[edit on 21-12-2005 by syrinx high priest]

Originally posted by FernandoPoo
Please don't twist my words. I agree this is an old topic, even older then Titor. I just think that, this time, it should not be dismissed. Thats all.

I'm assuming you're talking to me, no?


If so...what are you talking about?
I just said that this has been talked about even before Titor, which is exactly what you just said.

in the holiday spirit of giving, I would like to give the community an interesting point of view on JT,which discusses things we have missed, like economics

cheers !

www.livejournal.com...

Originally posted by syrinx high priest
I don't think its unreasonable to claim a story about someone who claims he can time travel backwards and forwards in time in a corvette with 2 mini black holes with technology developed in only 30 years in our future AFTER a nuclear war and the reason for the trip was only to come back in time for an IBM PC as nonsense.

Hmmm.... lets count... how many discoveries and inventions we are "enjoying" nowadays were categorized "impossible" around a century ago?.... ...I give up... I lost count...