The American Civil War of 2005 as predicted by John Titor

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird

You don't know very well the history of this country do you? When has this not been the case?

Can you give me another time, besides the last civil war ... where there was this much tention, and this much of a divide over such a large array of issues?

Originally posted by Where2Hide2006
Can you give me another time, besides the last civil war ... where there was this much tention, and this much of a divide over such a large array of issues?

Where do you want to start?
We could start during the revolutionary war....
If you're talking more recent, we can start during the civil rights era or the Vietnam era...it's up to you.


What tension btw? You think debates on cable news channels are tension?

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird

Where do you want to start?
We could start during the revolutionary war....
If you're talking more recent, we can start during the civil rights era or the Vietnam era...it's up to you.

Well, during the revolutionary war ... was DURING a war, so don't include that one. And don't include right before or during the civil war either.

During the Civil Rights era... thats a good one! the nation wasn't really too divided though. The blacks were causing civil unrest because they wanted the rights that everyone else had in the constitution...the whites were also the cause too, mostly racism...but that wasn't about to lead to civil war because the blacks were the minority. Whats going to happen when the majority has their civil rights taken away?

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird

What tension btw? You think debates on cable news channels are tension?

You don't see it? When was the last time that you read THE BILL OF RIGHTS? The government is going to far to take away our civil rights. This recent Govt. Land Seizure thing. What do you think will happen when the government comes to take the land? Would you give up your land? What happens if ... the person protecting his land gets tasered for resisting ... and eventually dies as a result of the tasering. Will you say that he/they Deserved it because they didn't have any right to that land.

What about the minutemen... With All of those gun toten beer drinking nascar fans. Thats an accident looking for a place to happen.

This is just the beggining. You will be able to see it all unfold.


______________________________________________
watch out. $H!% Splatters when it hits the fan.

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird

Originally posted by Roth Joint
Would those people have died on the scene if they weren't been tasered? Ofcourse not.

Would they have died if they obeyed the officers? ....that's what I asked.

They did not even get a chance! You still don't get it do you?


"He was pleading for his life," Johnson said. "They claim they were trying to immobilize him but he was already in handcuffs. They were clearly trying to inflict pain on a person.

His last words were: "Don't kill me, man. Don't kill me."

"Do you want another one?" Mustachio said, referring to the stun gun.

Within one minute, Williams was shocked a total of five times.

His handcuffs were not removed until after he lost consciousness.

"They killed my son in cold blood," mother Claudia Woolfolk said.

62-year-old Waco man has died after police officers fired a Taser gun at him four times, then forcibly subdued him with handcuffs.

They fired Taser darts at him four times without effect, so five officers forcibly subdued and handcuffed the man.

Police say Williams was sitting on the ground when he complained of difficulty breathing. They say he stopped breathing before an ambulance arrived, and efforts to revive him failed.

Surrey RCMP would not confirm how many times the victim, Gurmeet Sandhu, 41, was hit with a Taser, but the victim's wife, Harjinder Sandhu, who was home at the time, alleges her husband was shocked multiple times.

"At least four or five times," Sandhu said.

"There were two Tasers involved."

Sandhu also said her husband did not assault her, or any other female, as reported by RCMP.

"He was paranoid and he was scared -- he was trying to hold onto me because he was so scared," she said.

She also alleges her husband was kicked in the chest by an officer.

According to Sandhu, her husband awoke in a violent and delirious state that culminated in him throwing a glass through the front window. She said she told her downstairs neighbour to called 911.

"I wanted an ambulance -- that's what I wanted," she said.

"It's sad -- you phone these people for protection and they cause a death," she said.

So if I understand it correctly, in the eyes of ThatsJustWeird the cases presented below are perfect examples of justified mobile electric chair taser use by our own officers of the law with the chance of killing someone:

www.cleveland.com.../base/lorain/111848257318490.xml&coll=2

Police use stun gun on 12-year-old
Lorain officer called to calm melee on school bus

Saturday, June 11, 2005

An empty CD case - that was all it took to spark a school bus fight Thursday that ended when police used a stun gun on a 12-year-old boy, police said.

The Masson Elementary School student had tried to take the case from another student and became enraged when the other boy refused, according to a report.

A police officer had to board the bus and used a Taser on the boy after the boy head-butted her when she tried to restrain him, police said. A crowd of 20 or 30 people surrounded the bus, pounding on windows and demanding that police leave the boy alone, the report said.


www.wthr.com...

Woman claims excessive force in Taser use

Hamilton County, May 31 - Police car video of a traffic stop late one night in November of 2003 shows two officers questioning a suspected drunk driver at a gas station at 116th Street and Brooks School Road.

Minutes later, Hamilton County Sheriff Deputy Greg Lockhart made a declaration as the woman reached into her car for her cell phone.

"It's Taser time."

"It felt like he was trying to pull my arm out of the socket. It was an incredible pain, an incredible pain."

Jennifer Marshall, five-foot five and 105 pounds, says she couldn't believe an officer who outweighs her by nearly three times, along with a second deputy, used a Taser.

"It was almost like it was a malicious, vindictive movement like, drop to the ground but I am just going to keep pushing this button and I know you can't fall. It was just very horrible."

Originally posted by Where2Hide2006
Well, during the revolutionary war ... was DURING a war, so don't include that one. And don't include right before or during the civil war either.

Why not?
There was a division worse than there is today. Why not include it? Because it would go against what YOU believe?

During the Civil Rights era... thats a good one! the nation wasn't really too divided though.

You have GOT to be JOKING!
omg man, read a book. You'll learn alot of this stuff when you get to high school, but it's never too early to start learning.
You statement is so wrong, it's sad. Wow.


Why did you skip over the Vietnam era? I could name more times if you want me too.

You don't see it? When was the last time that you read THE BILL OF RIGHTS?

I see what you're talking about, but I also know history. This is nothing.
When was the last time YOU read the bill or rights?

The government is going to far to take away our civil rights. This recent Govt. Land Seizure thing. What do you think will happen when the government comes to take the land? Would you give up your land?

You don't even know what that ruling was about do you?
The link to the actual ruling has been posted in one of the threads about it. I suggest you read it because it's obviously you have no idea what you're talking about.

What about the minutemen... With All of those gun toten beer drinking nascar fans. Thats an accident looking for a place to happen.

wtf are you talking about? The minutemen aren't allowed to carry guns.



Roth:

They did not even get a chance! You still don't get it do you?

Have you even read the cases which you posted? The officers didn't just go up and start tasering! Read. That one "example" isn't even a good one. And if it was, that's like saying because Death Valley is 135 degrees, the US is a hot place year round but Death Valley isn't a good representation of the US.
Answer, would they have been tasered if they had just obeyed the law?

So if I understand it correctly, in the eyes of ThatsJustWeird the cases presented below are perfect examples of justified mobile electric chair taser use by our own officers of the law with the chance of killing someone:

Dude. You keep saying all these people are dying, but you're not providing examples of that. Deaths only account for what? Less then 1% of all taser incidents? And in those deaths the person was either high on drugs, or had a heart condition.
And what do you say of officers who shot the suspects to death?

You still haven't said how you think these people should be restrained.

You also still haven't answered my questions?
Why is that? You can't.
So you must turn this thread about Titor's civil war into a taser thread. Can you stop talking about tasers for one day and discuss Titor? Is that possible for you?

[edit on 10-7-2005 by ThatsJustWeird]

Why can't or don't you 2 stop?

Thatsjustwierd VS. RothJoint

I totally agree with what RothJoint says on almost all counts. Bad things are and have been happening around the USA. On one hand, Two many people with self righteous possibly christains additudes who think that cops should be able to tazer someone at will/ to death and think that thats ok. On The other hand, I don't think and um about half of the USA
doesn't think its ok. What was the Presidental election totals 58 million to 55 or 56 million..

Thatsjustwierd if I had to guess I would say you are a member of law enforcement or the military


But if you two here can't find middle ground here....its just one instance of just how divided the USA is. We are a economic colapse away from all hell braken loose, throw in climate change, the sun freakin out, bird flu...lets just say if civil war happened in the USA it wouldn't surprise me. the next few years should be interesting.

Originally posted by LDragonFire
Why can't or don't you 2 stop?

Thatsjustwierd VS. RothJoint

I totally agree with what RothJoint says on almost all counts. Bad things are and have been happening around the USA. On one hand, Two many people with self righteous possibly christains additudes who think that cops should be able to tazer someone at will/ to death and think that thats ok. On The other hand, I don't think and um about half of the USA
doesn't think its ok. What was the Presidental election totals 58 million to 55 or 56 million..

Thatsjustwierd if I had to guess I would say you are a member of law enforcement or the military

But if you two here can't find middle ground here....its just one instance of just how divided the USA is. We are a economic colapse away from all hell braken loose, throw in climate change, the sun freakin out, bird flu...lets just say if civil war happened in the USA it wouldn't surprise me. the next few years should be interesting.

Thats exactly what i am saying! Great Post!


ALERT!! ALERT!!
EVERYONE READ: Please for the sake of God, stop eating and using BEEF products. It will save your Life ! I repeat STOP eating and using all Beef products. This has been a public service announcement.

I also think that Thatsjustwierd has to be a agent for the military or government.

1 more thing.

Why does the American Civil War have to fought in America. Wouldn't you say America caused the Civil War in Iraq?

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
And what do you say of officers who shot the suspects to death?

What about them? Were their subjects unarmed and defenseless as with all those executed by taser?

So shooting unarmed amd defenseless people to death is not oke, but tasering them to death is oke?

Would you rather be hit by a bullet in the leg or do you take your chances with the taser?

Be extra careful in case you might have a pre existing condition you might not be aware of yet.

Originally posted by Where2Hide2006
1 more thing.

Why does the American Civil War have to fought in America. Wouldn't you say America caused the Civil War in Iraq?

How the hell is there an American Civil war happening in Iraq? A civil war is when the citizens of one nation are at war with each other.

-Chris

Originally posted by LDragonFire
Why can't or don't you 2 stop?

Thatsjustwierd VS. RothJoint

I'm trying to get Roth to talk about something else Titor related, but he can't come up with anything. So he sticks to what he thinks Titor was correct on.

Bad things are and have been happening around the USA. On one hand, Two many people with self righteous possibly christains additudes who think that cops should be able to tazer someone at will/ to death and think that thats ok.

Wow, lol.
I guess it was just a matter of time before an anti Christian post popped up in this thread even though religion has been mentions 0 times so far and what we've been talking about has absolutely nothing to do with religion.
Please show us the posts where someone said tasering people to death is ok. I want to see those posts.

On The other hand, I don't think and um about half of the USA
doesn't think its ok. What was the Presidental election totals 58 million to 55 or 56 million..

So....58 million Republicans don't think tasering is ok, while 55 million democrats do think it's ok. Where did you come up with that?

Thatsjustwierd if I had to guess I would say you are a member of law enforcement or the military

Nope, but unlike Roth here, I have friends who are in both. So I'm not so closeminded and ignorant of things going on.

W2H:

I also think that Thatsjustwierd has to be a agent for the military or government.

Why? Because I disagree with you?
How can you possibly come to that conclusion from my posts?
The theme of this site is to DENY ignorance not embrace it.

Roth:
You're confusing yourself again. Please go over my post again.
Also answer the questions if you can. If you can't...well, I understand.

Originally posted by Legend

Originally posted by Where2Hide2006
1 more thing.

Why does the American Civil War have to fought in America. Wouldn't you say America caused the Civil War in Iraq?

How the hell is there an American Civil war happening in Iraq? A civil war is when the citizens of one nation are at war with each other.

-Chris

I know, this one is a little tuff to follow. but, basically you have to look at the present time through the eyes of historians in the year 2036. So what is goin on right now in Iraq? Civil War. Who caused the civil war in Iraq? America. Therefor... this is America's Civil War.

I know this probably isn't what Titor was talking about... but you do need to think outside your little box, because Titor wasn't too specific.

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
You also still haven't answered my questions?

I have. Why don't you answer my question:

Do you agree upon children age 6-18 being tasered -either resisting the officers of the law or not- with the chance of losing their lives as a result of direct contact with the taser?

Originally posted by Where2Hide2006

I know this probably isn't what Titor was talking about... but you do need to think outside your little box, because Titor wasn't too specific.

You might be right, but I seriously doubt that John Titor was talking about an American Civil War in Iraq.

-Chris

Originally posted by Roth Joint
I have.

No you haven't. You skirted issues instead of giving me straight answers. My questions were not difficult and were very straightfoward. No need to ponder on them, just answer.

Why don't you answer my question:

Do you agree upon children age 6-18 being tasered -either resisting the officers of the law or not- with the chance of losing their lives as a result of direct contact with the taser?

That was not a question, you wrongfully accused me of agreeing to such a thing. It's not a very good question either. If you're 13-18 you know what's going on. Even younger than that, but let's just say that for now. If you're resisting the officers and assulting them, you should know there's going to be consequences for your actions. I think you're underestimating kid's intelligence. Should the officer's taser? Beat them with a night stick? Shoot them? Physically restrain them? Mace them? I don't know. I'm not a police officer so I don't know how different situations are handled. Should the police officer continue to allow the suspect to resist and/or assault? No.
For kid's younger than that. I'm positive the police have a set of rules they follow. Do I agree with tasering kids that young? No. Not unless it's the very last resort and there are no other options.
Let me ask you. Can you, since tasers have been invented, name more than 5 cases where children that young have been tasered by police?

Anyway, can we please get off of tasers now?

Since you're too lazy to do your own research and have this one track mind of tasers tasers tasers....
You're completely missing things that are much more accurate to Titor's account of New weapon systems that are supposed to be non lethal but could be lethal.

Directed energy weapons

Military's Energy-Beam Weapons Delayed By BRIAN BERGSTEIN, AP Technology Writer
Sun Jul 10,11:22 AM ET

ARLINGTON, Va. - For years, the U.S. military has explored a new kind of firepower that is instantaneous, precise and virtually inexhaustible: beams of electromagnetic energy. "Directed-energy" pulses can be throttled up or down depending on the situation, much like the phasers on "Star Trek" could be set to kill or merely stun.

Such weapons are now nearing fruition. But logistical issues have delayed their battlefield debut — even as soldiers in Iraq encounter tense urban situations in which the nonlethal capabilities of directed energy could be put to the test.

I shouldn't be perpetuating the Titor myth like this (though I'm not really. I knew about such weapons for quite some time as I'm sure the author of the Titor story did) but I'm getting so sick of Roth talking about tasers. Do you really think tasers would be used in a war? Get real man.


More...

US Officers of the Law tasering Kids and Teens: it's worse then you think

www.atla.org...
People shocked with Tasers were unarmed in 80% of cases. And according to statistics provided by the company Taser International, 7.4% of all Taser applications were against children aged 10 to 18. For instance:

A 6-year-old boy was tasered by two police officers in his elementary school principal's office after he cut himself with a broken piece of glass, in order to stop him from doing it again.

A15-year-old girl was tasered after arguing with officers after she and other children were removed from a bus for causing a disturbance.

A 14-year-old boy was tasered after he allegedly broke a window and tried to run away.

A 13-year-old girl was tasered in a public library after she threw a book at someone and yelled obscenities.

A 16-year-old boy who was riding in a car stopped for a broken headlight was tasered after he appeared to make a furtive movement in the backseat.

A 9-year-old girl who was a runaway from a residential home for severely emotionally disturbed children was tasered after she was already handcuffed with her hands behind her back, but was kicking and screaming, according to reports.

A 14-year-old Chicago boy went unconscious for two days after being shot with a Taser and then going into cardiac arrest.

If Tasers can kill, and there's every indication that they can, is it appropriate to use them on children who are being disruptive?


www.prisonplanet.com...
PALATKA -- The first shock from the officer's Taser knocked Shakell Cox to the pavement at Jenkins Middle School. A busload of students watched as a second and then a third jolt hit the 12-year-old and she was handcuffed.

Putnam County authorities said Shakell, who is 5-foot-10 and 180 pounds, ignored an officer's orders and re-entered school grounds. She resisted arrest, authorities said, hitting school resource officer Scott Stoudt on the shoulder and arm.

The officer zapped her with an M26 Taser -- a weapon growing popular with law enforcement on the streets and, more recently, in schools nationwide.

"If I did my child like that, the police would lock me up," she said, pointing to scabs the size of nickels on her daughter's back. Her son also was Tasered in a separate incident.


www.underthesamesun.org...
A handcuffed 9-year-old girl subdued with a Taser by South Tucson police is among a growing group of toddlers and youngsters the device has been used on nationally.

Records kept by Taser International of Scottsdale show that as of six months ago, two 1-year-olds, one 2-year-old, two 3-year-olds, two 4-year-olds, one 5-year-old, one 6-year-old and one 7-year-old had been hit with Tasers, though most of the toddlers were hit inadvertently. Slightly older children also have been hit, including a 13-year-old Wisconsin girl wielding a samurai sword, another 13-year-old girl in Washington who fought with officers, and another 13-year-old girl in Chandler who also fought.

Zapping a 6-year-old with 50,000 volts of electricity could cause permanent damage to the heart depending on the size of the child and other genetic factors, an expert in pediatric cardiology said.

''It is clear that certain electrical shocks in a susceptible child at the right dose can certainly cause the death and damage of heart muscle cells,'' said Dr. Steven Lipshultz, chairman of pediatrics at the University of Miami School of Medicine.

www.officer.com...
Several Florida police departments and sheriff's offices have been criticized for their use of the stun guns. The Miami-Dade Police Department announced a revision in its stun gun policy earlier this year after its officers used them on a 6-year-old boy in a school office and on a 12-year-old female truant.


effectmeasure.blogspot.com...
Cardiac arrest in a 14 year old after being Taser-ed

Thursday, February 10, 2005

In Chicago a 14 year old got the 50,000 volt taser treatment and promptly went into cardiac arrest (AP via USA Today). The boy was reported regaining consciousness but not yet able to talk. Admittedly this was not a pint-sized 14 year old. He was reported to be 6' 2" and over 200 pounds. The taser was used when he allegedly attacked three employees of his group home. When he lunged at an officer, the device, which shoots a dart connected to a wire, discharged 50,000 volts into his body to disable him.

Given the circumstances, the use of the taser was probably predictable. But the serious consequences, which Taser International steadfastly denies is related to their device, are now being reported with sufficient frequency that the status of tasers as an acceptable way to subdue subjects must now be questioned.

Amnesty International, among others, is doing just that:

(Washington, DC)—Amnesty International USA (AIUSA) is calling for US law enforcement to stop using TASERs on children, the elderly, and persons with disabilities unless those individuals pose an immediate threat to themselves, the life of an officer or a member of the public. AIUSA renews its call following the shooting on Monday of a 14-year-old Chicago boy, who was unconscious for two days after being shot with a TASER and then going into cardiac arrest. There have been other recent new reports regarding children, seniors, and person with disabilities being shot with TASER guns.

"The gun's manufacturer tested TASERs on a few dogs and pigs and has extrapolated from that limited research that the product is safe to use on children, seniors, and people with disabilities," said Dr. William F. Schulz, Executive Director, AIUSA. "Before those claims can be taken seriously, parents should know the potential effects of being shot with a TASER – that it might affect their child's development. The families of people dealing with mental illness or neurological disorders have a right to know how a 50,000 volt shock will affect a loved one with Alzheimer's or Multiple Sclerosis."

Dr. Schulz went on to say, "TASER abuse in the US has risen to a level that now demands the immediate attention of lawmakers. Instead of being an alternative to lethal force, police departments are clearly using TASERs in situations where they would have never used guns, batons, pepper spray, or any other type of force. These guns were not designed to be used cavalierly on nonviolent, vulnerable populations."


lonestartimes.com...
Florida police officers Taser handcuffed 13-year-old girl

by Jeremy Weidenhof | 05/17/2005 4:11 pm

A 13 year old Jacksonville, Florida girl, handcuffed and in the back of a police patrol car, was Tasered at least twice by a police officer in February. A recently completed review of the incident has resulted in the officer’s suspension.

After responding to a disturbance call at the girl’s home where she was arguing with her mother, officers handcuffed the child and placed her in the back of the patrol car. The girl managed to get her cuffed hands in front of her and became unruly, and the officer used his Taser to subdue her.

At this point a supervisor was called in:

Sgt. D.E. Smith, who was called to the scene, said, "Please don’t tell me this is the person you Tased."

An investigation was launched, and resulted in a three day suspension for the officer. The report concluded that the officer violated no written guidelines, and noted that he had recently completed Taser training as an instructor at the time of the incident. His judgement in using the stun gun on the child was found lacking, however, thus resulting in his punishment.

www.shortnews.com...
The girl managed to slide her hands to the front and would not return them to behind her back. Police say they zapped the girl twice, but the girl says she was zapped five times and showed five marks on her body to the reporter of the story.

The girl's mother, Rose Vaughn, said: "I saw her jump from one side of the police car to the other.." from the force of the shock. Police say the gun was only a localized application which does not seize up the body.


www.freep.com...
Police in Lincoln Park had to use a Taser gun -- twice -- to subdue a kicking and screaming 14-year-old boy who wouldn't stop playing his Nintendo Game Boy during class.


www.cbsnews.com...
(CBS) The question is being debated in dozens of communities: How did the Taser, an electric shock weapon designed to incapacitate dangerous suspects, find it's way into schools?

As CBS News Correspondent Wyatt Andrews reports on The Early Show, a 6-year-old boy who was cutting himself with glass was tasered in Miami. Officers said they did it to get him into custody.

Also in Miami, a 12-year-old girl was tasered while running away from police. She says, "They did mess up."

In Chicago, an unruly, 200-hundred pound, 14-year-old boy was tasered by police, trying to calm him down. The boy went into cardiac arrest.

A Taser was used at Lakeland High School in Florida last January. There was a fistfight, Andrews says. A big crowd gathered, and Police Officer Michael Branch, worried for a teacher who had fallen, pulled out his Taser stun gun.

"I'm like, 'What just happened? Did I just get tased?' " says the student, Sola Oyelowo.

He and one other student got tasered, but not for fighting. According to witness accounts, he was "in the way" of the officer.

Oyelowo told Andrews he wasn't in the fight, only watching it, along with 150 other kids.

Oyelowo's mother, Theodora Oyelowo, says her son was hurt, and the incident shows why Tasers don't belong in schools: "That was an electrical shock onto his body that never should have happened."

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
Do you really think they'd be tasered if they just obeyed the officers?

Its getting worse:

www.morningjournal.com...

LORAIN -- A 16-year-old boy was Tasered Sunday night while trying to hide from a police officer under a house's porch, according to a police report, the second instance in less than a week of a Taser used on a juvenile in Lorain.

In the report, the officer, Patrolman Joe Novosielski, said he chased the juvenile after seeing him yelling at another man at the scene of a reported fight involving possible firearms.

''Fearing that (the juvenile) may be armed with a weapon and his refusal to comply with me, I deployed my departmental issued Taser,'' Novosielski wrote in his report.

''I was scared,'' the youth said yesterday. ''He was still shocking me while he was putting on the cuffs.''

Neither Police Chief Cel Rivera or department members returned calls for comment yesterday.

In the report, Novosielski said that he was forced to shock the teenager again, when the juvenile refused to surrender his arms from under his body.

The youth said he wanted to comply with the officer's commands but that he wasn't able to get out from under the porch.

See what I mean.
You completely ignore my last post just to push YOUR agenda. This thread is about Titor, not you. Spamming this thread with pointless taser posts isn't doing you any good. There are other threads where this info would be useful, not here. But go ahead. I'll just wait until you're done so the Titor discusssion can continue.
Please inform everyone when you're done. We'll wait.