The American Civil War of 2005 as predicted by John Titor

Originally posted by Legend
Are you physically capable of reading? I don't know how many times I have to say that I agree with you. The war "started" last year. We don't REALIZE it until 2008. That's the date we're waiting for.

That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying if a Civil War broke out last year. We would know it....last year!
You underestimate human intelligence.
People tend to notice things such as Civil Wars. If a Civil War (which Titor defined as a real war) occurs in the most powerful nation on earth, people will know.

It also looks like there is a disagreement between Roth and TJW about what a Waco-type event could be. I personally agree with Roth on that one.

-People being murdered while pleading for their lives by our own officers of the law.

1. Waco was nothing about people being murdered while pleading for their lives.
2. I'm also still waiting for you all to show me all these taser deaths where the suspect wasn't high on drugs or had a pre exsisting condition. I asked for that a long time ago.
I would also like to see any tasering incidents where the suspect was innocent.

It's pretty simply what a Waco type event is. It's an event like that of Waco. Ruby Ridge would be considered a Waco type event.

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
I'm also still waiting for you all to show me all these taser deaths where the suspect wasn't high on drugs or had a pre exsisting condition. I asked for that a long time ago.
I would also like to see any tasering incidents where the suspect was innocent.

Many cases regarding Taser execution upon defenseless people have been presented to you. They were also innocent: they didn't deserve to go to the other side like that. If you think they did that will be so barbaric. Just go back on this thread and read these cases again.

Furthermore it is a disgrace you have the nerve to agree on people being killed by law enforcement officers solely because they have a pre existing condition. Shame on you!

Bottomline: John Titor "predicted" these "non-lethal" weapons becoming lethal. Pre existing condition or not.

"...First tell me if you have a pre existing condition otherwise my "non-lethal" weapon will be very lethal..."

"...I am sorry he's dead, but it's his own fault. He shouldn't have a pre existing condition. Too bad for him..."

corpwatch.live.radicaldesigns.org...
-- Eight months before that, Troy Dale Nowell, 51, died after being shocked several times while being subdued by Amarillo police after assaulting three people. The autopsy gave the cause of death as a cardiopulmonary arrest during a violent physical struggle. Nowell had a history of heart disease that was listed as a contributing factor. No drugs were found in his blood. Following the death, the Amarillo Police Department immediately announced their intention to quadruple the number of Tasers the department employs.


Other ridiculous Taser attacks by our own law enforcement officers:

-- In Baytown, Texas, “a man who had reportedly suffered two epileptic seizures was touch-stunned in an ambulance when, confused and disoriented, he resisted while being strapped onto a stretcher.” The same police department blasted Naomi Autin — 59 years old and disabled — three times with a Taser for banging on her brother’s door with a brick. Autin was collecting mail for her brother while he was away and became worried after she couldn’t reach his house-sitter. She was the one who had called the police for help. In both cases, the officers were cleared of any wrongdoing, and no disciplinary action was taken against them.

-- In Oregon, police used a Taser on people “after stopping them for nonviolent offenses, such as littering and jaywalking, selling plastic flowers without a license, and failing to go away when told to.” Amnesty also reported that Oregon police jolted an elderly man after he dropped “onto his hands and knees instead of lying flat on the floor, as ordered by police.” And 71-year-old Eunice Crowder was hit with a Taser jolt after ignoring police orders not to enter a trailer where Portland city employees had placed rubbish they had legally removed from her yard. Crowder won a $145,000 settlement from the city after it was learned that two officers “struck Ms. Crowder (who was blind in one eye) in the head with a Taser, dislodging her prosthetic right eye from its socket. She was also tasered in the back and on the breast as she lay on the ground.”

-- In Mesa, Ariz., police shocked an unarmed suspect in a house burglary who had climbed into a tree to escape from four guard dogs. The man fell, landing on his head and leaving him partially paralyzed. In Chandler, Ariz., police told a man who was “standing on the sidewalk yelling and screaming at the sky” to be quiet. He continued screaming and was Tasered. He fell to the ground but “as the subject began to get up, the Taser was cycled a second time.”

—In Seattle, police shot a 16-year-old four times with a Taser on the back of the neck when the car in which he was a passenger was stopped for a faulty headlight. Police decided to frisk the youngster outside the car because they claimed he “made furtive movements in the back seat” and used the Taser on him repeatedly when he resisted.

— In Kansas City, Mo., a 66-year-old African-American woman was tasered twice in her home after she resisted being handed a ticket for honking her car horn at a police car.

— In Colorado, “a man was shocked in the genitals for continuing to resist” — while he was already handcuffed and sitting in the back of a police car. In another case in that state, police took an apparently intoxicated and possibly suicidal man to a hospital where he was put into restraints on a bed. The man, who was screaming for his wife, was “told to be quiet, and when he did not comply [the officer] placed the Taser against his chest and tasered him.”

[edit on 7-7-2005 by Roth Joint]

How can tasers be a Waco type event? That is just ridiculous. Tasers are meant to distract a person from resisting with law enforcement, I know this first hand, too. Cars aren't lethal weapons but they can be lethal as well as sugar, spice, and everything nice.

Why thank you for proving my point Roth. No suspect you listed was innocent. All were resisting arrest. Do you really think they'd be tasered if they just obeyed the officers?
None of them died from the tasering alone. In fact the first one you mentioned was the only one who died and he had a pre exsisting condition. Heart disease which led to his death.
I thought it was so lethal?

Furthermore it is a disgrace you have the nerve to agree on people being killed by law enforcement officers solely because they have a pre existing condition. Shame on you!

I've asked you before if you have a reading comprehension problem. It's becoming more and more evident that you do.
I said show me where any taser victim has died without a pre exsisting condition. I didn't agree on anything. I said show me. You have failed to do that.

Bottomline: John Titor "predicted" these "non-lethal" weapons becoming lethal. Pre existing condition or not.

Yes and you have failed to show this.


Anyway, you seem to be on a one track mind Roth. Besides tasering is there any other things that you consider Waco type events Roth?
I can tell you now with 100% certainty that tasering will NOT cause a Civil War. There has to be something more. So what is it? Or is tasering your only claim to Titor being "right"?

Originally posted by Frosty
How can tasers be a Waco type event? That is just ridiculous. Tasers are meant to distract a person from resisting with law enforcement, I know this first hand, too. Cars aren't lethal weapons but they can be lethal as well as sugar, spice, and everything nice.

If you had read this thread you would have known it's about the deadly effect of the so called "non-lethal" tasers as "predicted" by John Titor. As discussed before on this thread John Titor mentioned WACO because of the methods used upon defenseless and innocent people. You cannot blame those children and their parents who died do you?

WACO=
- Innocent people being killed
- under false pretences
- by their own authorities
- while pleading for help, mercy or their lives
- while the law enforcement officers responsible for their death are cleared without any prosecution for "wrongful death."
=Tasering innocent and defenseless people to death and happening at this very moment

He simply doesn't know what he's talking about Frosty. For example his favorite quote as of late...

Originally posted by Roth Joint
WACO=
- Innocent people being killed

Since when does having shootouts with FBI and ATF agents (even killing a couple) make you "innocent"? Since when does killing other members of your cult (or whatever they were) make you "innocent"? Since when does starting fires (at least three) in the building with the people still inside make you "innocent"?

- under false pretences

What exactly where these "false pretences"?

- by their own authorities

So you would have had regular civilians take control of the situation?

- while pleading for help, mercy or their lives

Pleading for help while shooting?
Hmmm....

- while the law enforcement officers responsible for their death are cleared without any prosecution for "wrongful death."

So the ATF officers who were fired because of the incident.......what do you call that?

=Tasering innocent and defenseless people to death and happening at this very moment

That's a pretty bold statement that you have failed to back up with actual facts.

TJW, even if these people were resisting arrest, and could have robbed a bank and killed three people, the tasers are supposed to be non-lethal, and they've killed a few dozen people in the past few months.

Them not being innocent doesn't change the fact that tasers are lethal weapons, the very same ones Titor said to be "non-lethal turning out to be lethal."

-Chris

[edit on 7/8/2005 by Legend]

Originally posted by Legend
TJW, even if these people were resisting arrest, and could have robbed a bank and killed three people, the tasers are supposed to be non-lethal, and they've killed a few dozen people in the past few months.

Them not being innocent doesn't change the fact that tasers are lethal weapons, the very same ones Titor said to be "non-lethal turning out to be lethal."

-Chris

You can say that for just about anything. Night sticks are supposed to be non lethal yet people have been killed by them. Bats are used to play with in baseball...a sport, yet people have been killed by them. Are baseball bats a sign of the coming apocalypse also?

Also, not once in this thread have you all showed where a healthy person was killed by a taser....

Also, tasers have been around for YEARS. If they're supposed to be Waco type events, why did he say they'd start in 2004 when they've been going on since even way before he started posting?


And Roth I'm still awaiting your answers from 2 pages ago. How did I know you wouldn't answer them?

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird


Also, not once in this thread have you all showed where a healthy person was killed by a taser....

Palatka Man Who Died After Taser-Gun Shock

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
You can say that for just about anything. Night sticks are supposed to be non lethal yet people have been killed by them. Bats are used to play with in baseball...a sport, yet people have been killed by them. Are baseball bats a sign of the coming apocalypse also?

Do you not get it? Tasers are what John Titor says police officers use that aren't supposed to be lethal, but killed many people. He wasn't talking about nightsticks or baseball bats.

Law enforcement officials have killed people with what they thought was a non-lethal weapon. This is a real bad situation. As i've said, I know people who have been tasered have broken the law, but you don't get the death penalty for speeding, or DUI.

-Chris

Originally posted by Legend
Do you not get it? Tasers are what John Titor says police officers use that aren't supposed to be lethal, but killed many people. He wasn't talking about nightsticks or baseball bats.

Titor didn't once mention tasers. He said NEW weapon systems that are being developed would turn out to be lethal.

Also, again. I have asked this many times. Show me where these "many" people that have been killed are.

As i've said, I know people who have been tasered have broken the law, but you don't get the death penalty for speeding, or DUI.

True, and fortunately that hasn't happened in this country.



btw, being on drugs isn't what I consider healthy SFRemmy....

You know what your problem is ThatsJustWeird? It’s you who has such a severe reading comprehension problem.

Every time when you are ignoring and denying the facts as they are screaming in your face will only make you look more and more like a fool.

You know, this all would be very funny if it wasn’t so dreadfully sad. Here is “ThatsJustWeird”, yelling and babbling around meaningless empty words, he keeps on denying any taser-deaths, he keeps on asking for facts he cannot deliver himself but personal attacks.

Clear facts that have been presented over and over to him but he still keeps on walking in loops over and over again like a clown. Every time when you present him clear facts he STILL keeps on denying them, sticking his head in the sand so comfortably. You are exhibiting a tremendous pathetic behaviour ThatsJustWeird. I have no other words for it. It’s so sad.

John Titor: "However, there are a great many "non lethal" weapon systems in development that turn out to be quite lethal."

So true...... so very very true.

www.policeone.com...

06/30/2005

U.S. law enforcement praise Taser despite safety concerns

......now carried by officers in more than 7,000 of the nation's 18,000 law enforcement agencies.


WACO-type "taser-executions" steadily getting worse:

WACO=
- Innocent/defenseless people being killed (like the 25 children in WACO)
- under false pretences (they were portrayed as criminals and who started the fire?)
- by their own authorities
- while pleading for help, mercy or their lives (still want to argue about this?)
- while the law enforcement officers responsible for their death are cleared without any prosecution for "wrongful death."
=Tasering innocent and defenseless people to death


www.buffalonews.com...

Ontario death raises question
Link to Taser stun gun probed by authorities

7/4/2005

Niagara Regional Police are attempting to determine whether a 50,000-volt Taser stun gun caused the death of a 39-year-old burglary suspect in Beamsville, Ont.
The death of James Foldi occurred Friday, several days after the police agency began using Tasers to incapacitate combative criminal suspects.

Meanwhile, Niagara Regional Police used a Taser stun gun Saturday night on a 35-year-old Welland, Ont., man with "both hands clenched" who threatened to kill police. Police said the Welland man was uninjured by the stun gun and was arrested.

The Ontario case that might have caused a suspect's death is being watched by Niagara Falls, N.Y., Police Superintendent John R. Chella.

His department started using Tasers about six months ago. Chella said he does not know of any other police department in Western New York that is currently using the device.

"It's very unfortunate to hear about that happening in Ontario, and we'll be waiting to hear exactly what happened," Chella said. "But in our department, I've been happy with (the Taser's) performance. . . . The company that makes them has assured us that they've been thoroughly tested for safety."

In April, Amnesty International issued a report saying that there were 103 documented Taser-related deaths in North America between June 2001 and March 2005. In Florida, critics who are protesting the Taser say it has killed 25 people in the state.


www.wfaa.com...

FW sees third Taser death in 8 months

06:22 PM CDT on Wednesday, June 29, 2005

Fort Worth police are investigating another death that may be related to a Taser gun.

Convicted prostitute Carolyn Daniels, 25, died Friday night shortly after an encounter with police.

Carolyn Daniels According to reports, Daniels approached an officer in the 1100 block of Allen Avenue, saying someone was after her. The officer, who suspected Daniels was high on drugs, shot her with the Taser and placed her under arrest.

Daniels died 90 minutes later at a local hospital.

This is the third fatal incident involving a Taser in Fort Worth over the last eight months.


www.miami.com/mld/mercurynews/news/ local/states/california/peninsula/11984416.htm
www.mercurynews.com...

Officers cleared [again] in Taser case
POLICE FOLLOWED PROCEDURE WHEN DEATH OCCURRED, DA SAYS

Posted on Sat, Jun. 25, 2005

For the second time in four days, the San Mateo County district attorney has cleared police officers for their roles in deadly confrontations on the Peninsula.

District Attorney James Fox determined Friday that three Pacifica officers were following procedure when they fired Taser stun guns nine times at a drug-addled man who died shortly after a Jan. 2 struggle with police.

Prosecutors found that Gregory Saulsbury Jr., 30, was a danger to police and family members, and the officers were trying to calm him when he lunged at them. The official cause of death was ruled cardiopulmonary arrest stemming from coc aine in his system, his forcible restraint and the shocks he received from the Taser guns.

Police across the country have been embracing Tasers, which can deliver a 50,000-volt shock, as non-lethal alternatives to bullets. But criticism is mounting in Northern California, where Tasers have been connected to at least eight deaths since August.

”I think this is and will continue to be part of a national debate on the usage of Tasers,'' said John Burris, the Saulsbury family's attorney who is suing the Pacifica Police Department, alleging officers used excessive force and failed to permit emergency crews to treat him at the scene.

Burris said the district attorney's decision was “disappointing but not surprising,'' and that the family would press on with a civil suit.

In Saulsbury's death, Burris took issue with how liberally the police used their stun guns. Two officers activated their Tasers a total of 11 times, with six of those hitting Saulsbury. In the struggle, two officers were hit a total of three times, and Saulsbury's father was also shocked twice when he tried to intervene.

The coroner's report detected 22 marks on Saulsbury's body, and noted that a single activation lasts five seconds, meaning that Tasers could have struck Saulsbury more than once with each pull of the trigger.

”The number and frequency was what was most shocking to the family,” Burris said.


www.news4jax.com...
Palatka Man Who Died After Taser-Gun Shock Had 'Excited Delirium'
POSTED: 3:59 pm EDT June 16, 2005

JACKSONVILLE, Fla. -- The man who died last week after Putnam County sheriff's deputies shocked him with a Taser gun had the condition known as "excited delirium due to drug use," the medical examiner said.

Michael Anthony Edwards was stunned three times by deputies before he stopped resisting two deputies who said he had run through two glass windows of his Palatka home, out in the yard and was trying to climb a privacy fence to get away from them.

When he stopped breathing at the scene, CPR was administered, but Edwards was declared dead when he reached a hospital.

Putnam County Sheriff Dean Kelly said his officers' use of the Taser gun was appropriate and according to the training they had received, but Edwards' fianccée questioned the use of force.
"There's three Tasers on one person that's incoherent, that's on the ground, that don't have no weapons, that don't have on no clothes," Latwan Jenkins told Channel 4.

The medical examiner said the final ruling on the cause of death will not be made until the results from toxicology and other tests are complete.


www.saveourcivilliberties.org...

Another death from the 'non-lethal' taser. They claim 50,000 volts didn't have any effect on the man four times--interesting claim, considering no test has shown it NOT to have an effect immediately. The main effect, however, was fatal.

Waco man dies after police subdue him with Tasers

6/15/2005 12:06 PM
By: Associated Press

WACO, Texas -- A 62-year-old Waco man has died after police officers fired a Taser gun at him four times, then forcibly subdued him with handcuffs.

Police responding to a domestic-dispute call yesterday found Robert Earl Williams in his backyard just off Interstate 35 near downtown Waco.

Officers learned he was wanted after his bail had been revoked on a previous resisting-arrest charge.

Officers say that when they advanced, the six-foot, 350-pound man brandished a piece of rebar. They fired Taser darts at him four times without effect, so five officers forcibly subdued and handcuffed the man.

Police say Williams was sitting on the ground when he complained of difficulty breathing. They say he stopped breathing before an ambulance arrived, and efforts to revive him failed.

Five police officers are on routine paid leave pending an investigation.


biz.yahoo.com...

Taser Guns: The 'Less Than Lethal' Deadly Weapon

Tuesday May 17, 2005 4:45 pm ET

FORT MYERS, Fla., May 17 /PRNewswire/ -- The following statement was issued today by Attorney Paul Christian Sullivan of Viles & Beckman, P.A.:

Tasers are at the center of a national debate that truly hits home for Florida residents. In just the last 18 months, 24 Central Florida students, some as young as 6 and 12 years old, were zapped by a taser -- sometimes two or three times in quick succession. One child was handicapped.

One was subdued with handcuffs in the back seat of a patrol car and then tasered. Some have died. Christopher Hernandez, of Fort Myers, FL, was subdued permanently by deputies using a taser gun. Mr. Hernandez was only 19 years of age when he died last December. Kevin M. Downing, of Cape Coral, FL, and Timothy Bolander, of Delray Beach, FL, also died last December after being tasered by police.

The most recent taser incident that has stunned the nation took place in Seattle earlier this month. Malaika Brooks, who was eight months pregnant at the time of the assault, was tasered by Seattle Police after she refused to sign for a parking ticket. According to her testimony, Seattle Police officers activated a taser on her thigh and then again on her neck.

Since 1997, Taser International, the largest manufacturer of taser products in the United States, has sold 130,000 units to 7,000 police departments in the United States and abroad. This has resulted in the deaths of 103 people in North America after being exposed to the weapon's 50,000 volts.


www.officer.com...

Taser-linked Death Ruled a Homicide in Toledo, Ohio

Updated: April 14th, 2005 01:17 PM EDT

County Prosecutor Julia Bates said her office will conduct a review of the incident before deciding whether to take any action.

After he was carried into the county jail, Turner was booked and ate a boxed lunch before becoming agitated again in his cell. He refused attempts to restrain him and corrections officers then shocked him with a Taser.

A nurse dispatched to Turner's cell as a matter of procedure after the stun gun's use discovered he was unresponsive. He died a short time later at St. Vincent Mercy Medical Center.

No criminal or administrative charges were filed against the jail officials. City police officers also faced no criminal charges, but four police officers and a sergeant were administratively charged for improperly handcuffing Turner at the time of his arrest. Hearings on the charges were set for last month but were continued. No new dates have been set.

Family seeks firings
Shawn Turner said yesterday he was pleased with the coroner's ruling in his brother's death. The central city resident and TARTA bus driver said he wants those involved, particularly those at the sheriff's office, fired.

"If I did my job and I killed someone, do you think they'd keep me? No, they wouldn't keep me," he said.

While calling Turner's death "unfortunate," Steve Tuttle, vice president of communications for Taser International, said the firm continues to believe in the life-saving value of its devices.

Taser use to continue
Toledo police Chief Mike Navarre said in a statement yesterday that his department will continue to use Tasers, will review and analyze studies detailing the effects of the devices, and "will take any appropriate further action based upon those findings."

David Taylor III, a Toledo lawyer and former president of the NAACP's Toledo branch, sent a letter to the Toledo FBI office yesterday demanding an immediate investigation by the U.S. Justice Department into what he called a violation of Turner's civil rights.


www.news4jax.com...
Lake City Man Dies After Shock With Taser Gun
POSTED: 5:40 pm EST March 11, 2005

A Lake City man died Friday while officers were attempting to take him into custody for an involuntary mental health evaluation at a local hospital, according to the Columbia County Sheriff's Office.

Milton Woolfolk, 39, refused to be taken into custody for a psychiatric examination by a sheriff's deputy after being served a court order, officials said. The deputy called for backup, but still could not be restrained.

Officers said Woolfolk, who was 5 feet 9 inches tall and weighs 250 pounds, is known as an extremely strong individual with a history of physical resistance to officers.
According to the sheriff's office, deputies warned Woolfolk that they would use a Taser gun on him if he continued to resist, then shocked him with the 50,000-volt stun gun.

Rather that reacting as a normal victim of the stun gun, authorities said Woolfolk pulled the prongs from his skin. Once officers had him on the ground, Woolfolk became unresponsive and was transported to Shands Medical Center at Lake Shore. He was pronounced dead a short time later.

"This is a terribly unfortunate event and I am so sorry for this family, but initial indications are that my officers responded in an appropriate manner, " Sheriff Bill Gootee said in a statement. "Mr. Woolfolk has a long history of violence and our deputies are properly trained how to use their Tasers and under what circumstances, and I believe that is what they did."
Channel 4's Scott Johnson reported that while it was Woolfolk's family that asked the sheriff's office to take him in for an involuntary mental-health exam, they were shocked that Wolfolk died in the process.

"They killed my son in cold blood," mother Claudia Woolfolk said.
At Gootee's request, the Florida Department of Law Enforcement is conducting the investigation.


www.ajc.com...

Williams died at May 25, 2004

Videotape shows Williams tasered repeatedly
His last words were: "Don't kill me, man. Don't kill me."

A videotape of the struggle between Frederick Williams and Gwinnett County Sheriff's deputies shows he was struck with a Taser stun gun five times within one minute. Within four minutes, the 31-year-old Lawrenceville man had lost consciousness.

The tape, filmed at the Gwinnett County jail, was part of an 11-month investigatory file that District Attorney Danny Porter's office released this week. The file became public after Porter announced he will not press criminal charges against deputies involved in the incident. Porter asked the grand jury to consider the case this week.

"The evidence and particularly the videotape raised questions that were most appropriately answered by the grand jury," Porter said. "The grand jury declined to go forward."

Melvin Johnson, an attorney representing Williams' wife and four children, has seen the videotape.

He said he disagrees with the district attorney's decision. He has asked the FBI to investigate.

"He was pleading for his life," Johnson said. "They claim they were trying to immobilize him but he was already in handcuffs. They were clearly trying to inflict pain on a person they thought had injured one of their fellow officers."

Williams was arrested May 25, 2004, during a domestic disturbance at his home.

According to police reports, Williams' family said he refused to take his epilepsy medication and was acting violent and irrational.

Williams got into an altercation with the first officer arriving on the scene, Gwinnett police Officer R.E. Kenyon. According to an incident report, Williams charged the officer and grabbed his baton as Kenyon tried to strike him. The two struggled over the baton and Kenyon lost his balance, falling to the ground, bloodying his nose.

Kenyon called for backup over his police radio. Several officers arrived and tackled and subdued Williams.

He was taken to the jail, where deputies were alerted that they had a "delta," Gwinnett law enforcement slang meaning a combative inmate.

About 11 deputies were standing at the back door of the jail as an officer dropped Williams off, including a deputy who was videotaping the episode.

Williams, his arms handcuffed behind his back, his feet bound, was rocking back and forth in the back of the police car as deputies approached. The deputies grabbed him out of the car and carried him into the jail. As they were carrying him, Williams pleaded with deputies not to kill him. It was his last audible comment.

They carried him through the jail entrance to an area where restraint chairs are located. They placed him in a chair that resembles an adult-sized car seat used to immobilize combative inmates.

Williams appeared to be attempting to free himself from the chair, surrounded by deputies.

One deputy wrapped his arm around Williams' head and chin. Others were holding his arms and legs as Deputy Michael Mustachio applied the Taser to his chest.

One deputy commands Williams to stop resisting.

"Do you want another one?" Mustachio said, referring to the stun gun.

Within one minute, Williams was shocked a total of five times.

His handcuffs were not removed until after he lost consciousness.

Once it was clear that Williams was unconscious, deputies began to administer aid. Someone called for an ambulance.

Williams never regained consciousness and was pronounced dead two days later.

Gwinnett police Detective Steve Shaw investigated the incident and concluded that deputies did not violate the Sheriff's Department policy or any laws.

Link to video:
wm.gannett.speedera.net...



John Titor: "There's not a great deal I know about Canada except to say they were pretty much in the same type of conflict."


WACO-type “taser-executions” in Canada steadily getting worse:
fifth Taser-related death in B.C. in just over a year.

www.canada.com...

Surrey man dies after RCMP use Taser
Woman says her husband was 'paranoid and scared' when police shocked him multiple times

Brad Badelt and Jennifer Miller
Vancouver Sun

July 1, 2005

A Surrey man is dead after being shocked with a Taser weapon by Surrey RCMP in his home early Thursday. It was the fifth Taser-related death in B.C. in just over a year.

Surrey RCMP would not confirm how many times the victim, Gurmeet Sandhu, 41, was hit with a Taser, but the victim's wife, Harjinder Sandhu, who was home at the time, alleges her husband was shocked multiple times.

"At least four or five times," Sandhu said.

"There were two Tasers involved."

Surrey RCMP arrived at the home on 84A Avenue around 3:30 a.m. after receiving a 911 call about a domestic dispute taking place, Const. Mark Searle said.

When officers arrived, they were "immediately confronted by a highly agitated and combative" man who proceeded to assault the woman "in plain view" of the officers, Searle said.

Searle said the victim began fighting with police after an officer stepped in to arrest him, prompting the officer to make an emergency call for more help.

"In effect you're sending out your own 911," he said.

Searle said it is not known how many officers responded to the call or how many times the victim was shocked with a Taser before his death.

Sandhu's wife, who was married to him for 22 years, alleges between eight and 12 officers tried to subdue her husband.

Sandhu also said her husband did not assault her, or any other female, as reported by RCMP.

"He was paranoid and he was scared -- he was trying to hold onto me because he was so scared," she said.

She also alleges her husband was kicked in the chest by an officer.

According to Sandhu, her husband awoke in a violent and delirious state that culminated in him throwing a glass through the front window. She said she told her downstairs neighbour to called 911.

"I wanted an ambulance -- that's what I wanted," she said.

Sandhu said she did not know why her husband awoke in such a state -- he had dinner and drinks with the downstairs neighbours earlier in the night before going to bed, she said.

Nicole Saville, a downstairs neighbour who called 911, said she called police to settle down Sandhu, who she described as a "one of the best guys you'd ever meet."

"It's sad -- you phone these people for protection and they cause a death," she said.

Searle said officers performed CPR on Sandhu until emergency medical help arrived, but he was later pronounced dead at the hospital.

Sandhu was not known to police and his death is being considered an "in-custody death," which always results in an investigation, Searle said.

"This incident is being treated with the utmost importance," he said.

The death comes just two weeks after the Victoria police department released a report that said Taser weapons -- which deliver up to a 50,000-volt shock through two barbed darts -- should not be used multiple times.

RCMP spokesman Tom Seaman said officers can deploy the weapon more than once if the situation warrants.

A recent report by Amnesty International found 103 people had died from Tasers in Canada and the U.S. over the past four years. Earlier this year, Chicago police stopped using the device.

[edit on 8-7-2005 by Roth Joint]

B.t.w. I hope you haven't forgotten:

"All those arrested are presumed innocent until found guilty in a court of law".....

Originally posted by Roth Joint
Every time when you are ignoring and denying the facts as they are screaming in your face will only make you look more and more like a fool.

Go back and read through this thread. Everytime I asked you for evidecence you FAILED to produce. Every time. Denying facts?? You gave me no facts to deny!?
I asked you many times earlier to provide info that "many" people were dying from tasers who were either healthy or innocent. You haven't done squat, until this post. And even in this post, please go through and read for your self the situations!

he keeps on denying any taser-deaths, he keeps on asking for facts he cannot deliver himself.

See this is where you prove once again you have problems reading. I haven't denied anything. I asked you plain and simple show me where all these people were dying from taser deaths who were innocent as you've claimed (meaning completely obeying the officers) or healthy (including not high on drugs). Not once in this thread did you addess that. Not once. Until this post (and again, please read through the situations).
I'm not the one delivering facts, I'm asking for them.

Clear facts that have been presented over and over to him but he still keeps on walking in loops over and over again like a clown.

Where? Where are those facts that have been presented? Where are they?
I have presented plenty of facts regarding Titor and the supposed civil war that isn't happening but is supposed to be right now, yet YOU are the one who keeps skirting the issues. ANSWER MY QUESTIONS. They're not that hard. And the end of this post I'll post the questions you have yet to answer.

It's unfortunate that people have died when all they had to do was simply obey the law. That's it. NONE of those incidents would have happened if they had cooperated. NONE.
It's also unfortunate when people are shot to death by police. Why haven't you mentioned all those incidents? Those would be closer related to Waco type events than tasers would be. No one was tasered but people were shot at Waco and Titor mentioned nothing about tasers being Waco type events so why are you making it seem like they are, rather than police officers shooting a suspect to death?

Ok now questions you need to answer:
You haven't answered the questions to your favorite quote -
You:

WACO=
- Innocent people being killed

Me:
Since when does having shootouts with FBI and ATF agents (even killing a couple) make you "innocent"? Since when does killing other members of your cult (or whatever they were) make you "innocent"? Since when does starting fires (at least three) in the building with the people still inside make you "innocent"?

- under false pretences

What exactly where these "false pretences"?

- by their own authorities

So you would have had regular civilians take control of the situation?

- while pleading for help, mercy or their lives

Pleading for help while shooting?
Hmmm....

- while the law enforcement officers responsible for their death are cleared without any prosecution for "wrongful death."

So the ATF officers who were fired because of the incident.......what do you call that?


More questions:
1. Anyway, you seem to be on a one track mind Roth. Besides tasering is there any other things that you consider Waco type events Roth?
I can tell you now with 100% certainty that tasering will NOT cause a Civil War. There has to be something more. So what is it? Or is tasering your only claim to Titor being "right"?

2. I asked you to provide proof that Waco type events were getting worse.

I want real answers to these
3a. Question 3: Don't you find it odd that the Titor story has many similarities with other works of fiction?

b1. So are you a believer or non believer [in Titor]
b2. Do you think Titor is a work of fiction? Simple yes or no answer.

c. Question 5: Have you done anything to prepare for a Civil War? If so, how has your daily routine been affected by your preps?
(I mean millions of people are going to die in the war that supposedly started last year. Surely since you believe it's started already you've done something. Have you followed Titor's advice?)

d. Question 6: Do you honestly truely think that the five barriers (there's more than that) that I posted about before can be broken with in the next 5 months and a Civil War break out? Do you honestly see a Civil War in this country without something terribly devestating happening first?
If so, give us a play by play (IN YOUR OWN WORDS - Do not quote Titor at all) on how it'll happen. Tell us how you think the first battle will start. Tell us how you think civilians can go up against the strongest military in the world, etc.

e. Question 7: Do you have anything else to discuss? All your posts have been Titor related. Why? What's your obsession? Is that the only reason why you're here?

With regarding innocent and defenseless people I asked
4. How do you think the whole Waco incident exploded like it did?



That's alot so I'll let you answer those first before continuing. Please. Please. Before going back to the taser issue, please answer these questions.

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
I asked you many times earlier to provide info that "many" people were dying from tasers who were either healthy or innocent. You haven't done squat, until this post. And even in this post, please go through and read for your self the situations!

What I've posted in my last post was posted before on this thread. Yes you will keep on ignoring and denying facts until there's no way you can deny it anymore. Now do you understand why I keep on repeating them? I recommend you first read before you reply. It all saves us a whole lot of wasted energy.

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
See this is where you prove once again you have problems reading. I haven't denied anything. I asked you plain and simple show me where all these people were dying from taser deaths who were innocent as you've claimed (meaning completely obeying the officers) or healthy (including not high on drugs). Not once in this thread did you addess that. Not once. Until this post (and again, please read through the situations).
I'm not the one delivering facts, I'm asking for them.

You are trying to justify the taser executions by our own law enforcement officers. It won't work. You are denying people are dying from direct contact with the taser. That wont work either. Would those people have died on the scene if they weren't been tasered? Ofcourse not. And I hope you haven't forgotten as I said in my previous post: all those arrested are presumed innocent until found guilty in a court of law.

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
I have presented plenty of facts regarding Titor and the supposed civil war that isn't happening but is supposed to be right now, yet YOU are the one who keeps skirting the issues.

Where? Where are those facts that have been presented? Where are they ThatsJustWeird?

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
ANSWER MY QUESTIONS. They're not that hard. And the end of this post I'll post the questions you have yet to answer.

Who do you think you are? Are you perhaps trying to order me? Why don't you have a good thorough look in the mirror?

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
It's unfortunate that people have died when all they had to do was simply obey the law. That's it. NONE of those incidents would have happened if they had cooperated. NONE.

Obviously you agree upon children age 6-18 being tasered. If that's the case then you are an animal in the worst sense of being.

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
It's also unfortunate when people are shot to death by police. Why haven't you mentioned all those incidents? Those would be closer related to Waco type events than tasers would be. No one was tasered but people were shot at Waco and Titor mentioned nothing about tasers being Waco type events so why are you making it seem like they are, rather than police officers shooting a suspect to death?

Interesting. You are making a little progress. Yes those innocent people, 25 children in WACO were killed by their own law enforcement officers. You don't really believe those people started the fire to burn themselves to death do you? Furthermore Titor specifically mentioned the "non-lethal" weapon systems such as tasers becoming quite lethal. He also mentioned "YOU!" (the innocent/defenseless civilian) would be the enemy of the taser users, the officers of the law. I ask you again: how many INNOCENT and DEFENSELESS people are SHOT to death by their own law enforcement officers? Well?

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
Ok now questions you need to answer:
You haven't answered the questions to your favorite quote -
You:

WACO=
- Innocent people being killed

Me:
Since when does having shootouts with FBI and ATF agents (even killing a couple) make you "innocent"? Since when does killing other members of your cult (or whatever they were) make you "innocent"? Since when does starting fires (at least three) in the building with the people still inside make you "innocent"?

- under false pretences

What exactly where these "false pretences"?

Obviously you truly believe that all these people burned themselves to death. You obviously truly believe that. Ever heard about those infamous incendiary devices? Inflammable gas pumped into the building? Ever read about that? You are the perfect believer of the information machine I referred to in my previous post. Do you think they would provide you with honest information regarding the taser deaths in this country steadily getting worse? Do you?

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird

- by their own authorities

So you would have had regular civilians take control of the situation?

If they wouldn't kill me when pleading for help, mercy or my life, YES!
How would you like to be executed by your own law enforcement officer? By gun or by taser?

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird

- while pleading for help, mercy or their lives

Pleading for help while shooting?
Hmmm....

Why don't you read up on the transcriptions of the 911 tapes of negotiations. Read them very very carefully. Mmmmmh......

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird

- while the law enforcement officers responsible for their death are cleared without any prosecution for "wrongful death."

So the ATF officers who were fired because of the incident.......what do you call that?

You've got to be joking. You are kidding, right? Really, were they fired? Such an incredible harsh punishment! (sarcasm mode turned off). Oh my God they were fired for killing innocent and defenseless people. They were fired for killing 25 children. This is outrageous! (sarcasm mode turned off again).

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
1. Anyway, you seem to be on a one track mind Roth. Besides tasering is there any other things that you consider Waco type events Roth?
I can tell you now with 100% certainty that tasering will NOT cause a Civil War. There has to be something more. So what is it? Or is tasering your only claim to Titor being "right"?

I won't keep on repeating myself. There are many many more things regarding John Titor I have mentioned on this thread and they are very interesting. Why don't you get of your lazy ... and read them again for yourself? You might learn something....

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
2. I asked you to provide proof that Waco type events were getting worse.

I have. Again why don't you get of your lazy ... and read them again for yourself? Why don't you read a little bit more up on the news?

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
I want real answers to these
3a. Question 3: Don't you find it odd that the Titor story has many similarities with other works of fiction?

Again, read the work of Morgan Robertson. He "predicted" the end result of the Titanic 14 years before it actually happened in every detail of his "predictions." Now don't you think that's odd?

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
b1. So are you a believer or non believer [in Titor]
b2. Do you think Titor is a work of fiction? Simple yes or no answer.

That I will have to keep to myself.

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
c. Question 5: Have you done anything to prepare for a Civil War? If so, how has your daily routine been affected by your preps?
(I mean millions of people are going to die in the war that supposedly started last year. Surely since you believe it's started already you've done something. Have you followed Titor's advice?)

Why don't you first ask a proper question without any insinuations.
Let me ask you a question: Why would John Titor mention the US civil war and it's characteristics? Would he have done it if you and I could NOT do anything about it? Why don't you take your responsibility? Do you really believe that nothing will happen? Dream on.

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
d. Question 6: Do you honestly truely think that the five barriers (there's more than that) that I posted about before can be broken with in the next 5 months and a Civil War break out? Do you honestly see a Civil War in this country without something terribly devestating happening first?
If so, give us a play by play (IN YOUR OWN WORDS - Do not quote Titor at all) on how it'll happen. Tell us how you think the first battle will start. Tell us how you think civilians can go up against the strongest military in the world, etc.

You are serious aren't you? You really expect me to give you more details than I already have do you? Again, why don't you get off your lazy ... and read my previous posts again. You don't think a US civil war could happen? Well let me tell you this then: I think it is most definitely possible. Read up on the fall of the Berlin wall. Those people never knew how freedom even tasted. Yet that gigantic wall fell. No one could have ever "predicted" it. It seemed impossible at that time. What do you think people would do who knew how freedom tasted. Would you hope nothing?

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
e. Question 7: Do you have anything else to discuss? All your posts have been Titor related. Why? What's your obsession? Is that the only reason why you're here?

You seem to be pretty obsessed yourself. With me perhaps?

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
With regarding innocent and defenseless people I asked
4. How do you think the whole Waco incident exploded like it did?

Do you really believe those 50 people and 25 children in WACO burned themselves to death?

Do you really believe all taser deaths were justified and happened exactly as reported by the law enforcement officers?

[edit on 9-7-2005 by Roth Joint]

WACO-type Taser executions upon innocent/defenseless US civilians 2005

Law enforcements officers cleared from any wrongdoing
and without any prosecution for "wrongful death" over and over again:

www.mercurynews.com...

Pacifica police cleared in Taser death

San Jose Mercury News, CA - Jun 24, 2005

The San Mateo County District Attorney's office has cleared three Pacifica officers in the Jan. 2 death of distraught 30-year-old man. Police arrived at the residence after relatives called 911 seeking medical attention for Gregory Saulsbury Jr. who was having trouble breathing and acting strangely.

www.reviewjournal.com...

LV officers cleared in death
Inquest finds combative man responsible; ACLU critical of police and prosecutors

Saturday, July 09, 2005
Copyright © Las Vegas Review-Journal

Jurors at a coroner's inquest Friday determined that a man high on coc aine during a struggle with Las Vegas police was responsible for his own death.
"We didn't think anybody else caused his death. They did all they could to help him," juror Jake Lucas, 30, said after the jury determined the actions of the officers in the June struggle were justified.

Originally posted by Roth Joint
Would those people have died on the scene if they weren't been tasered? Ofcourse not.

Would they have died if they obeyed the officers? ....that's what I asked.

And I hope you haven't forgotten as I said in my previous post: all those arrested are presumed innocent until found guilty in a court of law.

Then why are you automatically assuming the officers are guilty??
Don't you see a double standard?

Where? Where are those facts that have been presented? Where are they ThatsJustWeird?

Read. Read. Read.
Read about my posts on time travel. Read my post and links on Waco and you'll see how nothing like that is going on today. Read my post about Civil War according to Titor's definition and you'll see there's nothing like that going on today. Read.

Obviously you agree upon children age 6-18 being tasered.

Where did I say that? Tell me. Where? Again putting words in my mouth to further your agenda...

The next few "answers" you prove you have read nothing about Waco even though I asked you many times to. You even claimed you did. But reading over your answers it's extremely evident you haven't. So again, I'm begging you....read up on Waco. Please. For your own good. Do NOT go by hearsay. Read what happened for yourself.
Once you've finished, please answer the questions again.

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
1. Anyway, you seem to be on a one track mind Roth. Besides tasering is there any other things that you consider Waco type events Roth?
I can tell you now with 100% certainty that tasering will NOT cause a Civil War. There has to be something more. So what is it? Or is tasering your only claim to Titor being "right"?

I won't keep on repeating myself. There are many many more things regarding John Titor I have mentioned on this thread and they are very interesting. Why don't you get of your lazy ... and read them again for yourself? You might learn something....
I asked you a simple question. Is there anything else besides tasering that you consider a Waco type events. I read through all your posts again, and you haven't presented anything other than tasers.
So I'm asking again. Is there anything other than tasers that you consider Waco type events? Tasers will not cause a Civil War. I can guarentee you that. So there has to be something else. Why else would Titor say the war would involve organized armed conflict. What is that something else?

I have. Again why don't you get of your lazy ... and read them again for yourself? Why don't you read a little bit more up on the news?

Again, I asked you a simple question. I asked for you to show me where Waco type events are getting worse. All you've done is posted where tasers have happened. I didn't ask about tasers, I asked about Waco type events. Even if you consider tasers Waco type events, you still haven't shown where they've got worse. All you've done is post articles (some more than once to make it seem like alot) about them happening not getting worse.

Again, read the work of Morgan Robertson. He "predicted" the end result of the Titanic 14 years before it actually happened in every detail of his "predictions." Now don't you think that's odd?

You're not answering the question. This has nothing to do about making predictions. What Titor wrote in 2001 has way too many similarities to other works of fiction to be coincidental. Don't you think thats odd?

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
b1. So are you a believer or non believer [in Titor]
b2. Do you think Titor is a work of fiction? Simple yes or no answer.

That I will have to keep to myself.
Why's that?
Perhaps it's you want to believe in Titor. You want Titor's Civil War to happen to millions of innocent people did. You want death and destruction, but you can't prove Time travel.
Perhaps it's yes you believe in Titor but don't want to admit to believing a work of fiction.
Perhaps it's yes but you still want to wait and see if he's right.
Perhaps it's no but you get a (HO) by defending him to death.
Perhaps as was mentioned by another person earlier, you really are John Titor (hence your current name) trying desperately to correct your mistakes of 4 years ago.

Originally posted by ThatsJustWeird
c. Question 5: Have you done anything to prepare for a Civil War? If so, how has your daily routine been affected by your preps?
(I mean millions of people are going to die in the war that supposedly started last year. Surely since you believe it's started already you've done something. Have you followed Titor's advice?)

Why don't you first ask a proper question without any insinuations.
Let me ask you a question: Why would John Titor mention the US civil war and it's characteristics? Would he have done it if you and I could NOT do anything about it? Why don't you take your responsibility? Do you really believe that nothing will happen? Dream on.
So what's your answer?

Do I really believe nothing will happen? If by that do I believe a Civil War will NOT happen then yes. With the way the country is right now, it is IMPOSSIBLE. Period. I listed 5 things earlier that would have to break if there were to be a civil war. There's more than those 5 things.

You are serious aren't you? You really expect me to give you more details than I already have do you? Again, why don't you get off your lazy ... and read my previous posts again.

I read your posts again. I don't see once where you said what YOU think will happen. I'm not talking about Titor, I'm talking about YOU. Where2hide has done that, but not you.

You don't think a US civil war could happen? Well let me tell you this then: I think it is most definitely possible. Read up on the fall of the Berlin wall. Those people never knew how freedom even tasted. Yet that gigantic wall fell.

What are you talking about? What about the fall of the Berlin wall? The fall of the Berlin wall signified and end to communism/the Cold War. Titor is talking about a Civil War that will eventually lead to most of the population of Earth being wiped out. Huge difference

No one could have ever "predicted" it.

You're just babbling now. Go read a history book.

What do you think people would do who knew how freedom tasted. Would you hope nothing?

You seem to be pretty obsessed yourself. With me perhaps?

You spelled it wrong. It's a-n-n-o-y-e-d. Annoyed with you not giving straight answers, skirting issues, etc.

Titor said there would be armed conflicts growing worse and worse starting last year. Why hasn't that happened?
He said there would be civil unrest (please look up civil unrest in the dictionary or encyclopedia) during the elections. Why didn't the dictionary definition (not your definition) of civil unrest happen?

Do you really believe those 50 people and 25 children in WACO burned themselves to death?

Please read up on Waco. This is sad...

Do you really believe all taser deaths were justified and happened exactly as reported by the law enforcement officers?

I don't have all the facts and neither do you. I'm not going to jump to conclusions as you're doing. I'm pretty sure in some of the cases the officers could have/should have used other methods of subduing the suspect (like shooting him [

]) and in those cases the officer was indeed wrong. Does that make it a Waco type event? No. That's gone on LONG before Waco. Is a Civil War going to break out because of that? No.
I recommend you getting friends who are police officers, It'll give you a much better understanding on just how much stuff they have to deal with on a daily basis.