Trump’s EU ambassador ordered to not give deposition

originally posted by: underwerks
a reply to: Scepticaldem

I'm just wondering what business the ambassador to the EU has in a non-EU country...

Any other assumptions you add to that statement is on you.

The ambassador to the Ukraine has no business in the Ukraine?

What in the world are you trying to say? I didnt bring the European union into any of this......

Lolz🤪🤪🤪🤪🤪🤪🤪

originally posted by: underwerks
a reply to: Scepticaldem

I'm just wondering what business the ambassador to the EU has in a non-EU country...

Any other assumptions you add to that statement is on you.

The ambassador to the Ukraine has no business in the Ukraine?

What in the world are you trying to say? I didnt bring the European union into any of this......

Lolz🤪🤪🤪🤪🤪🤪🤪

originally posted by: CynConcepts

originally posted by: underwerks

originally posted by: Arnie123

originally posted by: underwerks

originally posted by: Arnie123

originally posted by: underwerks
a reply to: Extorris

Trump blocks testimony of anyone that might say something that incriminates him.

Totally the actions of an innocent man.

Yes, by a biased party hell bent on "getting Trump" and their emotionally charged low info voters.

Going by you and others responses, it seems to be you guys who are more emotionally charged than anyone. To the point of throwing out the rule of law and the constitution just because of something you assume about the other side..

Oh the irony of low info voters, what law is being thrown and who is not following the constitution otherr than Pelosis illegal impeachment announcement without formal vote? Don't make me laugh

I'm just curious what an EU ambassador is doing in the Ukraine, which isn't in the EU..

But obviously you're against transparency, so I dont expect you to have the same curiosity.

Well I would imagine since Trump believed that the EU should be helping Ukraine more, that he would need his EU ambassador involved with such a topic. Trump has been very transparent and even with his phone conversation stated the EU should be more involved.

Common sense and logic why the EU ambassador would be involved with Ukraine one would think.

What Trump has stated about the lack of EU contributions isn't true though. In fact, the EU has contributed more to Ukraine than America has.

President Donald Trump wrongly said that “Europe and other nations” were “not” contributing to Ukraine, specifically calling for Germany and France to “put up money.” In fact, the European Union and European financial institutions have contributed more than $16.4 billion in grants and loans to Ukraine since 2014.

European countries have contributed an estimated two-thirds of all of the aid to Ukraine since Russia annexed Crimea in 2014 and launched a conflict in the Donbas region in eastern Ukraine, according to Iain King, a visiting fellow at the Center for Strategic and International Studies.

According to the Organisation for Economic Cooperation and Development, EU institutions top the OECD’s list of the top 10 donors of official development assistance to Ukraine, with $425.2 million contributed on average for 2016-2017. The U.S. was second with $204.4 million in assistance, closely followed by Germany, which contributed $189.8 million on its own, in addition to contributions it would have made through the European Union.

CSIS’ King, a former U.K. defense and foreign conflict specialist, detailed the aid the U.S. and other countries have provided to Ukraine in a Sept. 26 report. U.S. Agency for International Development figures King cited show the U.S. has contributed between $272 million and $513 million annually since 2014. As for military assistance, the U.S. has contributed about $800 million, “which includes small arms, counter-narcotics efforts, training programs, and military advisers to support and improve the Ukrainian forces, among others,” King wrote.

Those are sizable numbers, but the EU has given more. “The European Union is the largest donor to Ukraine” King wrote, estimating that the EU has given almost twice as much on average per year than the U.S. since 2014.

Link

The argument that Donald Trump is using here simply isn't true when you look at the actual figures.

originally posted by: Scepticaldem

originally posted by: underwerks
a reply to: Scepticaldem

I'm just wondering what business the ambassador to the EU has in a non-EU country...

Any other assumptions you add to that statement is on you.

The ambassador to the Ukraine has no business in the Ukraine?

What in the world are you trying to say? I didnt bring the European union into any of this......

Lolz🤪🤪🤪🤪🤪🤪🤪

The EU ambassador isn't the ambassador to the Ukraine. First it was Marie Yovanovitch and now there isn't an ambassador, there's only someone in an acting role, William B. Taylor Jr..

Big lolz.

Lmao.

originally posted by: underwerks

originally posted by: CynConcepts

originally posted by: underwerks

originally posted by: Arnie123

originally posted by: underwerks

originally posted by: Arnie123

originally posted by: underwerks
a reply to: Extorris

Trump blocks testimony of anyone that might say something that incriminates him.

Totally the actions of an innocent man.

Yes, by a biased party hell bent on "getting Trump" and their emotionally charged low info voters.

Going by you and others responses, it seems to be you guys who are more emotionally charged than anyone. To the point of throwing out the rule of law and the constitution just because of something you assume about the other side..

Oh the irony of low info voters, what law is being thrown and who is not following the constitution otherr than Pelosis illegal impeachment announcement without formal vote? Don't make me laugh

I'm just curious what an EU ambassador is doing in the Ukraine, which isn't in the EU..

But obviously you're against transparency, so I dont expect you to have the same curiosity.

Well I would imagine since Trump believed that the EU should be helping Ukraine more, that he would need his EU ambassador involved with such a topic. Trump has been very transparent and even with his phone conversation stated the EU should be more involved.

Common sense and logic why the EU ambassador would be involved with Ukraine one would think.

What Trump has stated about the lack of EU contributions isn't true though. In fact, the EU has contributed more to Ukraine than America has.

President Donald Trump wrongly said that “Europe and other nations” were “not” contributing to Ukraine, specifically calling for Germany and France to “put up money.” In fact, the European Union and European financial institutions have contributed more than $16.4 billion in grants and loans to Ukraine since 2014.

European countries have contributed an estimated two-thirds of all of the aid to Ukraine since Russia annexed Crimea in 2014 and launched a conflict in the Donbas region in eastern Ukraine, according to Iain King, a visiting fellow at the Center for Strategic and International Studies.

According to the Organisation for Economic Cooperation and Development, EU institutions top the OECD’s list of the top 10 donors of official development assistance to Ukraine, with $425.2 million contributed on average for 2016-2017. The U.S. was second with $204.4 million in assistance, closely followed by Germany, which contributed $189.8 million on its own, in addition to contributions it would have made through the European Union.

CSIS’ King, a former U.K. defense and foreign conflict specialist, detailed the aid the U.S. and other countries have provided to Ukraine in a Sept. 26 report. U.S. Agency for International Development figures King cited show the U.S. has contributed between $272 million and $513 million annually since 2014. As for military assistance, the U.S. has contributed about $800 million, “which includes small arms, counter-narcotics efforts, training programs, and military advisers to support and improve the Ukrainian forces, among others,” King wrote.

Those are sizable numbers, but the EU has given more. “The European Union is the largest donor to Ukraine” King wrote, estimating that the EU has given almost twice as much on average per year than the U.S. since 2014.

Link

The argument that Donald Trump is using here simply isn't true when you look at the actual figures.

OK you got me on all that!

You had stated the Robert Mueller and his 3+ year into everything Trump would snag him up in something, right?

Now that is over

cnn and msnbc are now stuck on one 15 minute phone call for articles of impeachment?

Lolz🤪

But dont look into Ukrainian corruption that Trump had nothing to do with......

Pelosi is definitely going to win this one with no votes and a kid on a Ukrainian energy company!

Lolz

a reply to: underwerks

It is obvious that Trump believes that the EU / Ukraine relations is beneficial mostly for them. The US shouldn't have to be funding as much as we do due to his stance that the EU countries have grown from their post war era and should begin pulling up their bootstraps to take care of themselves. Thus freeing America to focus more on our own domestic issues or more personal beneficial international issues.

The EU should definitely be contributing more than the US.

originally posted by: Lysergic

what expertise do you have to even state that?

Last time during 2016 season...

I called out a Russian Propaganda troll posing as a US Citizen in posts complete with broken English (against T&C to pose as someone you are not and Russian trolls posing as US Cits not welcome) I encouraged the Mods to check his IP Geo location. He got banned/deleted within an hour.

Within 30 minutes my PW was reset on ATS and the gmail/email addy associated with ATS login had it's password changed as well, through gmail/google chrome login I had a virus put on my laptop and my old ATS account was not recoverable. They posted once on ATS under my old account posing as me. Mods shut down that old account at my request.

Negative flags are not a thing. Yes Mods can award 5 stars in a swipe if they think it a great thread, yes they can shut down a thread which automatically wipes stars and flags from everything, but they do not have the mechanism to hit an up and down button on number of flags, thus moving a thread up or down, front page or buried, at will. Can you imagine that scenario? Mods secretly adding or subtracting flags so they can fake and choose what stories appear popular to ATS users? Not a thing and if I am wrong and it is then ATS has gone full-on state-propaganda.

THAT is why I say hack.

You asked...

originally posted by: Extorris

originally posted by: Lysergic

what expertise do you have to even state that?

Last time during 2016 season...

I called out a Russian Propaganda troll posing as a US Citizen in posts complete with broken English (against T&C to pose as someone you are not and Russian trolls posing as US Cits not welcome) I encouraged the Mods to check his IP Geo location. He got banned/deleted within an hour.

Within 30 minutes my PW was reset on ATS and the gmail/email addy associated with ATS login had it's password changed as well, through gmail/google chrome login I had a virus put on my laptop and my old ATS account was not recoverable. They posted once on ATS under my old account posing as me. Mods shut down that old account at my request.

Negative flags are not a thing. Yes Mods can award 5 stars in a swipe if they think it a great thread, yes they can shut down a thread which automatically wipes stars and flags from everything, but they do not have the mechanism to hit an up and down button on number of flags, thus moving a thread up or down, front page or buried, at will. Can you imagine that scenario? Mods secretly adding or subtracting flags so they can fake and choose what stories appear popular to ATS users? Not a thing and if I am wrong and it is then ATS has gone full-on state-propaganda.

THAT is why I say hack.

You asked...

You didnt get hacked by the Russians bro, your arguments were garbage.

So you think Pelosi has the votes to subpoena anyone at this point?

Get back to the point of your thread instead of taking the Russian way out

Lolz🤪

The most important thing to take from this is that no reason has been given for this block. No legal reason, no actual reason. Trump was asked and the State Department was asked for a reason and nobody has provided a legal reason for this so far.

Any attorney worth his salt would know that in an absence of a legal reason for an action, the implication is the act was done illegally and with premeditation.

It will be very interesting to see where this goes, but there is no way to look at this as a good thing or heading in the right direction. That would be a clear sign of delusion.

Clearest act of Obstruction of Justice we've seen so far, given their refusal to explain literally ANYTHING.

originally posted by: underwerks
a reply to: proximo

This is not a legitimate inquiry - it is a closed door kangaroo court designed for media consumption.

A closed door court where media isn't allowed is just about media consumption....

Yeah ok.

Lmao

Yes it is - Schiff practically spends as much time on MSNBC as he does in congress. The treasonous liar will tell them whatever he thinks will best sell the story. It does not matter if there is any truth whatsoever because it is closed door.

a reply to: proximo

Are Democrats the only ones taking part in this closed door hearing?

a reply to: Oraculi

Until they have a vote, do they have a legal right to compel the ambassador to testify? Or are they just not getting what they want? Trump's reason was in the first response to the OP.

a reply to: underpass61

There is nothing in the US Constitution or House rules that stipulates that the entire House of Representatives needs to vote to approve any committees' inquiries, even in impeachments. The President doesn't write House rules or dictate House rules to the Speaker of the House.

Trump's defense is to mock the authority of the House of Representatives, and taunt them into a preemptive vote, whether or not to allow committees to do their prospective inquiries. He knows that if that were to happen, the House has the votes to continue, but then he would have names of House reps to blackmail and defame. That's the same reason he wants the whistle blowers exposed.

The Speaker is aware of Trump's plan of attack, and is refusing to submit to his demands.

originally posted by: underpass61
a reply to: Oraculi

Until they have a vote, do they have a legal right to compel the ambassador to testify?

Vote has nothing to do with it.

A) Subpoena (they immediately said they would do this, this AM)
B) File a Contempt Complaint for failure to respond to a Congressional Subpoena (Contempt of Congressional Subpoena is considered a Criminal Complaint)
C) The Complaint is referred to, ahem, DOJ for enforcement of the Subpoena

"C" is why you hear them explaining refusal to submit to Subpoenas is included in evidence supporting articles of impeachment "Obstruction of Congress" and "Obstruction of Justice" (this happened with Nixon as well)

Because Bill Barr (AG) will tell DOJ not to enforce congressional Subpoenas that might involve the President.

Shortest path to getting someone to comply when the AG (who actually enforces congressional Subpoenas) is corrupt, is to simply itemize the refusal as Obstruction in proposed articles of impeachment. (As they did with Nixon)

Longer path is the courts. Dems can ask the courts to intervene since Bill Barr (AG) is involved originally having told the IG to not share the Whistle-Blower complaint with anyone.

The courts historically have sided with over-sight in impeachment proceedings over claims of executive privilege, but that takes time, as in months to a year plus.

Unless Dems find a legal fast-track around Bill Barr, their Subpoena is evidence of obstruction, but not enforceable near-term with Bill Barr being tasked with enforcement.

originally posted by: Scepticaldem


You didnt get hacked by the Russians bro

No, but ATS did. Someone was/has been/or continues to be adding or removing flags on threads.
This can move an OP to the front page and make it most visible and promoted or it can bury an OP to obscurity.

I have image captures and another poster posted the same in thread.
I started with 1 flag, then two, then 1 flag, then zero, then -1.

It would not have been noticed if they didn't accidentally go into negative numbers which is impossible.

So you think Pelosi has the votes to subpoena anyone at this point?

Votes have nothing to do with it.

Every Congressional Committee both Senate and House can Subpoena folks and material.
The only thing an "Impeachment Inquiry" does is
A) highlight the subpoena for the courts if it gets there. The Courts treat Subpoena's under and impeachment proceedings as constitutional question. SCOTUS ruled under Nixon that exec Privilege can not be shelter for corrupt activity.
B) refusals can be considered as evidence of obstruction in articles of impeachment.

originally posted by: underpass61
a reply to: Oraculi

Until they have a vote, do they have a legal right to compel the ambassador to testify?

Yes. A legal right to compel.

Enforced by AG Bill Barr, who is the world's greatest advocate of the "Unitary Executive" theory and has successfully shielded Presidents of the past from Iraq-gate and the Iran-Contra affair. The past strategy has been aggressive obstruction of investigations followed by expansive pardons of those eventually forced to testify.

originally posted by: Sookiechacha
a reply to: underpass61

The Speaker is aware of Trump's plan of attack, and is refusing to submit to his demands.

If you are going with cause and effect, wouldn't this sentence be completely bass ackwards?
It's clear Trump is aware of the Speaker's plan of attack, and is refusing to submit to his demands. If that's obstruction then you guys should be happy - you've almost got him!

sucks to be dems trying to impeach it sounds like you are saying Extorris

is that infact what you are saying???

because when this goes before the SCOTUS, they first thing SCOTUS does is look for that which cam before.

Do you know what has come before?

Did the Democrats do what was done before?

this is futile and YOU just admitted it, why continue?

why not work FOR AMERICA instead of their DNC ego?

originally posted by: Oraculi
The most important thing to take from this is that no reason has been given for this block. No legal reason, no actual reason.

The right wing doesn't care anymore.

Used to be about Transparency, now they will defend to the death a President's right to hide incriminating evidence.
Transparency?
Ditto Corruption.
Ditto Family values.
Ditto the Deficit.
And a dozen other platform values that became roadkill in the race to embrace the ends justifies everything.

Trump definitely figured them out and is full on riding that identity politics vulnerability all the way to the bank.