OP/ED: Bushkrieg: Shock and Awe in America

Originally posted by Kidfinger

Originally posted by LazarusTheLong

I am announcing my candidacy for president of the USA in 2008...
my first course of action will be to establish an anti BS department... to sort thru the garbage that the last 8 administrations have heaped on us...

You just got my vote

Mine too.

Looking forward to seeing the rest of your platform.

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It's always the same attacks when someone Whines,[ and yes I'm a whinner,] about something happening in this country that just isn't fair. The same three or four attack dogs keep rewriting their same right wing script for how untrue,[ no matter what rights get stepped-on, or what group gets diminished,] our whinning is. There are a couple in this camp that have real disagreement and I respect their right to disagree. But to those who'd rather see our cries as irrelevant, in a society that is steamrolling with uncompromisable change, I say there is a majority out here finally catching on, and we will only cry louder--while you only get more, obviously vile.

Originally posted by kazi
It's always the same attacks when someone Whines,[ and yes I'm a whinner,] about something happening in this country that just isn't fair. The same three or four attack dogs keep rewriting their same right wing script for how untrue,[ no matter what rights get stepped-on, or what group gets diminished,] our whinning is.

Happens. ...Sometimes to redirect, sometimes to suppress. Gets old, I know.

There are a couple in this camp that have real disagreement and I respect their right to disagree. But to those who'd rather see our cries as irrelevant, in a society that is steamrolling with uncompromisable change, I say there is a majority out here finally catching on, and we will only cry louder--while you only get more, obviously vile.

IMO - true disagreement results in discussion - and both sides of the argument learn more. OTH - suppression and manipulation squash discussion, and prevent articulation, explanation and the sharing of information.

It's a good rule to use in judging the value - and motive - of a post.


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More alarming news???

--------------------------------------------

Growing fears credit boom may implode
By Dan Roberts and David Wighton in New York and Peter Thal Larsen in London
Published: March 13 2005 21:42 | Last updated: March 13 2005 21:42


Bankruptcy advisers are hiring extra staff amid fears that an end to the global credit boom could spark a surge in business failures in the US and Europe.


Unusually loose lending conditions have encouraged record borrowing by speculative-grade companies, with leveraged buy-outs and debt refinancing on both sides of the Atlantic generating more than $100bn of deals in the past eight months.

But last week's fall in the price of US Treasury bonds, coinciding with signs that bankers are struggling to complete riskier corporate bond issues, has added to a sense of nervousness in some quarters.

Although corporate default rates remain low, some fear the legacy of recent private equity buy-outs and hedge fund investments in distressed debt will be a swath of over-leveraged companies ill-equipped to survive in less benign conditions.

news.ft.com...
--------------------------------------------------------------



hey, now that's they way to create new jobs!!!!!!

so, if we the people don't have the money, and the business and coorporate world doesn't have it......just where is it???
the government certainly doesn't have it!!!

where else could it have gone but into that pockets of a few "worthy employees.".....


[edit on 14-3-2005 by dawnstar]

i have a solution-

other than whining- actually-

Vote the ''c'ers OUT in 2006

Yes, that's right- actually support anyone who is not an incumbant- democrat or republican or third

vote every single one of 'em out

Then, let the whining proceed on a new basis-

Originally posted by accountability
i have a solution-

other than whining- actually-

Vote the ''c'ers OUT in 2006

Yes, that's right- actually support anyone who is not an incumbant- democrat or republican or third

vote every single one of 'em out

Then, let the whining proceed on a new basis-

Ahh, another voice in the wilderness.

Existing guys= no good, wham

New guys= kind of good, bump

Some new guys, some old guys= good, keep them awhile


No one is asking for perfection, just accountability (where did I see that word?) and sanity.
.
.

Once again, incredibly late to the party, but Sofi manages to post on the subjects that I wanted to discuss when I joined ATS. Maybe one day I'll have enough confidence to beat Sofi to the punch, but anyway. I noticed that, while the Patriot Act (is this some kind of misnomer... like Operation Iraqi Freedom [previously named Operation Infinite Justice [Ha!]]?)
Check it out:
"...SEC. 217. INTERCEPTION OF COMPUTER TRESPASSER COMMUNICATIONS.
Chapter 119 of title 18, United States Code, is amended--

(1) in section 2510--
(A) in paragraph (18), by striking `and' at the end;
(B) in paragraph (19), by striking the period and inserting a semicolon; and
(C) by inserting after paragraph (19) the following:
`(20) `protected computer' has the meaning set forth in section 1030; and
`(21) `computer trespasser'--
`(A) means a person who accesses a protected computer without authorization and thus has no reasonable expectation of privacy in any communication transmitted to, through, or from the protected computer; and
`(B) does not include a person known by the owner or operator of the protected computer to have an existing contractual relationship with the owner or operator of the protected computer for access to all or part of the protected computer.'; and
(2) in section 2511(2), by inserting at the end the following:
`(i) It shall not be unlawful under this chapter for a person acting under color of law to intercept the wire or electronic communications of a computer trespasser transmitted to, through, or from the protected computer, if--

`(I) the owner or operator of the protected computer authorizes the interception of the computer trespasser's communications on the protected computer;
`(II) the person acting under color of law is lawfully engaged in an investigation;
`(III) the person acting under color of law has reasonable grounds to believe that the contents of the computer trespasser's communications will be relevant to the investigation; and
`(IV) such interception does not acquire communications other than those transmitted to or from the computer trespasser.'.
SEC. 218. FOREIGN INTELLIGENCE INFORMATION.
Sections 104(a)(7)(B) and section 303(a)(7)(B) (50 U.S.C. 1804(a)(7)(B) and 1823(a)(7)(B)) of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act of 1978 are each amended by striking `the purpose' and inserting `a significant purpose'.

SEC. 219. SINGLE-JURISDICTION SEARCH WARRANTS FOR TERRORISM.
Rule 41(a) of the Federal Rules of Criminal Procedure is amended by inserting after `executed' the following: `and (3) in an investigation of domestic terrorism or international terrorism (as defined in section 2331 of title 18, United States Code), by a Federal magistrate judge in any district in which activities related to the terrorism may have occurred, for a search of property or for a person within or outside the district'.

SEC. 220. NATIONWIDE SERVICE OF SEARCH WARRANTS FOR ELECTRONIC EVIDENCE.
(a) IN GENERAL- Chapter 121 of title 18, United States Code, is amended--

(1) in section 2703, by striking `under the Federal Rules of Criminal Procedure' every place it appears and inserting `using the procedures described in the Federal Rules of Criminal Procedure by a court with jurisdiction over the offense under investigation'; and
(2) in section 2711--
(A) in paragraph (1), by striking `and';
(B) in paragraph (2), by striking the period and inserting `; and'; and
(C) by inserting at the end the following:
`(3) the term `court of competent jurisdiction' has the meaning assigned by section 3127, and includes any Federal court within that definition, without geographic limitation.'.
(b) CONFORMING AMENDMENT- Section 2703(d) of title 18, United States Code, is amended by striking `described in section 3127(2)(A)'. ..."

Yeah, niether the Senate and Congress read it either. Just about as patriotic as Mein Kampf. Just so you know, hours before it was passed, John Ashcroft had just finished revising it basically taking out the few protections that had been left in it. Congress thought they were voting on the other version... sounds like a terrible scandal, but it went virtually un-noticed.

I can't blame congress, reading this thing is only humanly possible with an adavanced degree in law, and hours and hours in the library. I dare anyone to read this law in its entirety and send me a point by point summary. The act is 342 pages long and refers to hundreds of other passages in other laws written over the past 150 years or so. I wouldn't be surprised if it reamends some segregation law that I'm breaking by living in Inglewood.

Also, a fun fact. USA PARTRIOT Act stands for "Uniting and Strengthening America by Providing Appropriate Tools Required to Intercept and Obstruct Terrorism Act of 2001" Man, do they feed the letters into a computer or something to find out how to make it a viable acronym?

I can give you some points in the act that most of us would disagree with. The fourth amendment. What ammendment? "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized." I hate it when we're given a right by the government (who, in a democracy, theoretically us the citizens) only to have it taken away by as soon as it becomes a nuisance. The fourth amendment was what made it so that, if any government agency wishes to search your house, vehicle, or property, they had to get your permission or a warrant from a judge (this also worked wonders to battle planted evidence). Did you like the fourth amendment? Too bad, you don't have it anymore.

I'd be doing Jefferson a disservice (not that I owe that old loon any favors) if I didn't say something to the effect of: when you allow your rulers to snoop into your private life and violate your space, the very idea of living in a free society is out the window. Michael Moore, you can be an idiot sometimes, but you were right to fight the man in this instance... even with your lack of finesse.

Did you know that the FBI is now REQUIRED to collect ALL library records dating back to 1989 (where possible) and all records since? Did you know that there's a GAG ORDER so that agents can't talk to anyone about their findings under the pain of prosecution?

I'm left with two possibilities why this feeble, spiteful, conniving, dullard is still our president.
1. The people didn't know what the patriot act was and figured that since it's called "The US Patriot Act" that it had something to do with fighting terrorists or giving freedom, not taking it or
2. It is natural for people for people to be afraid of freedom at some primal level... like agoraphobia (at least I THINK that's the one where people are afraid of wide open spaces).

I mean, to know what this law is, and to still vote for Bush over Kerry is an incredible notion. Ok, so Kerry was a "flip-flopper". He was charged with changing his opinion on things depending on what the public wanted. Heaven forbid that one of our leaders actually works in the interest of the people! Maybe he wasn't quite the hero he told us he was in Vietnam? I don't care. I wasn't born yet. Are we forgetting what Bush did during Vietnam? (And just so you know, a forged military memo that has true information but has diliberate mistakes is highly questionable... YOU KNOW what I'm talking about ;-/ )

I have a friend in Texas (and a big Bush supporter). She a really smart girl, much smarter than I (like that's saying much) and I told her about what the patriot act was all about before the 2004 election. She said "I've heard about that law, but I don't think that's what it does. It's to help us find terrorists". Heaven help us, yes! It's to help us find terrorists. At a huge cost! Why not just make us a militant country that's always under Martial Law (oh... wait) that way no one can get hurt... ever!

The bin Ladens have had business relations with the Bush family on and off for over 26 years now. Actually, I think it's the entire royal Saudi family... In the five days following 9-11, the only planes that were flying were the ones picking up and shipping out the bin Laden family to and from secret locations. In the days after 9-11, the FBI ran some searches on gun purchases by suspected terrorists. Two of them showed up in the database with recent purchases. When Ashcroft heard about this, he immediately shut down the search saying that these background check weren't meant to be used in this manner... the searches are only for law-abiding gun crazy Americans... this is the same guy who took a red marker to the Fourth Amendment! At least I still have my Second Amendment... I should really go out and get a gun while I still can.

Have any of you seen the footage of George W. in that classroom in Florida when the secret service ran up to him and told him the first tower got hit? I did... it was disturbing. He kinda just sat there... for seven minutes until someone told him to get up and be the president.

Oh, here's a list of my favorite lies.
1. Iraq has nuclear weapons.
I've read the "intelligence" on this. It's not very intelligent. Joseph Wilson went on the mission with the CIA to Niger in 2002. He came back and told the president himself that the information was bad.

2. I raq has chemical and biological weapons.
They did... we've found about one half of 1% of these weapons that were promised to us. Did you know that they had these few weapons because we gave them to Sadaam? Oh, but that was back when he was our friend and letting us run some oil companies in Iraq... such is the American way.

3. Iraq has ties to al Queda.
This is weird. al Queda hated Sadaam more than they hate America...

4. We went to war with a coalition...
Of AUSTRALIA! Amazing! How many Australians have died in Iraq under combat situations? Really? None? (New Zealand refused to join the coalition and were promptly shut out of trade talks.

Azerbaijan. Who? They have oil.

Bulgaria! How could we lose?

Columbia! I thought we were still at war with them?

Czech Republic... enjoying their new position in NATO by now.

Denmark- I got really stoned in Denmark once.

El Salvador! Who was the last El Salvadorian to be taken hostage in Iraq? I bet it was that guy who faked the golden ticket in Willy Wonka.

Eritrea- That's not a country, that's a bad scrabble hand.

Estonia- Nazis to save the day!

Etheopia- We'll make a human shield out of staving children! Brilliant!

Georgia- I've been to Atlanta but somehow I don't think this is the same place.

Hungary... I have nothing to say to you Hungary other than: You should be ashamed of yourself!

Japan- I bet most of THEM don't know that... shhh.

South Korea- Ok, but they owed us one anyway.

Latvia- More Nazis!

Lithuania- ""

Macedonia- Again, not a geography whizz, but I'll take your word for it.

Netherlands- I got REALLY high here... twice!

Nicaragua- I just LOVE central America... the countries are SO small and cute!

Philippines- Yeah, but I heard that it was to help them recruit more al Qaeda members)

Poland- You're all going to hell. I heard the pope say the war was wrong with my very own good ear.

Palau- I, uh... hang on. Ok, I found you... Ok, guys pull out a globe and a magnifying glass. These guys are a group of North Pacific Islands with a combined population of less than 20,000.

And then, we have the support of some great countries who never sent anyone to fight in Iraq (due to lack of military), last but not least Iceland, Costa Rica, the Marshall and Solomon Islands and Micronesia!

It's no wonder we won.


Are you really afraid of terrorists? Why did SOMEONE forget to catch bin Laden... we got all tied up with this UNRELATED Iraq thingy and now we just try to catch all the terrorists at the airport.

You guys were talking statistics earlier in this thread. Are we at the top 3% now? How about this we, the US, 5% of the worlds population use 25% of the world's energy. My computer's been on for two days... it's my fault.

Let's see, what haven't I covered? Hell, I'll do it later, I need to go to bed.
-S
PS- Oh yeah. If any of you demand sources, I'll gladly post them. I just can't do it right now because I think I've just developed a severe case of carpal tunnle syndrome.

[edit on 22-3-2005 by ServoHahn]

I apologise. That was waay outta line.
I can't handle too much excitment.
I come from a broken home...
I uh... just failed an anatomy test?
I'm out of excuses.
-S

Wow (to say the least). What a rant (Servo). I will never leave home anymore after reading that. I am so afraid

The Act itself bothers me. What bothers me even more is that it was signed into law and is being changed constantly A little nip here, a tuck there. This bad-boy will be with us a long time.

Who supports it? Who publicly is against it? Is it possible these two are tied or allies in some way? With a new Attorney General and some new federal judges what happens in the future?

Lots of possibilities in all this.

Originally posted by JoeDoaks

Who supports it? Who publicly is against it? Is it possible these two are tied or allies in some way? With a new Attorney General and some new federal judges what happens in the future?

Lots of possibilities in all this.

Check out this article. A Guide to the Patriot Act
-S

Originally posted by ServoHahn

Check out this article. A Guide to the Patriot Act
-S

Great link S. Thanks.

This article and the terms of the Patriot Act should be read by Americans AND Canadians. ...It's a good guide to what our corporate handlers have in store for us.

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Originally posted by ServoHahn

2. It is natural for people for people to be afraid of freedom at some primal level... like agoraphobia (at least I THINK that's the one where people are afraid of wide open spaces).

i think you're onto to something. "RANT"(ATS guy) calls it 'appeal to authority'.
i like that, but also call it 'i miss being under mama's wing', or, 'grade me, evaluate me, ...PLEASE, TELL ME WHERE I BELONG?!'.

Omigawd - I can't believe I didn't include dismantling of the Constitution in this list!

Listen here:

Dissolving Democracy: What is Democracy?

Let me provide a big picture overview on some simple terms for those who wish to understand this situation a little better but might be confused......

A public corporation in today's world is guided by its corporate charter.....(its own consitution so to speak)..........that constitution underlines the goal of the corporation to maximize shareholder (owner's) value by maximizing profits............in the process of doing this a corporation will externalize costs (put them on others) where ever and when ever possible......

In 1889 corporations where given the same rights as US citizens under amendments 4 and 14................this in effect has provided protection and privacy rights to a nonliving entity that's sole purpose of functioning is to maximize profits and replicate that process for as long as possible........

Because of the corporations charter and their rights given to them in 1889 corporations are expanding their profit directives beyond US borders and externalizing their costs in the 3rd world without the restrictions of governments.

They have accomplished this by influencing politicians through campaign contributions and heavy lobbying in Wash...........as a result, we are no long on the gold standard so we can print as much money as we want in a free trade environmment which as created the deficit we have.......we no longer have any form of a protected or fair trade balance as everything is now free trade............we have been able to manipulate other countries by creating a debt laden infrastructure investment program through the IMF and World Bank (mostly owned by US) that allows us to manipulate their human resources and environment to the use of corporations.................we are able to outsource production and services to cheap or slave labor overseas and immigrate the same cheap labor in our country (so that's why are borders are not closed)............

The corporation as it is currently set up has no accountablity or control by either its shareholders or its board of directors or it's C-level executives........because anyone that attempts to maintain a responsible stance in the corporations accountablity to government, environmental or civic duties would be in direct conflict to the corporation's charter of maximizing profits and exturnalizing costs........yes you will see some PR from corporations saying otherwise........but never to point where it affects their bottom line.......

And all this profit process is further amplified to detriment of society by focused on short term goals in order to fullfill the role of quarterly profit targets of the financial markets...........

Corporations are replacing the local business and community social fabric...........replacing the checks and balances of our democratic process through the republic that our founding fathers constructed.............and in the process they are compromising our national security as well.................

The solution to this problem is to create a balance of government, economic, civic and corporate roles within society where a maximized profit is a fair profit that hold accountablity to our national security, natural environment and the social fabric of our communities...........

We had a system close to this from the end of WW2 up until Nixon took us off the gold standard and visited China as a potential opening to free trade markets in the future.....

.....since then, corporations have been growing in their size and rights of omipresence over our society as our government has increasingly become puppets to their demands......

.......the citizens of the US has become removed from the community and is looked at as a comsumer commodity striped of value beyond what they can consume and accquire as a measure of success regardless of the debt they incurr as a result of this corporate marketing and philosophy........

.....corporations want you to purchase items that you often do not need at over inflated prices that benefit no one other than the elite within their ranks.......(does you child need $150 sneakers?.......or has TV told them and their peers it is a must??...............do you need that big hunking SUV if you don't pull a boat, never take it off roading.........and drive around in it mostly empty??)

We are constantly told in America that we are valued by how much money or things we own.....how good we look, etc..............our is a society becoming all style and no substance.........how many kids today learn to master a musical instrument compared to playing video games?.........how many kids today would rather read a book than watch junk on TV?)

Do you know that marketing firms of corporate advertising on TV refer to children only as "evolving consumers"???

Now realize this..................communism is a failed system it doesn't work.................socialism is a failed system too...............our democratic process as a republic and the free enterprise system can work.............if it formulates a series of checks and balances between our governement, economy and civic well being.............

A middle ground must be found.......

Educate yourself on this subject and be an informed citizen.........

Read a great book on the subject.........

"When corporations rule the world" - written by David Korten

Hope this helps........

Some more fodder for the cannons!


Checkout the links on this page:


politics.abovetopsecret.com...

Today's headlines talk about how Rumsfeld and Bush are comparing the "terrorists" to Nazi and communist fascists - and say they are protecting the world from fascism.



Did I miss something?

The government didnt sell the country to business, they sold them the protection of the US government. Thats the real issue. You are so pro capitalist and pro capitalism that you dont see that the US government is "creating oppertunities" for business, they are protecting the businesses from...well...you. Selling protection out like the mafia. Are you surprised though? I mean since some politicians came up financially with such criminals using such tactics.

Whats funny is every person out there saying "we can talk it out". I believe that too, but dont think Im not cocking back the pistol under the table. Keep those guns clean, because at least our founding father knew after talking something else must come. Now Im all for peaceful means, but Ill be damned if I let the country go because some people are too lazy to take things back peacefully.

Use every resource, every tactic, before you use violence. But dont fall for the BS mindset america is giving. That violence and such is morally wrong and evil. They want you to believe that its wrong, because they want to make it a taboo. Its your right as an american, but the government wants you to believe its wrong.

when the fuse is lit and the talking become silence, what are you going to choose to do? Big business isnt the problem, government is. The only thing more powerful then the biggest business around is the government capable of destroying it with a single gathering of its officials. I gave sofi a WATS, not so much for the accuracy of it, but rather the concept and awareness of it. To anounce it and make it avalible to debate. Whether sofi is for or against big business is not my issue here. My issue is the actions my government is commiting.

The best government is one that governs the least.

The more numerous the laws, the more corrupt the government.

The most common way people give up their power is by thinking they don't have any.

all quotes we should remember. Take responsiblity.

O one other thing. I hate when the US is called a democracy, democracy is a failed system. Republic with a very small government was suppose to be the vision. I guess brainwashing people into believing democracy is god worked.

Another quote for you:
A democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where fifty-one percent of the people may take away the rights of the other forty-nine.

Originally posted by grimreaper797
Another quote for you:
A democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where fifty-one percent of the people may take away the rights of the other forty-nine.

This one is good too.

People have the government they desserve.

There's some really good stuff here, and I'm glad to see that this conversation hasn't stopped. Even if you don't believe the Bush-related stuff, you'd better take a minute to look at the fine print in that legislation that's coming down the pipe.

The problems we face now have been with us for quite some time, in one smaller form or another. The overall trend that has made all of this possible has been underway for the better part of a century. Perhaps even longer. I don't think it's an accident that when you compare most of the theories you'll see on ATS...that...you find so very many common factors.

We may all see the coming troubles from different angles, but the fact remains that we do see them.