What Happened to God?

a reply to: midicon

That's alright. I didn't expect you to understand what it means to have your heart right with God.

originally posted by: Deetermined
a reply to: midicon

That's alright. I didn't expect you to understand what it means to have your heart right with God.

I know exactly what you mean.

a reply to: midicon

Maybe you're not understanding what I'm saying. Anyone who follows a doctrine to a point where they cut off family members for life for leaving the religion, do not have their hearts right with God.

originally posted by: EdgeofParadise
For thousands of years people have been religiously inclined. Making thousands, no, millions of gods to whom they gave their adoration. In recent times, secularism and materialism has taken hold in many countries, and now more than ever people consider themselves nonreligious, either not belonging to a religion, many for good reasons, or they do not believe in God. Is that your view?

As soon as somebody can define "God" for me in a way that isn't inherently contradictory or internally logically inconsistent, maybe I'll take a listen. But I've lived a long time, and all I get from the God worshipers is a kind of vague description of some Old Grandpa Who Lives in the Clouds and Loves Us and Watches Over Us nonsense they were taught when they were ignorant children. Oh, yeah, he also looks like us. The supernatural, transtemporal, omnipotent, omnipresent superbeing looks like us. Sure he does.

So do your best. See what you can come up with. But if you can't define it, then you gotta ask yourself why you should believe in it -- whatever it is.

originally posted by: Deetermined
a reply to: midicon

Maybe you're not understanding what I'm saying. Anyone who follows a doctrine to a point where they cut off family members for life for leaving the religion, do not have their hearts right with God.

I understand only too well. That's why I said I know exactly what you mean. Doesn't mean I necessarily agree with you but I understand your point.

originally posted by: Deetermined
a reply to: midicon

Maybe you're not understanding what I'm saying. Anyone who follows a doctrine to a point where they cut off family members for life for leaving the religion, do not have their hearts right with God.

That's funny, because Jesus encouraged his disciples to do that very thing.

a reply to: Blue Shift

While disciples may have left their families to spread the gospel of the kingdom throughout the world, Jesus never told them to forsake their families forever or to never speak to them again. The disciples still provided for their families while they were gone.

originally posted by: Deetermined
a reply to: Blue Shift

While disciples may have left their families to spread the gospel of the kingdom throughout the world, Jesus never told them to forsake their families forever or to never speak to them again. The disciples still provided for their families while they were gone.

That maybe true of some disciples but there are many quotes from Jesus in the bible on divided families. Keep in mind that Jesus knew in advance the great persecution his followers would endure after his crucifixtion.
www.openbible.info...

a reply to: Sheye

While Jesus said that there would be division, He didn't say that the division would be caused by his followers abandoning their families. Now, if the family that was left behind wanted to cut off all contact with the disciple, that was their decision to make, but the disciples weren't the ones making that decision for their families. Remember, Jesus told his disciples that the only just cause for divorce was infidelity.

a reply to: EdgeofParadise

I have wondered about this at times.

Why has God been with his people through the desert and after while in Israel where all of his people could see him (as the flame) but none in numbers have seen anything like it in the past 2000+ years. There were prophets throughout the ages, almost continuously but we haven't seen that since Jesus, that I know of. Why such a wide gap in years?

Creation and all in it is almost 6000 years yet for the last 2000 everything spitually has been silent and even often deadly.

Perhaps the interlude before the main event? Perhaps the curious silence before the Oooohs and Aaaaahs of the big fireworks display?


So many questions - So many cans of worms.


Still, I feel that I've seen enough and experienced enough in my lifetime to believe in God.

originally posted by: Deetermined
a reply to: Blue Shift
While disciples may have left their families to spread the gospel of the kingdom throughout the world, Jesus never told them to forsake their families forever or to never speak to them again. The disciples still provided for their families while they were gone.

Matthew 12:46-50
46 While Jesus was still talking to the crowd, his mother and brothers stood outside, wanting to speak to him. 47 Someone told him, “Your mother and brothers are standing outside, wanting to speak to you.”

48 He replied to him, “Who is my mother, and who are my brothers?” 49 Pointing to his disciples, he said, “Here are my mother and my brothers. 50 For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother.”

a reply to: Deetermined

While Jesus said that there would be division, He didn't say that the division would be caused by his followers abandoning their families.

Then what do these words mean ?

Mathew 10:35-37
For I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law. And a person's enemies will be those of his own household. Whoever loves father or mother more than me is not worthy of me, and whoever loves son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.

Also this ..

Luke 12 :51-53

Do you think that I have come to give peace on earth? No, I tell you, but rather division. For from now on in one house there will be five divided, three against two and two against three. They will be divided, father against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against mother, mother-in-law against her daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against mother-in-law.”

a reply to: StallionDuck

How many women and children have been raped, killed and tortured over the millennia?
How many men butchered, sliced and diced... and bombed and shot over the millennia?
How many people killed by Tsunamis, Earthquakes and volcanos over the millennia?
How many die through disease and pestilence over the millennia?
How many killed and maimed through endless war over the millennia?
How many tears shed and prayers said over the millennia?
How many hungry, desperate, suffering souls over the millennia?

Yes, where is God?

a reply to: midicon
Why blame God for human choices. It is humans who rape and cause wars, not God. God gave free will, and though at times he does intervene, especially when answering pure prayer from a grace filled soul, He does not come in and save humanity from sinful choices of humans.

a reply to: Sheye

I didn't blame God for anything. I was just asking where he was.

But thank God you cleared that up. Are you his secretary?

originally posted by: midicon
a reply to: Sheye

I didn't blame God for anything. I was just asking where he was.

But thank God you cleared that up. Are you his secretary?

HaHa ..Just trying my best to explain the difference between a perhaps non existent God and a God who has allowed mankind to suffer consequences of the sins of others.

I do get where you are coming from and I have asked the same questions multiple times. Even the circle of life concept of living things eating other living things confuses me. Did our creator get off on watching animals suffer as they preyed on each other ? It’s all very confusing and has shaken my faith in a loving God.

If it weren’t for the many miracles through the Holy Spirit and the lives of great mystics like Saint Pio from Italy, I doubt I would be a believer.

a reply to: Sheye
It's great you have a sense of humour!

a reply to: midicon

*shrugs*

Man was given free will. If mankind wasn't allowed to do what they wanted, then that wouldn't be free will.

Though diseases and maladies I can't understand. Free will, I do understand more so.

a reply to: StallionDuck

The victims had free will too.

originally posted by: Sheye
a reply to: Deetermined

While Jesus said that there would be division, He didn't say that the division would be caused by his followers abandoning their families.

Then what do these words mean ?

Mathew 10:35-37
For I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law. And a person's enemies will be those of his own household. Whoever loves father or mother more than me is not worthy of me, and whoever loves son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.

Also this ..

Luke 12 :51-53

Do you think that I have come to give peace on earth? No, I tell you, but rather division. For from now on in one house there will be five divided, three against two and two against three. They will be divided, father against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against mother, mother-in-law against her daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against mother-in-law.”

Maybe these verses will help you to understand what I'm talking about. Those who come to "the knowledge of the truth" won't have these problems as long as all of them are believers. Unfortunately, most people don't turn to God until their lives are filled with trouble, chaos and/or division and they need help. We're to call on Jesus for that help.

2 Timothy 3:3-7

3 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.

2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,

3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,

4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;

5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.

6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,

7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.