Transcript released - WH - No quid pro quo

a reply to: TheRedneck

You provoke an interesting paradox. Often those who scream the loudest at someone else's minor infractions are guilty of the same thing or much worse.

Perhaps Pelosi also has something to hide, hence the deflection to Trump.

originally posted by: shooterbrody
a reply to: Gorgonite

Trump clearly directs the Ukrainian President to work with his personal attorney to investigate Biden.

that is a lie

The Trump admin has feed you so many lies that you can’t differentiate lies from the truth anymore.

that is just awesome
the only thing true is what you are selling

wow

Gotcha, you’re one of those Trump supporters.

So, the transcript literally shows Trump directing Zelensky to work with Rudy on the Biden and Crowdstrike investigations but you say “that’s a lie”.

You’re one of those very useful naive folks who will reject what they see with their eyes and ears for the story spun by Trump. You really need to self reflect on what you stand for. You are bending yourself over backwards to protect the interests of Trump. You don’t stand for anything of value, just whatever protects Trump and his interests.

That is sad. I honestly feel bad for you. I know you aren’t capable of understanding why this is sad, but maybe one day you will realize you were manipulated like a puppet.

Do you realize you are defending illegal behavior because why? Because you like Trump? So shallow, so hollow.

Do you stand for truth? No, Trump has lied his entire presidency and multiple times about this issue, yet you still trust him.

What are your values?

originally posted by: Gorgonite

originally posted by: Mach2

originally posted by: Bone75
Trump thinks he's slick. He reminded the guy 3 times in one paragraph about how much the US does for them, you know... wink wink. But because he didn't come right out and say "do this or we'll stop being good to you", he gets a pass. You guys think he wears a freaking halo and that scares me.

I hate to pop your cherry, but that's the way "diplomacy" has been done for 1000 yrs, if not longer.

Last time I checked diplomacy has never involved using the office of the presidency to coerce a foreign government to investigate a political rival and hand that info over to his personal attorney. Obtaining anything of value from a foreign government for the purposes of a campaign is illegal.

Why are you defending someone who is attempting to put themselves above the law? Why are you defending a president who has lied about this incident multiple times over the last few days? What do you trust a president who lies on a daily basis? On what foundation have you built your trust for this president?

Ummm...why do you continue to lie...does it give you a thrill up your leg...?

Where's the coercion...I'm sure you can point to it on the doll...

None of this is for the purpose of a campaign either...it's the chief law enforcement officer of one country having a conversation with his counterpart in another country about possible crimes and corruption...nothing more...





YouSir

originally posted by: Gorgonite

originally posted by: shooterbrody
a reply to: Gorgonite

Trump clearly directs the Ukrainian President to work with his personal attorney to investigate Biden.

that is a lie

The Trump admin has feed you so many lies that you can’t differentiate lies from the truth anymore.

that is just awesome
the only thing true is what you are selling

wow

Gotcha, you’re one of those Trump supporters.

So, the transcript literally shows Trump directing Zelensky to work with Rudy on the Biden and Crowdstrike investigations but you say “that’s a lie”.

You’re one of those very useful naive folks who will reject what they see with their eyes and ears for the story spun by Trump. You really need to self reflect on what you stand for. You are bending yourself over backwards to protect the interests of Trump. You don’t stand for anything of value, just whatever protects Trump and his interests.

That is sad. I honestly feel bad for you. I know you aren’t capable of understanding why this is sad, but maybe one day you will realize you were manipulated like a puppet.

Do you realize you are defending illegal behavior because why? Because you like Trump? So shallow, so hollow.

Do you stand for truth? No, Trump has lied his entire presidency and multiple times about this issue, yet you still trust him.

What are your values?

This is not mud pit. You cannot directly attack another member because you disagree with them. Your arguement is what we call "strawman". A bunch of disconnected facts and opinions to justify your position. I respect your opposition but you have not convinced me that Biden should not be investigated.

originally posted by: shawmanfromny
a reply to: DBCowboy

Well DB, we know Biden's arz is burning right now. His campaign is toast.

Why do you think the Dems suddenly think Elizabeth Warren is so great? Because they know that Biden's chances at getting elected just took a fatal head shot.

a reply to: jrod

To Trump supporters: hypothetically if there is evidence that he did something unconstitutional, illegal, or abused his power; Would you be able to accept that?

Yes, I will.

I will not, however, accept made-up, misrepresented actions well within the President's Constitutional authority as crimes. You have to bring an actual crime. You have to show evidence that Trump did something unconstitutional or illegal. Just making a claim is not enough. Making multiple claims is not enough. As a matter of fact, every single false claim made just makes it harder for me to take the next claim seriously. That is not cultish behavior; it is common sense.

And right about now, the hill you have to climb is getting pretty damn steep. That's not on me; it's on you. I didn't build it.

TheRedneck

a reply to: Agit8dChop

Thank you for sharing, I can even read it from Europe.

The part about Merkel was very interesting, too.

a reply to: drewlander

Honestly, i would like to say that historically I do not perceive you as an independent.

I get that all the time, think of a political group, I've been accused of being with them.... That's how I know I'm an independent because people keep getting it wrong, lol.... But I take no offense to it. I know some people just make those connections and assume it's the case.

To the rest of your questions, I think you simply misread the intent behind what you quoted. I wasn't vindicating Biden, or saying he should win.... Merely, I was saying the left would be better off focusing on their own house and platform to win 2020 rather than gambling they'll get Trump in a huge gotchya, one so big the Americans wouldn't have a choice but to vote for the left, which is as silly as it sounds.

Independents typically care about platform above all. That's what they vote for.

Can we stop releasing diplomatic cables like it's no big deal?

Those things are supposed to be valuable, because they throw innocent people in prison over them.

I'm a little upset, that they unclassify them at the drop of a hat, in the first place.

a reply to: Gothmog

Gothmog vs Gorgonite........sounds like a pay per view.

originally posted by: pavil
a reply to: Gothmog

Gothmog vs Gorgonite........sounds like a pay per view.

Or a pokemon battle.

a reply to: jrod

Perhaps Pelosi also has something to hide, hence the deflection to Trump.

Without having more evidence I can't say she does, of course, but I certainly would not be surprised at this point.

Biden is being thrown under the bus. I'm convinced this is not about Joe or even Hunter Biden; they are minor players in whatever happened, but they are also a link back to whoever is actually being protected. A crack in the armor, if you will. Biden will go down hard... as a matter of fact, I would not be surprised if one of the Bidens didn't end up committing suicide by shooting themselves in the back of the head with a bazooka... multiple times... at long range...

Last week, Trump made a statement (paraphrasing) that despite how bad last week was for the DNC, this week would be worse. I hate to step on Xuenchen's toes here, but it sounds to me like something big is actually brewing this time.

TheRedneck

originally posted by: Mach2

originally posted by: Gorgonite

originally posted by: CriticalStinker

originally posted by: Sookiechacha
a reply to: CriticalStinker

What about in 2016 when some people paid foreign entities for dirt on Trump, which lead to a domestic investigation?

Those we people and PACs, not the President of the Unites using the authority of his position and leveraging military aide in exchange for opposition research.

I didn't see anything that looked like Trump said the aid would be off the table if the Ukrainian president didn't help.

To be clear, simply asking Ukraine to work with his personal attorney is a crime. However, according to the whistleblower complaint, the call isn’t the only piece of the puzzle. So, there very well could be another call or communication.

Please provide a link to the specific statute, because that is ridiculous.

Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.) said Thursday that President Trump was "wrong" to suggest he's open to looking at dirt on a political opponent offered by a foreign government.

"I think that's wrong. That's a mistake," Graham, a frequent defender of the president, said. "I've been consistent on this. If a public official is approached by a foreign government offering anything of value ... the right answer is 'no.'"

thehill.com...

This is what started the Mueller investigation. Accepting anything of value from a foreign government for use your your campaign is illegal. An investigation into your political opponent is a thing of value.

Also to be clear, the president does not have to break a law to be impeached. All that has to be done is for the House to believe he abused his office. Again, I will let Lindsey Graham clarify that point for me.

“You don’t even have to be convicted of a crime to lose your job in this constitutional republic if this body determines that your conduct as a public official is clearly out of bounds in your role,” the politician said. “Impeachment is not about punishment. Impeachment is about cleansing the office. Impeachment is about restoring honor and integrity to the office.”

www.mcclatchydc.com...

Lastly, here is the actual law that states it is illegal to obtain a thing of value from a foreign government.

www.law.cornell.edu...

Here is an article explaining why just a “quid” is illegal. Not needing a “pro quo”.

www.justsecurity.org...

a reply to: jrod

Pelosi knows that they will lose in 2020 so she’s providing an excuse for their loss.

She’s smart.

originally posted by: jrod
a reply to: Gorgonite

I suspect there are a few here that are literally here to be a lackey to Trump. We are truly seeing this machine in action. Then there are many who think he is great and refuse to accept that Trump could have done something illegal/unconstitutional.

I was concerned about the cult like following Obama, but it seems like Trump has taken that to the next level. Anything posted critical to Trump is quickly attacked and the source is quickly written off as a liberal propaganda.

To Trump supporters: hypothetically if there is evidence that he did something unconstitutional, illegal, or abused his power; Would you be able to accept that?

Ummm...dude...really...?

Every single one of us that has ever defended President Trump on this site has stated that if he does something that warrants an investigation...then he should face the music...

Nor do any of us agree with him in every instance...Him bombing Syria because of the white helmet insurgents false claims of gas...pissed me the hell off...And I sent him a letter stating the same...

There are no sycophants here...just reasonably intelligent people seeing through all the fakery and corrupt institutionalizing...

I like the man...he plays the MSM and Democrats...and his opponents like a fiddle...and they always fall for the trap...it's truly astonishing and hilarious to watch...

Love is too strong a word...when he crosses the line...we blast him...





YouSir

a reply to: drewlander

but you have not convinced me that Biden should not be investigated.

I think any politician should be investigated for something there if there is reasonable evidence to justify such inquiries.

However, I don't think it would fare well for Trump politically in the upcoming election if he initiates it. He'd be no better than those who did it to him. The president isn't supposed to have the capacity to just investigate citizens, that's the job of the DOJ and Attorney General. It wouldn't be a good look for him.

If he just let all the information leak out though, like he's doing, it will likely end Biden's run before or at Iowa. Warren has already gained 10% chances of the primary on Biden in the past week because of this.

originally posted by: TheRedneck
This all makes sense now. I thought it would, which is why I kept saying be patient.

Somehow (and I don't have all the gory details because I have better things to do than remember them), Hillary and her little email scam got mixed up in Ukraine. There's information in the Ukraine about the fiasco that happened with the 2016 elections and the fake investigations. Now there's a Ukranian President who wants to root out the corruption in his country, and that includes a lot of damaging info on the DNC.

And Trump is open to it.

This has nothing to do with the 2020 elections. This is all about the 2016 elections. This is about rooting out corruption, both in the Ukraine and in the US. Of course the corrupt actors are going to scream to High Heaven! I find it very interesting that Pelosi is suddenly pushing for impeachment, not willing to wait one single day to read the transcripts for herself. A bit dog hollers first.

While I'm here, let me address the claims that this is not a transcript: this is the official record of the phone call. It was transcribed by a group (not just one person) of people in the Situation Room individually, then the individual transcripts were compared to ensure that errors were caught. That's how it's done. This is the document you were looking for.

There was absolutely no quid pro quo in this call. A quid pro quo is when one leader either offers something needed to another country in exchange for a service from that country, or when a leader withholds something needed from another country unless that country does something in return. Joe Biden admitted to (bragged about) a quid pro quo.

Trump offered nothing in this conversation in exchange for anything else. He requested that the President of Ukraine look into allegations of corruption in his country. If anyone has a problem with that, they have a problem with getting rid of corruption, and are thus supporting corruption. The fact that this corruption in the Ukraine likely leads back to our own country does not change that. The fact that one of the DNC candidates for President participated in corrupt activities previously does not change that. Trump is responsible for Trump; he is not responsible for Biden.

I don't think this is really about Biden anyway... Warren is leading him already, even before this mess. I look at who's screaming the loudest... that would be Pelosi, and surprise! Last night I saw a new clip with Hillary Clinton! She crawled out from under her rock for this. There's your two targets.

The Ukrainian President mentioned his new prosecutor would start in September... this month. I think, based on the panic in the DNC, that some serious information was just relayed to the US that implicates some high players. Good. Expose them all. Trump just proved he is the most transparent President in history (again!)... can we get something similar from the rest of the swamp scum?

Of course not.

If the Democrats impeach on the basis of this, they just lost everything. They'd be better off pulling all ads for 2020 and saving their money. Everyone get ready for the Republican filth to rise to the top now, since the Democrats are about to hand them everything.

TheRedneck

The proverbial, "What goes around comes around", in this case, something so scary that it got Nancy on the podium to screech impeachment.

Honestly, she may have been drinking that day in the office and someone took advantage of that and pressured her.

a reply to: Gorgonite

An investigation into your political opponent is a thing of value.

Not according to the DoJ:

The intelligence community’s inspector general told the acting director of national intelligence that a call between President Donald Trump and Ukraine’s leader could have been a federal campaign finance violation. But the Justice Department determined the president did not commit a crime after prosecutors reviewed a rough transcript of the July 25 call.

Sorry, that's been decided.

TheRedneck

originally posted by: Mach2

originally posted by: Bone75

originally posted by: Mach2

originally posted by: Bone75
Trump thinks he's slick. He reminded the guy 3 times in one paragraph about how much the US does for them, you know... wink wink. But because he didn't come right out and say "do this or we'll stop being good to you", he gets a pass. You guys think he wears a freaking halo and that scares me.

I hate to pop your cherry, but that's the way "diplomacy" has been done for 1000 yrs, if not longer.

So you admit that Trump was putting the squeeze on him, but chose his words carefully to skirt the law?

What specific law? There is no "skirting" the law. Either he broke tne law, or he didn't, and I don't see the evidence here that he did.

If a law is has no clear cut line, and it is open to interpretation, it's not a very good law.

In those circumstances, usually appeals are presented, until the grey area is removed. Sometimes going as far as the SCOTUS.

If you want to make it about pushing the limits of presidential authority, that's fine, but apply the standards, whatever they may be, equally. If you don't like a particular law, then lobby to change it.

At this point, the Dems have cried wolf too many times, when there was no prosecutable offense. Less and less ppl are taking them seriously.

If you want to bring President Trump down, come with facts, and proof, rather than conjecture and wishful thinking.

If the situation isn't a clear violation of the law, Dims should drop it, stop wasting time, and get on with solving the issues that are concerning to average, mainstream Americans.

Oh don't backtrack and play dumb now. You put "diplomacy" in quotes because he's dirty just like the rest of them.

a reply to: Arnie123

Honestly, she may have been drinking that day in the office and someone took advantage of that and pressured her.

Yeah, and life may exist on planet Earth...

TheRedneck