So Desperately Sad but Incredibly Angry

For months I've been of the opinion that Brexit was dead because our Lords and Masters in Parliament had taken it away through their own self interest and Cowardice , then a spark of hope as Boris Johnson became PM with a plan to deliver what the Majority had asked for ... now that hope is lost.

The treacherous , antidemocratic remainers in Parliament have seized control of Parliament bypassing the government and thwarting any effort to deliver a meaningful Brexit .... and people said this wasn't a COUP ! ....HA.

As the title says I am desperately Sad but Incredibly Angry , I know I'm not alone but what the hell can we do about it , we are but slaves paying disproportionate amounts of tax so they can live it up on their more than generous salaries while flicking two fingers at Democracy and the will of the people , we are slaves with NO say over what happens to OUR country and to be honest I'm bloody sick of it.

For me Democracy in the UK died yesterday , the Labour party and Speaker of the House are a disgrace and every MP who took part in this should be ashamed of themselves and history will record their duplicitous antidemocratic actions , what a pathetic rabble they've shown themselves to be.

It's over , we lost.

a reply to: gortex

What happened?

Nothing again?

Edit, had a quick read,, It still looks the same, The UK wants all the benefits of EU and none of the weight.
The EU demands them to carry more, and they won`t.

So merry go round.


One more edit, also quite obvious that the people do not get to decide these kind of things, they are decided by the Monopoly men.

a reply to: gortex

Easy.. actually consistently have more than half the population on your side..


There was a butt ton of buyers remorse after the vote..

If you have another vote asking “leave without a deal” or “stay”

I bet stay wins..


You can’t have public opinion behind you for 5 seconds and expect the ramifications to last forever..


If over half the population still wanted to leave today, ya’ll would be gone..

a reply to: gortex
There are stil options.
Gove was asked at the beginning of the week whether the cabinet would abide by a law passed this week, and his reply was something like "let's see what it says, first". Anti-Brexit campaigners were shocked, but the enthusiasts for the bill don't seem to have taken the implied point on board.
It is actually rather difficult for legislature to compel an executive action. If the law says "You must ask for an extension" and he doesn't do it, what can the law do about that if no penalty has been written in? If Britain is out of the EU in November under internatiional law, as a fait accompli, the fact that the cabinet acted "illegally" will make no difference. The November Commons could vote to punish him, but it would be too late by then.
Of course Boris is not going to advertise that possibility before the end of the week. If he's willing to ignore the legislation, he would prefer the Commons to be wasting their time on it rather than thinking up something else.

There is also the nuclear option of "la Reine s'avisera", but if he's going to ignore the law anyway, there's no need to go that far.

originally posted by: gortex

It's over , we lost.

sadly, I think this happened a long time ago.

In the US, we have a cool thing with the 2nd amendment. It even speaks of well regulated militia, but if you were to try to form a militia, you would be labeled a domestic terrorist, so I see your point.

ETA, but if you do want to try to leave, there are some "blueprints" available.
en.wikipedia.org...

There is nothing against what parliament have done, parliament is the sovereign after all and this is all legal and consistent with parliamentary procedure.

You might not like what they are doing which is fine but its wrong to frame this as some kind of coup, it is a legal mechanism of government to take control of the agenda to debate legislation.

I also think that we need to reaffirm that its not about being anti-brexit for a lot of MPs but rather anit-no-deal, I think the attempt to frame it otherwise is just a clever ploy by Dominic Cummings and JRM to pave way for a general election that is going to be fought on the premise of the people vs the parliament.

You can disagree with them but they are only representing the views of their constituents, I mean you're calling the father of the house and the grandson of Churchill a "traitor" because they don't agree with a no-deal Brexit. To me that seems a little extreme. There is very little support for a no-deal, it is only right that parliament, the sovereign elected democratically to represent our views then would act in the best interests of the country to block this. You might call them traitors but others might call them heroic, putting their country before their party and their careers to act.

I think we all need to calm it with the inflammatory language and look at the facts.

The key one being that we live in a parliamentary democracy where parliament is sovereign, and our democratically parliament's will is to block a no-deal.

a reply to: DISRAELI

I'd like to think there is still a chance but the remainers in parliament have the Speaker on board and seemingly a counter to everything Johnson tries to do , I don't see how Brexit can be delivered with the opposition it faces in Parliament.

a reply to: gortex
If he completes the job without asking them (e'g during a prorogation), that's how it might be done. I always thought that was the point of that move.

originally posted by: gortex
a reply to: DISRAELI

I'd like to think there is still a chance but the remainers in parliament have the Speaker on board and seemingly a counter to everything Johnson tries to do , I don't see how Brexit can be delivered with the opposition it faces in Parliament.

To be very clear it is no-deal that will not pass parliament.

A deal was proposed and it was voted down, now the merits of that deal are debatable but most of the current front bench including Boris voted against it.

What is happening right now is just Parliament putting forward legislation to block a no-deal.

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

To be very clear it is no-deal that will not pass parliament.

So they send the PM to negotiate a deal with the EU with one arm tied behind his back , the only deal we will be offered is Theresa May's deal 2.0 , we will leave in name only while still tied to the EU.

That is not Brexit.

originally posted by: gortex
a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

To be very clear it is no-deal that will not pass parliament.

So they send the PM to negotiate a deal with the EU with one arm tied behind his back , the only deal we will be offered is Theresa May's deal 2.0 , we will leave in name only while still tied to the EU.

That is not Brexit.

There are lots of other options that are open should the UK government change their position, for example if the UK Government where to drastically change its position and negotiate a Norway style deal where we remain with in the Single Market then it completely changes the negotiations. The vote was leave the EU, we can leave the EU, still respect the will of the British people but without a no-deal or Mays Deal, there is a whole range of possibilities that have not been explored mostly because of the pressure of groups like the ERG.

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

I'm done mate , seen enough to convince me to no longer take part in a sham Democracy , I will no longer vote in any election as it's clear we have no voice so I for one will no longer going to participate in the sham.

This shep is going to go sit under a bush.

originally posted by: gortex
a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

I'm done mate , seen enough to convince me to no longer take part in a sham Democracy , I will no longer vote in any election as it's clear we have no voice so I for one will no longer going to participate in the sham.

This shep is going to go sit under a bush.

I get your frustration really I do.

I know that you and I disagree on Brexit but I am sure we can agree on this; Brexit has demonstrated how ineffective our current system of government is. Something needs to change.

a reply to: gortex

Do you think it would make a difference if your country had
the right to the finest combat weapon of your choice?

I am sorry this is happening to you and in the long term for your
sake as well as mine. We can't let it happen in america because
the world is at the mercy of tyrants.

originally posted by: carsforkids
a reply to: gortex

Do you think it would make a difference if your country had
the right to the finest combat weapon of your choice?

No it would make no difference whatsoever.

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

Don't be curt with me? I'm not trying to be a jackass.
The question is relevant and the answer deserves more.

Gove was asked at the beginning of the week whether the cabinet would abide by a law passed this week,

What's with the silent treatment?

You're right it's over! If the cabinet has to be asked if it would abide by a law?
Turn out the lights. We'll hold on to our weapons over here. God knows we'll prolly
have to bail you out again.

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

There are lots of other options that are open should the UK government change their position, for example if the UK Government where to drastically change its position and negotiate a Norway style deal where we remain with in the Single Market then it completely changes the negotiations. The vote was leave the EU, we can leave the EU, still respect the will of the British people but without a no-deal or Mays Deal, there is a whole range of possibilities that have not been explored mostly because of the pressure of groups like the ERG.

That's an informative answer. Thanks for the clarification.

One problem I see, however. Three years has already passed; and to explore the range of possibilities could take another three years which begins to raise the issue that Brexit interminably delayed is no Brexit and the UK is still a fiefdom of the EU and likely to go down the economic crapper with the continent. And all the while having to absorb ever more migrants hostile to the host culture.

That's really sad.

originally posted by: carsforkids
You're right it's over! If the cabinet has to be asked if it would abide by a law?

The problem is that what's on offer is not a true law. It's a series of executive decisions masquerading as a law. The legislature is moving out of its true function.

a reply to: DISRAELI

The problem is that what's on offer is not a true law. It's a series of executive decisions masquerading as a law. The legislature is moving out of its true function.

Thank you Dis for the explanation much appreciated. Am I wrong therefore,
still seeing this in such a negative way? Because that just seems like smoke
and mirrors to me offering no reason to change OPs lake of hope?

a reply to: carsforkids

Don't be curt with me? I'm not trying to be a jackass.
The question is relevant and the answer deserves more.

Not trying to be curt just in the middle of making dinner, responding to threads on here, reddit and other sites while also trying to keep up with the news....sigh...

You asked a question, would the UK having a second amendment make any kind of difference.

The answer is quite simply no.

Everyone having guns would have no impact on events in parliament.

You're right it's over! If the cabinet has to be asked if it would abide by a law?

Again not wanting to be "curt" but do you know the difference between government and parliament?