Trying to resolve 9/11

a reply to: Hulseyreport

Why do you think steel structures are required to have fire insulation by code?

a reply to: Hulseyreport

What buildings built like the WTC buildings have caught on fire? Can you name a comparable building design that caught fire?

And you still want to dismiss the fire related failures and partial fire related collapse witnessed in WTC 5?

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: Hulseyreport

You

Pretty incredible if you think about when these are the first known failures of steel-framed buildings in history.

Blatant falsehood by you.

The Windsor Tower Fire, Madrid

The Damage
The Windsor Tower was completely gutted by the fire on 12 February 2005. A large portion of the floor slabs above the 17th Floor progressively collapsed during the fire when the unprotected steel perimeter columns on the upper levels buckled and collapsed (see Figure 1). It was believed that the massive transfer structure at the 17th Floor level resisted further collapse of the building.
The whole building was beyond repair and had to be demolished. The estimated property loss was �72m before the renovation.
Based on the footages of available media filming, Table 2 summarises the estimated time frame for the structural collapses of the Windsor Tower

East face of the 21st floor collapsed
1:37 South middle section of several floors above the 21st floor gradually collapsed
1:50 Partsoffloorslabwithcurtainwallscollapsed
2:02 Partsoffloorslabwithcurtainwallscollapsed
2:11 Partsoffloorslabwithcurtainwallscollapsed
2:13 Floors above about 25th floor collapsed
Large collapse of middle section at about 20th floor
2:17 Partsoffloorslabwithcurtainwallscollapsed
2:47 Southwest corner of 1 ~ 2 floors below about 20th floor collapsed
2:51 Southeast corner of about 18th ~ 20th floors collapsed
3:35 Southmiddlesectionofabout17th~20thfloorscollapsed Fire broke through the Upper Technical Floor
3:48 Fire flame spurted out below the Upper Technical Floor 4:17 DebrisontheUpperTechnicalFloorfelldown
Analysis
The main factors leading to the rapid fire growth and the fire spread to almost all floors included:
the lack of effective fire fighting measures, such as automotive sprinklers
the “open plan” floors with a floor area of 1000m2
the failure of vertical compartmentation measures, in the façade system and the floor openings
It was believed that the multiple floor fire, along with the simultaneous buckling of the unprotected steel perimeter columns at several floors, triggered the collapse of the floor slabs above the 17th floor. The reduced damage below the 17th floor might provide a clue.

materialsforinteriorsind54862016.files.wordpress.com...

First embarrassing you can't work google to determine if the building remained. Just accusing someone of deception and not finding out first not a good show. I can get what you believe in stupid explanations for events and carry on like you do.

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: Hulseyreport



And you still want to dismiss the fire related failures and partial fire related collapse witnessed in WTC 5?

What do you see in this photograph? Give me your take not what you read somewhere?

originally posted by: Hulseyreport

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: Hulseyreport



And you still want to dismiss the fire related failures and partial fire related collapse witnessed in WTC 5?

What do you see in this photograph? Give me your take not what you read somewhere?

That you ignored the two areas where the fire related failures happened in WTC 5

Two areas in WTC 5 experienced local collapse under an intact portion of the roof. Although there was debris impact near this area, the symmetrical nature of the collapse strongly suggests that the failures were due to the uncontrolled fires. This is supported by the observation that the columns in this area remained straight and freestanding (see Figure 4-18). This local collapse appeared to have begun at the field connection where beams were connected to shop-fabricated beam stubs and column assemblies as illustrated in Figures 4-19, 4-20, and 4-21.

www.fema.gov...

originally posted by: Hulseyreport

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: Hulseyreport

You

Pretty incredible if you think about when these are the first known failures of steel-framed buildings in history.

Blatant falsehood by you.

The Windsor Tower Fire, Madrid

The Damage
The Windsor Tower was completely gutted by the fire on 12 February 2005. A large portion of the floor slabs above the 17th Floor progressively collapsed during the fire when the unprotected steel perimeter columns on the upper levels buckled and collapsed (see Figure 1). It was believed that the massive transfer structure at the 17th Floor level resisted further collapse of the building.
The whole building was beyond repair and had to be demolished. The estimated property loss was �72m before the renovation.
Based on the footages of available media filming, Table 2 summarises the estimated time frame for the structural collapses of the Windsor Tower

East face of the 21st floor collapsed
1:37 South middle section of several floors above the 21st floor gradually collapsed
1:50 Partsoffloorslabwithcurtainwallscollapsed
2:02 Partsoffloorslabwithcurtainwallscollapsed
2:11 Partsoffloorslabwithcurtainwallscollapsed
2:13 Floors above about 25th floor collapsed
Large collapse of middle section at about 20th floor
2:17 Partsoffloorslabwithcurtainwallscollapsed
2:47 Southwest corner of 1 ~ 2 floors below about 20th floor collapsed
2:51 Southeast corner of about 18th ~ 20th floors collapsed
3:35 Southmiddlesectionofabout17th~20thfloorscollapsed Fire broke through the Upper Technical Floor
3:48 Fire flame spurted out below the Upper Technical Floor 4:17 DebrisontheUpperTechnicalFloorfelldown
Analysis
The main factors leading to the rapid fire growth and the fire spread to almost all floors included:
the lack of effective fire fighting measures, such as automotive sprinklers
the “open plan” floors with a floor area of 1000m2
the failure of vertical compartmentation measures, in the façade system and the floor openings
It was believed that the multiple floor fire, along with the simultaneous buckling of the unprotected steel perimeter columns at several floors, triggered the collapse of the floor slabs above the 17th floor. The reduced damage below the 17th floor might provide a clue.

materialsforinteriorsind54862016.files.wordpress.com...

First embarrassing you can't work google to determine if the building remained. Just accusing someone of deception and not finding out first not a good show. I can get what you believe in stupid explanations for events and carry on like you do.

Again...

A large portion of the floor slabs above the 17th Floor progressively collapsed during the fire when the unprotected steel perimeter columns on the upper levels buckled and collapsed (see Figure 1)

materialsforinteriorsind54862016.files.wordpress.com...

And....

. It was believed that the massive transfer structure at the 17th Floor level resisted further collapse of the building.

materialsforinteriorsind54862016.files.wordpress.com...

What did you not understand that,” steel perimeter columns on the upper levels buckled”, and the WTC buildings didn’t have ” massive transfer structure” like the Windsor.

Now.

What buildings built like the WTC buildings have caught on fire? Can you name a comparable building design that caught fire?

a reply to: Hulseyreport

And I asked....

So. You have absolutely no evidence the collapse initiation of WTC 1 and WTC 2 was from detonations, and no evidence the collapse of WTC 1 and WTC 2 were sustained by detonations.

Post evidence of columns cut to initiate collapse from the video, audio, seismic, physical evidence.

I am talking about the actual collapse which you don’t want to discuss.

originally posted by: Hulseyreport

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: Hulseyreport

You

Pretty incredible if you think about when these are the first known failures of steel-framed buildings in history.

Blatant falsehood by you.

The Windsor Tower Fire, Madrid

The Damage
The Windsor Tower was completely gutted by the fire on 12 February 2005. A large portion of the floor slabs above the 17th Floor progressively collapsed during the fire when the unprotected steel perimeter columns on the upper levels buckled and collapsed (see Figure 1). It was believed that the massive transfer structure at the 17th Floor level resisted further collapse of the building.
The whole building was beyond repair and had to be demolished. The estimated property loss was �72m before the renovation.
Based on the footages of available media filming, Table 2 summarises the estimated time frame for the structural collapses of the Windsor Tower

East face of the 21st floor collapsed
1:37 South middle section of several floors above the 21st floor gradually collapsed
1:50 Partsoffloorslabwithcurtainwallscollapsed
2:02 Partsoffloorslabwithcurtainwallscollapsed
2:11 Partsoffloorslabwithcurtainwallscollapsed
2:13 Floors above about 25th floor collapsed
Large collapse of middle section at about 20th floor
2:17 Partsoffloorslabwithcurtainwallscollapsed
2:47 Southwest corner of 1 ~ 2 floors below about 20th floor collapsed
2:51 Southeast corner of about 18th ~ 20th floors collapsed
3:35 Southmiddlesectionofabout17th~20thfloorscollapsed Fire broke through the Upper Technical Floor
3:48 Fire flame spurted out below the Upper Technical Floor 4:17 DebrisontheUpperTechnicalFloorfelldown
Analysis
The main factors leading to the rapid fire growth and the fire spread to almost all floors included:
the lack of effective fire fighting measures, such as automotive sprinklers
the “open plan” floors with a floor area of 1000m2
the failure of vertical compartmentation measures, in the façade system and the floor openings
It was believed that the multiple floor fire, along with the simultaneous buckling of the unprotected steel perimeter columns at several floors, triggered the collapse of the floor slabs above the 17th floor. The reduced damage below the 17th floor might provide a clue.

materialsforinteriorsind54862016.files.wordpress.com...

First embarrassing you can't work google to determine if the building remained. Just accusing someone of deception and not finding out first not a good show. I can get what you believe in stupid explanations for events and carry on like you do.

Most of the remaining structure of the pictured tower is composed of vertical concrete columns. How many concrete columns did WTC 1 and 2 have?

The building featured two heavily reinforced concrete transfer structures (technical floors) between
the 2nd and 3rd Floors, and between the 16th and 17th Floors respectively. The original cladding system was fixed to the steel perimeter columns and the floor slabs. The perimeter columns were
supported by the transfer structures at the 17th and 3rd Floor levels.

materialsforinteriorsind54862016.files.wordpress.com...

originally posted by: neutronflux

originally posted by: Hulseyreport

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: Hulseyreport



And you still want to dismiss the fire related failures and partial fire related collapse witnessed in WTC 5?

What do you see in this photograph? Give me your take not what you read somewhere?

That you ignored the two areas where the fire related failures happened in WTC 5

Two areas in WTC 5 experienced local collapse under an intact portion of the roof. Although there was debris impact near this area, the symmetrical nature of the collapse strongly suggests that the failures were due to the uncontrolled fires. This is supported by the observation that the columns in this area remained straight and freestanding (see Figure 4-18). This local collapse appeared to have begun at the field connection where beams were connected to shop-fabricated beam stubs and column assemblies as illustrated in Figures 4-19, 4-20, and 4-21.

www.fema.gov...

I have not ignored anything you just accept things without thinking about it first or just refuse to hear the other side's opinion.

That description is absolutely conflicting. 
How can debris be near the field of destruction have no impact on the support surrounding structure?  It not like debris got settled there manually. 
FEMA for some reason suggesting fire alone led to the failure make zero sense.
Even their own shot reveals two great gaps in the ceiling and there a huge opening all way back from the frontal to the back end., The span of the room obviously was undermined in this space to induce a limited failure there. This region was gutted out all the way back where they captured a picture of a twisted-column. The wreckage caused that damage and fire helped. Claiming fire only did not backed by actual photographs taken. 

Columns standing doesn't mean anything. It all hinges on where the debris strike and what connections failed. The unstable parts of the building are expected to break early when battered by steel rubble and debris. Stupid illogical explantation fire caused steel to break and crack open. I honestly fear if just one guy/ or girl who wrote this?

a reply to: Hulseyreport

And I asked....

So. You have absolutely no evidence the collapse initiation of WTC 1 and WTC 2 was from detonations, and no evidence the collapse of WTC 1 and WTC 2 were sustained by detonations.

Post evidence of columns cut to initiate collapse from the video, audio, seismic, physical evidence.

I am talking about the actual collapse which you don’t want to discuss.

a reply to: Hulseyreport

FEMA for some reason suggesting fire alone led to the failure make zero sense

Quote from the report where that is stated. Why do you ignore thermal expansion, thermal contraction, thermal stress, and temperature increases in steel reduces steel’s ability to resist load.

a reply to: Hulseyreport

You

That description is absolutely conflicting.

Quote from the report where it contradicts itself.

You just don’t want the report to be true. And you only have innuendo.

originally posted by: neutronflux

originally posted by: Hulseyreport

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: Hulseyreport

You

Pretty incredible if you think about when these are the first known failures of steel-framed buildings in history.

Blatant falsehood by you.

The Windsor Tower Fire, Madrid

The Damage
The Windsor Tower was completely gutted by the fire on 12 February 2005. A large portion of the floor slabs above the 17th Floor progressively collapsed during the fire when the unprotected steel perimeter columns on the upper levels buckled and collapsed (see Figure 1). It was believed that the massive transfer structure at the 17th Floor level resisted further collapse of the building.
The whole building was beyond repair and had to be demolished. The estimated property loss was �72m before the renovation.
Based on the footages of available media filming, Table 2 summarises the estimated time frame for the structural collapses of the Windsor Tower

East face of the 21st floor collapsed
1:37 South middle section of several floors above the 21st floor gradually collapsed
1:50 Partsoffloorslabwithcurtainwallscollapsed
2:02 Partsoffloorslabwithcurtainwallscollapsed
2:11 Partsoffloorslabwithcurtainwallscollapsed
2:13 Floors above about 25th floor collapsed
Large collapse of middle section at about 20th floor
2:17 Partsoffloorslabwithcurtainwallscollapsed
2:47 Southwest corner of 1 ~ 2 floors below about 20th floor collapsed
2:51 Southeast corner of about 18th ~ 20th floors collapsed
3:35 Southmiddlesectionofabout17th~20thfloorscollapsed Fire broke through the Upper Technical Floor
3:48 Fire flame spurted out below the Upper Technical Floor 4:17 DebrisontheUpperTechnicalFloorfelldown
Analysis
The main factors leading to the rapid fire growth and the fire spread to almost all floors included:
the lack of effective fire fighting measures, such as automotive sprinklers
the “open plan” floors with a floor area of 1000m2
the failure of vertical compartmentation measures, in the façade system and the floor openings
It was believed that the multiple floor fire, along with the simultaneous buckling of the unprotected steel perimeter columns at several floors, triggered the collapse of the floor slabs above the 17th floor. The reduced damage below the 17th floor might provide a clue.

materialsforinteriorsind54862016.files.wordpress.com...

First embarrassing you can't work google to determine if the building remained. Just accusing someone of deception and not finding out first not a good show. I can get what you believe in stupid explanations for events and carry on like you do.

Most of the remaining structure of the pictured tower is composed of vertical concrete columns. How many concrete columns did WTC 1 and 2 have?

The building featured two heavily reinforced concrete transfer structures (technical floors) between
the 2nd and 3rd Floors, and between the 16th and 17th Floors respectively. The original cladding system was fixed to the steel perimeter columns and the floor slabs. The perimeter columns were
supported by the transfer structures at the 17th and 3rd Floor levels.

materialsforinteriorsind54862016.files.wordpress.com...

Can you point out why there no progressive collapse?
Why since a couple of unprotected steel columns failed the construction should have fallen down?
That your proposal for WTC7 is it not fire buckled a couple of columns and the full building fell down!
The floor was concrete, that was exposed too with no fire protection, that would lead to an actual loss of columns if it went. 
Towers' central core was steel, not concrete. It composed of stronger elements and would operate stronger in a fire.
Steel is more resistant to fire individual engineering firms pre 9/11 tested steel in fire conditions of 1000c plus, unsupported no fireproofing for an hour and that steel only sagged.
This building here was on fire for 20 hours- it withstood a large fire for that long and did not fully collapse. Your own beliefs appear to not hold up since on 9/11 entire building collapsed.
Find me a building that supports your narrative and explanations and we can talk. 

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: Hulseyreport

You

That description is absolutely conflicting.

Quote from the report where it contradicts itself.

You just don’t want the report to be true. And you only have innuendo.

Read what you just copied and pasted. I replied and wrote about it, why.
I can see exactly where the twisted-column picture was taken- the highlight it in the floor plans in the link you provided.
It roughly in the same area with the picture of two holes in the roof was taken.

a reply to: Hulseyreport

It’s been quote from the report to you in this thread.

Here is the link to the article
materialsforinteriorsind54862016.files.wordpress.com...

Here is a link to the post
www.abovetopsecret.com...

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: Hulseyreport

You

Pretty incredible if you think about when these are the first known failures of steel-framed buildings in history.

Blatant falsehood by you.

The Windsor Tower Fire, Madrid

The Damage
The Windsor Tower was completely gutted by the fire on 12 February 2005. A large portion of the floor slabs above the 17th Floor progressively collapsed during the fire when the unprotected steel perimeter columns on the upper levels buckled and collapsed (see Figure 1). It was believed that the massive transfer structure at the 17th Floor level resisted further collapse of the building.
The whole building was beyond repair and had to be demolished. The estimated property loss was �72m before the renovation.
Based on the footages of available media filming, Table 2 summarises the estimated time frame for the structural collapses of the Windsor Tower

East face of the 21st floor collapsed
1:37 South middle section of several floors above the 21st floor gradually collapsed
1:50 Partsoffloorslabwithcurtainwallscollapsed
2:02 Partsoffloorslabwithcurtainwallscollapsed
2:11 Partsoffloorslabwithcurtainwallscollapsed
2:13 Floors above about 25th floor collapsed
Large collapse of middle section at about 20th floor
2:17 Partsoffloorslabwithcurtainwallscollapsed
2:47 Southwest corner of 1 ~ 2 floors below about 20th floor collapsed
2:51 Southeast corner of about 18th ~ 20th floors collapsed
3:35 Southmiddlesectionofabout17th~20thfloorscollapsed Fire broke through the Upper Technical Floor
3:48 Fire flame spurted out below the Upper Technical Floor 4:17 DebrisontheUpperTechnicalFloorfelldown
Analysis
The main factors leading to the rapid fire growth and the fire spread to almost all floors included:
the lack of effective fire fighting measures, such as automotive sprinklers
the “open plan” floors with a floor area of 1000m2
the failure of vertical compartmentation measures, in the façade system and the floor openings
It was believed that the multiple floor fire, along with the simultaneous buckling of the unprotected steel perimeter columns at several floors, triggered the collapse of the floor slabs above the 17th floor. The reduced damage below the 17th floor might provide a clue.

materialsforinteriorsind54862016.files.wordpress.com...

a reply to: Hulseyreport

So you cannot provide an actual quote.

Sad

originally posted by: Hulseyreport

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: Hulseyreport

You

That description is absolutely conflicting.

Quote from the report where it contradicts itself.

You just don’t want the report to be true. And you only have innuendo.

Read what you just copied and pasted. I replied and wrote about it, why.
I can see exactly where the twisted-column picture was taken- the highlight it in the floor plans in the link you provided.
It roughly in the same area with the picture of two holes in the roof was taken.

What do you not get the report referenced two areas and at least three different figures.

a reply to: Hulseyreport

If this Failure was from a shear load dropping, the failure would be up and down. The failure is from a pulling action. Not from something dropping on the member.

a reply to: neutronflux

The Confusor hard at work again, from 1, 2, 7 and Beyond! (or to 5).

Did 1, 2 or 7 have some of those absolutely beautiful sketches btw?