Trying to resolve 9/11

a reply to: Hulseyreport

You

Love how Debunkers use WTC5 as evidence when it was on fire and building remained.

But there was fire related failures and the collapse of floors in WTC 5.

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: Hulseyreport

You

Love how Debunkers use WTC5 as evidence when it was on fire and building remained.

But there was fire related failures and the collapse of floors in WTC 5.

Collapsed floor? 
It shows an internal break on one or two floors in a limited area. Photograph difficult it did not record what floor in the building that is. The full span of floor not gone, you can determine that.

WTC5 partial floor failures were caused by fire and debris from the towers collapse. You, people, are claiming three-buildings failed entirely to just fire alone

originally posted by: Hulseyreport

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: Hulseyreport

And why don’t you want to talk about all the smaller floor connections that where bent down and sheared from the vertical columns?

How many pieces underwent the sulfur attack again? Can you put a number to the amount of pieces? Or you talking an isolated case limited to a few pieces?

I can merely go by what they released online. I strongly believe there was many more dump locations with identical steel. The photographs were captured at just one location in Oct 2001. 

Again. What does that have to do with zero evidence from the video, audio, seismic, physical evidence that the collapse of WTC 1 and WTC 2 was initiated and sustained by detonations?

Why don’t you want to talk about the actual collapse initiation, the actual collapse, and the video?

a reply to: Hulseyreport

The debris from the WTC site was carted to Fresh Kills landfill on Staten Island for sorting and analysis

Manhattan is an island , in case you don't know, with only limited ways on/off via tunnels and bridges

Explain how procession of dump trucks is going to leave Manhattan without being notices and where they would be going …...

originally posted by: neutronflux

originally posted by: Hulseyreport

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: Hulseyreport

You mean like stuff that was found in WTC 5

WTC5 other locations. Steel pieces from WTC1 and WTC2 impacted the construction. Connections will certainly come apart from that. 
What a twisted-column 4.14 it not failed column. That column may have received shot by an object. It a tiny picture with no good view of the surrounding destruction.
Love how Debunkers use WTC5 as evidence when it was on fire and building remained.
4.18 you can determine the floor girders and joists and trusses are still there did not collapse What a weird position its the debunker claim fire led to a failure of comparable joists, trusses and beams and girders at WTC7 scene?
A partial failure caused by tower debris reaching the building, it not evidence to demonstrate the other collapse are possible.. 

What are you rambling about?

Do you have any evidence that the collapse of WTC 1 and WTC 2 was initiated by and sustained by detonations.

Considering the vertical columns fell only after the loss of lateral support of the floor system, with no evidence of being cut, I say no.

Read the thread plenty of evidence provided.

a reply to: Hulseyreport

WTC5 partial floor failures were caused by fire and debris from the towers collapse. You, people, are claiming three-buildings failed entirely to just fire alone

Partially false statement with miss leading innuendo.

WTC 5 report for you to actually quote.

www.fema.gov...




Looks like the roof is intact above the closest floor failures....

originally posted by: Hulseyreport

originally posted by: neutronflux

originally posted by: Hulseyreport

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: Hulseyreport

You mean like stuff that was found in WTC 5

WTC5 other locations. Steel pieces from WTC1 and WTC2 impacted the construction. Connections will certainly come apart from that. 
What a twisted-column 4.14 it not failed column. That column may have received shot by an object. It a tiny picture with no good view of the surrounding destruction.
Love how Debunkers use WTC5 as evidence when it was on fire and building remained.
4.18 you can determine the floor girders and joists and trusses are still there did not collapse What a weird position its the debunker claim fire led to a failure of comparable joists, trusses and beams and girders at WTC7 scene?
A partial failure caused by tower debris reaching the building, it not evidence to demonstrate the other collapse are possible.. 

What are you rambling about?

Do you have any evidence that the collapse of WTC 1 and WTC 2 was initiated by and sustained by detonations.

Considering the vertical columns fell only after the loss of lateral support of the floor system, with no evidence of being cut, I say no.

Read the thread plenty of evidence provided.

Then should be easy for you to quote the post. Or just more innuendo by you.....

originally posted by: firerescue
a reply to: Hulseyreport

The debris from the WTC site was carted to Fresh Kills landfill on Staten Island for sorting and analysis

Manhattan is an island , in case you don't know, with only limited ways on/off via tunnels and bridges

Explain how procession of dump trucks is going to leave Manhattan without being notices and where they would be going …...

NIST declares they were incapable to discover steel from WTC7 scene in their paper. So that actually means nobody split the different steel from one area to the next. We have to take the word for it steel was just moved to the dump locations and there was no underhand interest that took place. It just another failure to protect steel for analysis afterward. I even think how did FEMA identify their steel was from the WTC7 site and NIST claimed they could not discover any steel from this site during their study of the collapse. 

originally posted by: neutronflux

originally posted by: Hulseyreport

originally posted by: neutronflux

originally posted by: Hulseyreport

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: Hulseyreport

You mean like stuff that was found in WTC 5

WTC5 other locations. Steel pieces from WTC1 and WTC2 impacted the construction. Connections will certainly come apart from that. 
What a twisted-column 4.14 it not failed column. That column may have received shot by an object. It a tiny picture with no good view of the surrounding destruction.
Love how Debunkers use WTC5 as evidence when it was on fire and building remained.
4.18 you can determine the floor girders and joists and trusses are still there did not collapse What a weird position its the debunker claim fire led to a failure of comparable joists, trusses and beams and girders at WTC7 scene?
A partial failure caused by tower debris reaching the building, it not evidence to demonstrate the other collapse are possible.. 

What are you rambling about?

Do you have any evidence that the collapse of WTC 1 and WTC 2 was initiated by and sustained by detonations.

Considering the vertical columns fell only after the loss of lateral support of the floor system, with no evidence of being cut, I say no.

Read the thread plenty of evidence provided.

Then should be easy for you to quote the post. Or just more innuendo by you.....

You have failed to understand it so far, I will just be repeating myself. Go back and read the thread.

a reply to: Hulseyreport

So. You have absolutely no evidence the collapse initiation of WTC 1 and WTC 2 was from detonations, and no evidence the collapse of WTC 1 and WTC 2 were sustained by detonations.

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: Hulseyreport

WTC5 partial floor failures were caused by fire and debris from the towers collapse. You, people, are claiming three-buildings failed entirely to just fire alone

Partially false statement with miss leading innuendo.

WTC 5 report for you to actually quote.

www.fema.gov...

Looks like the roof is intact above the closest floor failures....

A study you did not even open I bet.
FEMA claimed fire- but you actually see large holes in the roof where the twisted beam was located. It was not just fire that caused that collapse.

Look at figure 4.12 and compare the locations.

a reply to: Hulseyreport

Two areas in WTC 5 experienced local collapse under an intact portion of the roof. Although there was debris impact near this area, the symmetrical nature of the collapse strongly suggests that the failures were due to the uncontrolled fires. This is supported by the observation that the columns in this area remained straight and freestanding (see Figure 4-18). This local collapse appeared to have begun at the field connection where beams were connected to shop-fabricated beam stubs and column assemblies as illustrated in Figures 4-19, 4-20, and 4-21.

The structural collapse appeared to be due to a combination of excessive shear loads on bolted connections and unanticipated tensile forces resulting from catenary sagging of the beams. The existence of high shear loads, likely due to collapsing floor loads from above, was evident in many of the column-tree beam stub cantilevers that formed diagonal tension field mechanisms in the cantilever webs and plastic moments at the column, as seen in Figure 4-18.
It is apparent that fire weakened the steel, contributing to the large shear-induced deformations observed in several of the cantilever beams. The shear failures observed at connection ends in several of the beam web samples shown in Figure 4-18 are indicative of the tensile forces that developed. The end bearing resistance of the beam web was found to be less than the double shear strength of the high-strength bolts, based on the analysis presented in Appendix B.
Steel framing connection samples were recovered from floors 6, 7, and 8 of WTC 5 with the aid of the New York Department of Design and Construction (DDC) and are described in Figure 4-22. These samples have not been analyzed and are being preserved for future study. The photographs of connection samples in Figure 4-22 indicate that the deformed structure subjected the bolted shear connection to a large tensile force. At 550 °C (1,022 °F), the ultimate resistance of the three bolts is about 45 kips. The capacity increases to approximately 90 kips at room temperature. Connection failure likely occurred between these bounds.

Tensile catenary action of floor framing members and their connections has been neither a design requirement nor a design consideration for most buildings. Further study of such mechanisms for member failures in fires should be conducted to determine whether current design parameters are adequate for performance under fire loads.

www.fema.gov...

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: Hulseyreport

So. You have absolutely no evidence the collapse initiation of WTC 1 and WTC 2 was from detonations, and no evidence the collapse of WTC 1 and WTC 2 were sustained by detonations.

You can't give any evidence fire would go on this to the steel. That should be your wake up you mistaken.
You arguing hard for an explanation that not endorsed by fire records or past history. You theory based on nothing but taking the official account narrative as gospel.
You reject all the anomalies as if they don't exist. Like the excessive heat in the debris, the stream of liquid pictured. NIST wrongly stating matters as fact and turned out to be false numerous times. The fact the informed individuals at their own introduction of the final draft of world trade seven collapses in Aug 2008 that freefall was not a detail of progressive collapse should have been another wake-up call for debunkers like yourself. How can they claim that after six years of analysis and in matters] of months reverse their viewpoint and believe progressive collapse and freefall are not incompatible? You had the major smoking gun in 2008 NIST was completely full of #.  There so many issues with their work its annoying you guys still support the effort.

a reply to: Hulseyreport

You

You can't give any evidence fire would go on this to the steel.

Then what caused the pictured failures since they relate to parts of the structure not hit by falling debris.

a reply to: Hulseyreport

And you are trying to change the subject.

Again.....

So. You have absolutely no evidence the collapse initiation of WTC 1 and WTC 2 was from detonations, and no evidence the collapse of WTC 1 and WTC 2 were sustained by detonations.

a reply to: Hulseyreport

The trucks hauling steel and debris from WTC were equipped with GPS tracking devices to improve efficiency

www.cnet.com...

You lose again....

Try doing some research first before beclown yourself

originally posted by: neutronflux
a reply to: Hulseyreport

And you are trying to change the subject.

Again.....

So. You have absolutely no evidence the collapse initiation of WTC 1 and WTC 2 was from detonations, and no evidence the collapse of WTC 1 and WTC 2 were sustained by detonations.

Do you reside in another universe?
NIST claimed all three buildings gave way to fire. It not changing the subject I am on point.
We simply have to prove NIST conclusions are mistaken one stage to see the controlled demolition narrative demonstrates the failure.
We have multiple reasons to suspect the official version. 

Example: Missing connections that NIST left off that enabled collapse. Even the NIST hypothesis is unproven in fire conditions with the systems and correct construction models set. How can you not know fire can only induce a collapse to the physical construction of the actual real buildings? NIST can not remove material to accommodate their assumption that's not science- its pseudosciences of the worst kind and conveys the fraud in a culture that engineers groups did not query it. 

Even their organization of 200 engineers missed the evidence for six years the building experienced a free-fall condition over 8 floors and that a damning charge of their performance and analysis. Shyam Sunder of NIST, when asked, said outright freefall is not consistent with the analysis we did. Their entire scenario involving buckling columns simply does not fit in at all with a freefall scenario. If it had he would say so in Aug 2008. They noticed that then and they know it now, but realized it was such a smoking gun they had to rapidly recover so they declared it was just negligible support in their final complete investigation. Negligible support what that even means? In free-fall condition the architectural support gone totally, that really means all 84 columns had to be taken out almost instantaneously when the building started to give way ( roofline movement)
Debunkers don't address any of this they just continue with the same talking points. 

originally posted by: firerescue
a reply to: Hulseyreport

The trucks hauling steel and debris from WTC were equipped with GPS tracking devices to improve efficiency

www.cnet.com...

You lose again....

Try doing some research first before beclown yourself

I don't dispute this news piece.
Where your evidence that shows where WTC7 steel ended up?
According to NIST, they could not find even one steel member from this scene. Pretty incredible if you think about when these are the first known failures of steel-framed buildings in history.
Did NIST check the GPS and trace the location?

a reply to: Hulseyreport

And I asked....

So. You have absolutely no evidence the collapse initiation of WTC 1 and WTC 2 was from detonations, and no evidence the collapse of WTC 1 and WTC 2 were sustained by detonations.

Post evidence of columns cut to initiate collapse from the video, audio, seismic, physical evidence.

I am talking about the actual collapse which you don’t want to discuss.

a reply to: Hulseyreport

You

Pretty incredible if you think about when these are the first known failures of steel-framed buildings in history.

Blatant falsehood by you.

The Windsor Tower Fire, Madrid

The Damage
The Windsor Tower was completely gutted by the fire on 12 February 2005. A large portion of the floor slabs above the 17th Floor progressively collapsed during the fire when the unprotected steel perimeter columns on the upper levels buckled and collapsed (see Figure 1). It was believed that the massive transfer structure at the 17th Floor level resisted further collapse of the building.
The whole building was beyond repair and had to be demolished. The estimated property loss was �72m before the renovation.
Based on the footages of available media filming, Table 2 summarises the estimated time frame for the structural collapses of the Windsor Tower

East face of the 21st floor collapsed
1:37 South middle section of several floors above the 21st floor gradually collapsed
1:50 Partsoffloorslabwithcurtainwallscollapsed
2:02 Partsoffloorslabwithcurtainwallscollapsed
2:11 Partsoffloorslabwithcurtainwallscollapsed
2:13 Floors above about 25th floor collapsed
Large collapse of middle section at about 20th floor
2:17 Partsoffloorslabwithcurtainwallscollapsed
2:47 Southwest corner of 1 ~ 2 floors below about 20th floor collapsed
2:51 Southeast corner of about 18th ~ 20th floors collapsed
3:35 Southmiddlesectionofabout17th~20thfloorscollapsed Fire broke through the Upper Technical Floor
3:48 Fire flame spurted out below the Upper Technical Floor 4:17 DebrisontheUpperTechnicalFloorfelldown
Analysis
The main factors leading to the rapid fire growth and the fire spread to almost all floors included:
the lack of effective fire fighting measures, such as automotive sprinklers
the “open plan” floors with a floor area of 1000m2
the failure of vertical compartmentation measures, in the façade system and the floor openings
It was believed that the multiple floor fire, along with the simultaneous buckling of the unprotected steel perimeter columns at several floors, triggered the collapse of the floor slabs above the 17th floor. The reduced damage below the 17th floor might provide a clue.

materialsforinteriorsind54862016.files.wordpress.com...