Pompeo to UK: Don't use Huawei or you will lose sharing of intel!

a reply to: pexx421

Oh ok, so who was going to stop Russia? Even with the US there Stalin almost invaded Europe to take it. Who would have stopped him if the US was not there? It's not a fantasy scenario, it almost happened, America stopped it.

Ah, well if you say it then it must be true. And that’s why they have a holiday every year in Europe thanking the us from saving them from Russia. Any Europeans here want to chime in with how grateful you are the us saved your sorry asses from Russia during ww2? Cause Russia had only just lost 20 million troops and would obviously steamrolled Europe. Not like the us couldn’t have told Russia no at that point; even if they hadn’t been involved in the war prior. Nice moving the goal post here though.

a reply to: pexx421

It's not me who is saying it, Stalin said it. You are welcome to read the book put out by Anthony Beevor who details it. You have no answer to the question of who would protect Europe, I guess that means no one. You're welcome.

originally posted by: XCrycek
Let's not pretend that Chinese are some peace loving unicorns ...

Yes, quite. In the last (say) 70 years China has invaded Tibet for a start, and has had conflicts with Burma, Taiwan, India, Vietnam and Vietnam ('79 onwards), Korea et al. Not to mention the most recent belligerence in the South China Sea and the atrocious internal repression of the Chinese proper. Those who have fallen for the peace loving China narrative have no grasp on history.

Since you missed it the first time, I’ll say it again. “Even if we hadn’t gotten involved in the war up to that point, what was to stop the us from saying “no” if Russia decided to invade Europe”. Not to mention the other points I made above about the Russian forces depletion and Europe’s ability to fight back themselves notwithstanding.

At any rate, we often have several plans to attack nations as well. And we often act on them. Regardless, who’s to say Europe wouldn’t have been better off under Russian rule? While we’re fantasizing mighthavebeens. Much as we cry the fears of a nazi or China or Russia dominated world, the world doesn’t seem to be doing too well under the us hegemony. 3/4 of the world in desperate poverty, millions killed annually in wars of aggression that never end. Massive ecological collapse and destruction. Every decade another boom and bust.

It’s not that China is peace loving. It’s relative context. That list you posted? Multiply it by 10 for the nations the us has invaded, overthrown, installed dictators in. Repression of their own civilians? We have the largest prison population in the world, subject to rape, abuse, and murder. We do it all over the world, and regularly court catastrophic world wide destruction. And we do it all with an unbelievable hubris, arrogance and entitlement.

a reply to: pexx421

Because Stalin almost invaded when the US was already there. Why would they care what the US said if the US is not there? Now, even if that did happen, it would STILL be the US saving Europe from Russia.

Yeah, Eastern Europe was amazing under Russian rule, it worked out so well.

a reply to: paraphi

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: pexx421

Because Stalin almost invaded when the US was already there. Why would they care what the US said if the US is not there? Now, even if that did happen, it would STILL be the US saving Europe from Russia.

Yeah, Eastern Europe was amazing under Russian rule, it worked out so well.

Yeah, and eastern Europe’s done so well under us neoliberalism. It’s worked out so well. As has Africa, the Middle East, South America. Us hegemony works out for the us, the vast majority of the rest of the world suffers under it. Just like when Russia bought into our neoliberal model after Gorbachev and the oligarchs ran the roost.

originally posted by: pexx421
So let’s think this through. Y’all are worried about the idea of what happens if Europe’s using huawei and war breaks out. I think the cell phone technology will be the least of the worries in that situation. In such a scenario there will likely be near instant nuclear exchange and you will have little time to worry about information compromise.

I think you have misunderstood something.
It's not about cell phones. Imagine huwawei managing your 5g infrastructure, every piece of information that goes through their equipment will be compromised. They would always be 10 steps ahead of you. They could cripple your country without a shot fired.

Why exactly should we give that power to China?
WHY?

originally posted by: pexx421

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: pexx421

Because Stalin almost invaded when the US was already there. Why would they care what the US said if the US is not there? Now, even if that did happen, it would STILL be the US saving Europe from Russia.

Yeah, Eastern Europe was amazing under Russian rule, it worked out so well.

Yeah, and eastern Europe’s done so well under us neoliberalism. It’s worked out so well. As has Africa, the Middle East, South America. Us hegemony works out for the us, the vast majority of the rest of the world suffers under it. Just like when Russia bought into our neoliberal model after Gorbachev and the oligarchs ran the roost.

I bet that none of those eastern european countries would trade their EU membership with being a part of USSR again. Most of those countries were # holes under Russian rule, that's a fact you can't deny. Now EU is far from perfect, USA is far from perfect but I'd chose them any time over Russian and Chinese rule.

a reply to: XCrycek

I just disagree. And I don’t think that’s what it’s about. There were 3 requirements from the us for a trade deal. First was that we allow our banks to buy up more than 50% of their banks and businesses. That’s so we could take a controlling interest. I expect us having a controlling interest in their banks is a threat to them as well, but we demanded it.

Second was to force them to buy 100 billion of our farm machines a year. Why are we forcing them to buy our possibly inferior farm machines? Doesn’t seem very free trade.

And third was to not give them access to the technology in us companies that they buy, or to allow them to buy us tech companies. This is the only one they refused.

The fact of the matter is we don’t do this with European or other nations, or with companies here buying other companies. It IS considered a security matter as we don’t want them to eclipse us in ai, telecoms, or cyber security as these have military applications. But the fact of the matter is that all rising powers “steal tech” from the former powers on the decline (that’s us). We did and do the same things we are worried about them doing. Well boohoo.

Further, whatever the “horrors” of thinking of living under other nations purview, murcans need to get over our “exceptional nation” bs. There are plenty people who have a horrible time living in the us. And there are plenty people who love living in China. Or Russia. Was Eastern Europe rough under Russia? Sure. But how was Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos, Argentina, Columbia, Iraq, Iran, etc ad nauseum living under the us sphere of influence?

It’s pretty easy to predict that if the whole world fell under the total domination of the us you would have a small .0001% oligarchy with all the money and power, and billions living in abject poverty and a massive prison population. Who couldn’t afford healthcare or education and whose wages forever stagnate, with the news channels telling them how great it all is.

a reply to: pexx421

They haven't gone back to Russia, tells you all you need to know. East Berlin was so happy under Russian rule.

Hm, but I notice Crimea, Donetsk, South Ossetia and Luhansk were begging to be let back into Russia when their nations were falling apart under us coups and dictators.

originally posted by: pexx421
a reply to: XCrycek

Further, whatever the “horrors” of thinking of living under other nations purview, murcans need to get over our “exceptional nation” bs. There are plenty people who have a horrible time living in the us. And there are plenty people who love living in China. Or Russia. Was Eastern Europe rough under Russia? Sure. But how was Vietnam, Cambodia, Laos, Argentina, Columbia, Iraq, Iran, etc ad nauseum living under the us sphere of influence?

It’s pretty easy to predict that if the whole world fell under the total domination of the us you would have a small .0001% oligarchy with all the money and power, and billions living in abject poverty and a massive prison population. Who couldn’t afford healthcare or education and whose wages forever stagnate, with the news channels telling them how great it all is.

You will almost never see an American og European move to China or Russia and stay, its rather other way around. As I said, USA and EU are far from perfect but you don't have poverty on a scale that you have in China and especially Russia. Let's not fool ourselves. Again, in the time of migration and immigrants, everyone is m trying to get in to USA and Europe, no one is trying to get to Russia or China and there's a reason for that.

originally posted by: pexx421
Hm, but I notice Crimea, Donetsk, South Ossetia and Luhansk were begging to be let back into Russia when their nations were falling apart under us coups and dictators.

Crimea, that wanted to be left alone from Russia, and is almost entirely ethnic Russians because Russia forcibly removed the original inhabitants and replaced them with Russians. The original Tatar's are only about 10% of the population now. I bet they love that glorious Russian domination.

Get a clue, you are clueless.

a reply to: XCrycek

We will see. With the end of the petro dollar and reserve currency status, and with the us abusing its power all over the world, with massively growing debt and deficit and an impending collapse from financialization, subprime packaged derivatives and a constantly shrinking production economy and de industrialization we will see where the winds start blowing people over the next two decades.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: pexx421
Hm, but I notice Crimea, Donetsk, South Ossetia and Luhansk were begging to be let back into Russia when their nations were falling apart under us coups and dictators.

Crimea, that wanted to be left alone from Russia, and is almost entirely ethnic Russians because Russia forcibly removed the original inhabitants and replaced them with Russians. The original Tatar's are only about 10% of the population now. I bet they love that glorious Russian domination.

Get a clue, you are clueless.

And what’s life like now for the crimeans vs the rest of Ukraine. You’re a brainwashed sheep.

originally posted by: pexx421

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04

originally posted by: pexx421
Hm, but I notice Crimea, Donetsk, South Ossetia and Luhansk were begging to be let back into Russia when their nations were falling apart under us coups and dictators.

Crimea, that wanted to be left alone from Russia, and is almost entirely ethnic Russians because Russia forcibly removed the original inhabitants and replaced them with Russians. The original Tatar's are only about 10% of the population now. I bet they love that glorious Russian domination.

Get a clue, you are clueless.

And what’s life like now for the crimeans vs the rest of Ukraine. You’re a brainwashed sheep.

What is life like for the original Crimean inhabitants? It's terrible. They hate Russia.

He has led an extraordinary life. He was exiled as a baby by Josef Stalin and has spent over10 years in Soviet jails for supporting the rights of his people. Now, 70, he is revered by them as an elder statesman.

In early May, after a visit to Kyiv, he was prevented from going home to his family, blocked from setting foot on the Crimean peninsula. Over 1,000 Tatars raced to support him; they are reportedly now under watch.

Meanwhile, the new authorities threatened to dissolve the Crimean Tatar council for “extremist activity.”

www.hurriyetdailynews.com...

That is what life is like for the original inhabitants of Crimea.

Apparently some would beg to differ.

www.quora.com... -a-part-of-Russia-but-do-they-actually-feel-better-Has-their-quality-of-life-improved

“Without Putin Crimea would be independent and at war with Ukraine like Donbass, much worse off than today.

Other candidates who expressed doubts about legality of reunification got a bit less votes in Crimea:

Ksenia Sobchak: 1.88%

Grigory Yavlinsky: 0.56%

I personally did not bother to vote as I was absolutely sure in Putin’s absolutely undisputable victory.

As for life in Crimea it became worse for all kinds of crooks and muslim extremists - and visibly better for average crimeans, including Crimean Tatars whose problems were addressed like never before with Ukraine. Russia is a big federation and it knows how to make minorities happy. Also, Russia builds and invests in Crimea billions and billions, so our unemployment is VERY low and our salaries and pensions became much higher than Ukrainian and close to average Russian level. Our prices are a bit higher than in mainland Russia but that should be resolved by Crimean Bridge which is expected to become operational before 2018 summer. Of course, it would be nice to restore trade with poor Ukraine where food is so much cheaper. Well, at least we still can have cheap Ukrainian labor to help serving Russian tourists during summer time. Ukrainian government made it difficult to cross the border so it makes little sense to spend vacation in Crimea - but these difficulties are not stopping people from visiting Crimea to work in our resorts and restaurants.”

Now, if you’ll look at the link there are plenty opinions on both sides. But no one says it would have been better being murdered by Ukraine without Russian support. As for the rest of Ukraine? They’ve become a failed state.