Trump can not Win in 2020, He will be a one term President

a reply to: TheRedneck

You are truly wise my friend.

The healthcare issue is a tough one, and you are correct about insurance companies.

I have said it before, but it bears repeating.

Trying to superimpose a social program on a capitalistic, for profit health insurance industry is at best woefully inefficient, and at worst a license to steal tax dollars. It is the worst possible solution IMO.

That being said, the collapse of the insurance industrial complex would also come with several negative ramifications, in the short term.

From a Liberal newspaper but interesting:

Why Trump Will Lose in 2020

"The president is running hard on a strategy of riling up his base. But by doing that, he riles up the Democratic base, too, and that one is bigger.

With several major Democratic primary candidates having declared, the palace intrigue of America’s 2020 presidential election is already in nearly full swing. But what if I were to tell you that barring a significant unforeseen shock to the system, the outcome of 2020 is already set in stone?...........

Yet a key aspect of polarization has been somewhat overlooked: negative partisanship. Voters with this attitude are mobilized not by love of their own party so much as by hatred of the opposition party. Negative partisanship especially benefits the party that doesn’t hold the presidency, because out-party voters find themselves living in a world where their political preferences are under constant assault, or at least appear to be so...........

See whole article here:
www.nytimes.com...

a reply to: Mach2

...the collapse of the insurance industrial complex would also come with several negative ramifications, in the short term.

President Donald Trump comes with short term negative ramifications... but much greater long term benefits. I said well before the election that if he was elected, it would be both the greatest thing to happen to our country and the most pain we have ever felt. Seems I may have been correct.

Have you ever had a deep splinter? I get them all the time woodworking. As soon as I feel the pain, I pull the thing out. Sometimes it is too deep for that, so I have to use tweezers. And then, once in a while, even tweezers are not enough. I have to lance the entry point with a needle or even make a small incision in my own finger to get it out. It hurts! It hurts very much badly!

But think what happens if I don't get it out. After a few days, the area around the splinter will become swollen and red and painful. If I continue to leave it in, an infection will likely set up and make it even more painful. Eventually, if I keep trying to not get the splinter out, it could set up gangrene and I could lose my finger.

The longer I leave it in, the more it hurts to take it out, but the more critical it becomes that I do take it out.

Our country has been plagued with splinters called "corruption" for many decades now. These splinters set up infections and became more painful to deal with every passing year. Trump is lancing those splinters, and it hurts very much badly! But gangrene is setting in and they have to be dealt with. Even the pain that he brings is preferable to losing our country.

Likewise, healthcare is full of splinters, mostly from the insurance racket. Those have to be lanced at some point. Doing so will be painful, but not doing so will wind up being much, much worse.

TheRedneck

a reply to: AlienView

I read the OP and I am baffled, you have already excepted socialism... what else are you willing to except to get what you suggest are humane causes? I can only shake my head. Maybe it is ok to silence opposing view points, maybe it is ok to use federal agencies to silence desenters, maybe it's alright if the media uses its podium to sway elections with bogus news. Maybe soon we need to dictate that the people can no longer be trusted to choose their leaders.

Just shaking my head

originally posted by: onthedownlow
a reply to: AlienView

I read the OP and I am baffled, you have already excepted socialism... what else are you willing to except to get what you suggest are humane causes? I can only shake my head. Maybe it is ok to silence opposing view points, maybe it is ok to use federal agencies to silence desenters, maybe it's alright if the media uses its podium to sway elections with bogus news. Maybe soon we need to dictate that the people can no longer be trusted to choose their leaders.

Just shaking my head

That is the barebones crux of the situation, isn't it.

Some ppl would prefer to relinquish their right of self determination, and freedom, therefore their responsibility, for some non existent utopia where no worries, or problems exist.

Well, frankly, I say the hell with that BS.

a reply to: AlienView

LOL..that's essentially the same story the LA Times ran in October 2016.

Which reminds me of one popular definition of "insanity".

This is NOT the Mud Pit!!!

All rules for polite political debate will be enforced.
Reaffirming Our Desire For Productive Political Debate (REVISED)

You are responsible for your own posts.....those who ignore that responsibility will face mod actions.


and, as always:

Do NOT reply to this post!!

a reply to: r0xor

originally posted by: xpert11
a reply to: r0xor

The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

The actions of Trump's detractors are the source of his greatest political capital gains. The false allegations against now Justice Kavanaugh, and the insane and unfounded Trump collusion with Russia conspiracy are both unsuccessful propaganda campaigns. Voters may not like Trump, but will they knowingly vote for further propaganda campaigns ? Any person who voted for the Democrats in the mid term elections voted for mob rule, a two tied justice system and propaganda campaigns.


This is why Trump's presidency has not self destructed in spite of a number of self inflicted political wounds. Trump is a combination of MacArthur style megalomania and Jacksonian tendencies. Yet his opposition is blinded by hatred and denial of Hillary losing the 2016 election. They have no clue how to rebuke Trump's failings, including his absence of understanding his own role as President of the United States of America.

Any Democrat who wanted to contrast themselves from Trump missed the chance to so during the 2017- 18 hurricane season. Spending time away the media spotlight with those made homeless, not turning post hurricane stops into campaign speeches, and not attacking Trump in the wake of his own missteps. Lead by example in and out of the public spotlight, this is the basis of sound leadership. In today's world of smartphone cameras and social media anybodies bad or good deeds are rarely out of the spotlight.

The 2020 Democratic presidential primary season may well act as political apprenticeships for future presidents, senators and state governors.

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.

Maybe?

I was one of Trump's most ardent supporters during the 2016 campaign - And those of you who remember my posts
here on ATS know this is fact - I was one of those independents who thought Hillary would have been a disaster
- I guess we will never know - And yet the Clintonistas rule under Bill was a disgrace and Hillary would have .........?

But Trump's ego, though making a good show is not Presidential - The insults against other Republicans to win the
nomination is understandable - but against individuals with physical disabilities or how people look who oppose him
is not acceptable - even though his supporters seem to accept it - Yes it is sometimes humorous but not
good politics in the long run -- It worked against Hillary but we might wonder if it might backfire next time,
especially if the Dems put up a candidate who knows how to fight back.

Ronald Reagan was a movie actor and I've said he played his greatest role as President - And that is not meant
as an insult - He knew how to act Presidential, not an easy role to play - But Trump continues to play the game
of divide and conquer and I think people might be fed up with it.

This country is dangerously divided politically - Trump made statements during the last campaigns that
might have had us believe he woud be a unifier, but he is much more a divider than a unifier, IMHO

So as i said in the OP 'if' the Democrats come up with a moderate and a fighter - He [or she] will win.

a reply to: AlienView

a reply to: AlienView

The insults against other Republicans to win the nomination is understandable - but against individuals with physical disabilities or how people look who oppose him is not acceptable - even though his supporters seem to accept it

That is not exactly true. The reporter Trump was referring to was indeed disabled, but the mannerisms Trump used were used by him previously (and since) against non-disabled individuals. The pattern of use indicates they are intended to poke fun at someone who shows themselves mentally incapable of doing their job. Anyone who actually looks at the issue would see that; someone who does not dig deeper, however, will not. And this is the true danger we face as a society: the attribution of individual biases on the basis of flimsy evidence repeated ad infinitum.

There is not a single person, you, me, no one, who could withstand that kind of dishonest scrutiny. Thus, whoever controls the media controls society in such an arrangement. Whoever controls society is in effect a slave master to those unable to defend themselves.

And as stated above, there is no one who can defend themselves against the onslaught of media-induced public anger.

The first line of my signature since I first put up a signature has always been "Be careful what you ask for; you just might get it." The other lines have changed from time to time, but that one has always remained the same. There's a reason for that; often people tend to crave the very things that will destroy what they hold dearest. That applies here. You apparently hold dear respect for everyone, which is a noble goal. Yet, you listen to the media interpretation of an incident. That media does not hold dear the same things you do; that media holds dear profit... pure profit. Money. Green paper that the love of which is responsible for many of the very ills you denounce, and yet you (along with millions of others; I am not blaming you solely for this) happily go along with whatever the media says.

Stop for a moment and ask yourself, not Don Lemon or Anderson Cooper, ask yourself: am I listening to those who share my views, or to those who falsely claim to share my views? Actions are worth thousand of words.

Ronald Reagan was a movie actor and I've said he played his greatest role as President - And that is not meant
as an insult - He knew how to act Presidential, not an easy role to play - But Trump continues to play the game
of divide and conquer and I think people might be fed up with it.

Yes, Reagan was an actor and he did indeed play his part well... and that, IMO, was his biggest liability. While I believe he did feel strongly about the values he tried to instill in the government, he was also playing a part. He was looking at the impact his words would have on the audience. That's what actors do.

Trump has similarities to Reagan in many of his policies, but not in his words or manners. Perhaps that is a good thing. We have had "Presidential" Presidents for quite some time now, and during that time we have seen everything from wars to interference with other countries to inflation to recession to corruption to the outright killing of Americans on American soil. When something does not work, perhaps it is time to try something different. A Lamborghini Countach in bright red paint looks awesome in one's driveway, but it's not going to help one plant a garden... one needs a tractor for that, even if it's not shiny and pretty.

What I am trying to say is to look at the actions and results, not the words. Words are fleeting and impotent; actions are eternal and useful.

This country is dangerously divided politically - Trump made statements during the last campaigns that
might have had us believe he woud be a unifier, but he is much more a divider than a unifier, IMHO[

Is he?

The political divide has existed for long before Trump ever stepped onto that escalator. It actually began before I was born... probably before the country was founded. One could easily say that under the Trump administration the divide has deepened, but one should remember when saying such that a single person cannot divide others. It takes two to tango.

It is not possible to unite people when the people do not want to be united. We are at a place ion our history where we do not want to be united... at least some of us do not. That some of us would be the MSM and those who listen to it. I used to think that any suggestion of political bias from a news network would be subjective at best, but since 2016 we have seen such vitriolic coverage of our President in the media that it can actually be quantified! For every angry tweet Donald Trump has typed out, there are likely 100 hours of rabid hatred toward him being aired across the nation by the media. I shudder to think how many hours have been spent trying to convince the pubic that Trump is blood brother to Vladimir Putin... and the final report, authored by someone who is a lifelong friend of the guy Trump fired, using an oppositional group of investigators, just revealed that all that news coverage was false. All those hours of being told how evil Brett Kavanaugh is were proved to be false. The accusers of Judge Roy Moore disappeared as soon as the election was over, just as he predicted, but the coverage of the media was so biased against him that his reputation may be eternally damaged.

Is that the world you want to live in?

if so, there is no hope for unification outside servitude in that world. One side of the political divide is so hell-bent on destroying the other that they will not unite no matter what. I place the blame there.

TheRedneck

originally posted by: AlienView
But can the Liberals go so far left that they alienate everyone? - Probably not.



I believe many Liberal causes have merit - Universal health care for everywhere is standard in the other major nations of the World - England, Canada, etc.


But Trump has a more serious problem - Yes, he is a good showman, but he is lousy politician - He started off by alienating a good part of
the Republican Party to win the nomination for President -

And this is the danger we are all facing - Trump, more than anyone else in recent history, has pushed the Democratic party further left than
it has eve been.

for you see that was the hope we all had for Donald Trump - But he has failed.

So many things about this I disagree with. You are claiming that Trump has pushed the Democrat Party farther left. No I’m sorry they did that all by themselves (albeit with Soros money). They are responsible for their own positions. Next: It was reported that a fairly large number of Democrats attended the Trump rally in Michigan. They know because the phone numbers of people who attended showed them as having been registered. Either lots of Democrats are just curious, or concertedly propping up his numbers??? Or they are vacating the radical positions of the Democrat Party. I welcome those who leave that kind of craziness. Now on to Universal healthcare. It may seem like it has merit, because yah we all need healthcare and it sounds compassionate. But the reality is that government run healthcare is inefficient and unsustainable. It was recently reported in the news that the healthcare system of Finland has collapsed. That is one of the countries touted by liberals as being successful as a socialist country. Maybe not so much in reality. Next: your assertion that Trump is merely a showman who turned off his GOP competitors. That happens in primaries. Take Hillary for example. Frankly I don’t mind if he turns off RINOS, communists, Socialists, pedophiles, crazy Hoywood, and people who want to come to the US just to take advantage of the welfare state or because they believe on reconquista and some Marxist told them to come and crash the borders. RINOS are globalists in GOP
Clothing. I used to like Marco Rubio but he’s more like a turncoat. And he got money from Soros so there’s that. The never Trumpers are foolish and self-serving.
The truth is that Trump is an action person and has done many things to reverse some of the encroachment by the globalists.
Oh yah, and just because something is popular in many countries doesn’t make it good, right, or desirable. In fact socialism is a disaster everywhere it’s been implemented. Venezuela is a perfect example of socialist crash and burn. They even overtook the old Soviet Union In crash and burn status.
Now you also claim that Trump has failed. Well failed at what exactly ? He started a peace process with NKorea, he’s brought numerous countries to the table for renegotiation of trade deals putting America back on track (former deals were unfair to the US and people took advantage and that was the fault of international globalists with no national loyalty ), he cut taxes across the board, he got us out of the Paris Climate Accord which I applaud because it’s nothing but part of the totslitarian Agenda 21 Green New Deal. Now he’s stopped payments to countries which are sending giant caravans of people to invade our country as foot soldiers for the globalist One World Order. He opened the embassy in Jerusalem. So many things I cannot enumerate them all off hand. Oh he recently signed an EO to address the possibility of damage to the infrastructure by emp. So far I thinks he’s the only POTUS to do that. He also is rebuilding the military and getting rid of ISIS ( which Obama really created).
So unless you’re a Progressive or liberal Democrat, hes taken great strides in putting America back on track to greatness. He has also gotten the economy back on track Nd our if the eternal recession created by more than one President. Still much more to do... I’m expecting to see him get us back on a gold backed dollar ... but that’s another story.

originally posted by: AlienView
But can the Liberals go so far left that they alienate everyone? - Probably not.

I am no longer sure of what goals the Democrats have for the long run - Do they seriously believe Americans will accept Socialism?

I believe many Liberal causes have merit - Universal health care for everywhere is standard in the other major nations of the World - England, Canada, etc. Why do Republicans resist it so much? - A good education, including college, is a no brainer for all
[...]

EPIC. I called the 2016 election, and will do so again. Trump 2020, and EPIC!! SLAUGHTER, no matter who the Dems put on the ticket.

The issue is, with the Mueller which hunt finally getting behind us, you will start to see referrals made to the DOJ to look into the criminal conduct of the score of liberals that started and perpetuated this mess.

The dems are already targeting Creepy Uncle Joe, taking him out of play early, and I doubt that any of the little fish running will actually survive. That will leave Bernie as the front runner, and he will most likely pick one of the current little fish as his VP. Booker is out, he will want a woman on the ticket.

Besides, anyone else notice that Killary has been quiet as a church mouse since the Mueller report came out? Me thinks she is hunkering down, waiting for the axe to fall. I want to know what her USSS detaill will do when the FBI shows up to arrest her. "Yep, there ya go, she's all yours!!!"

Anyway, over the next 2ish years you will start to see charges leveled against prominent democratic leaders, which is going to do a radical amount of damage to them, ensuring a Trump victory in 2020.

Take it to the bank.

Fred..

a reply to: ThirdEyeofHorus

Bernie wants to model the US system after Finland's, he's used it as a shining example for us.

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: ThirdEyeofHorus

Bernie wants to model the US system after Finland's, he's used it as a shining example for us.

He is a radical communist... what else can be said.

a reply to: ThirdEyeofHorus

Bernie wants to model the US system after Finland's, he's used it as a shining example for us.
He is a radical communist... what else can be said.

Maybe not Communist - But yes far, probably too far, left to win - Socialism had many proponents throghout the US
History and it never triumphs.

But, talking about Socialism - I used to be a used book dealer and read many books over the years,

One of the most interesting was a book titled "The Money Game" by Adam Smith [a pseudonym].

Why do I remember this book, and especially one quote: Smith said our economic system was "Socialism of the Rich'

SOCIALISM OF THE RICH - True? - Doesn't Donale Trump really respresstnt the rich - Big Business, a corporate
autocracy of the rich and privileged ? - No?

He certainly does not represent the poor working stiff who can not afford decent medical care, does he?


But maybe I'm wrong in saying Trump is not a good politician - Maybe he and his supporters are geniuses
who bedazzled the American public - Maybe, just maybe, it was Trump they always wanted as the nominee in 2016
- the rest of the Republican primary was 'smoke and mirrors".

So this election will boil down to two candidates representing a similar, but diametrically, opposed Socialism.

Donald Trump representing the rich Socialist elite vx. Bernie Sanders [or?] represinting everyone else.

a reply to: AlienView

That entire post just confused me on several different levels.

SOCIALISM OF THE RICH - True? - Doesn't Donale Trump really respresstnt the rich - Big Business, a corporate
autocracy of the rich and privileged ? - No?

He certainly doesn't act like it. His tax cut plan was across the board. It stimulated business so the poor could have jobs and income to pull themselves up with. His economy now has the lowest minority unemployment rate in history. He wants to secure the border... who is being hurt by the influx of illegal aliens? Certainly not the rich; they benefit from lower labor rates. The working class are the ones being hurt by illegal aliens.

I don't even know what this "socialism of the rich" is supposed to mean. It makes absolutely no sense. The entire idea of socialism is based around a central government giving to the impoverished and/or downtrodden because they are economically disadvantaged. How can you then apply it to the economically advantaged?

And moreso, why would anyone who can afford the luxuries of life even want a central government dictating what they get for free? That is simply ludicrous! The whole point of having money is that one can get what they want. No central government gives people what they want individually... it is always a rationed, lower-quality gift.

And no, this not "a different type of socialism." Don't even go there. If it is not socialism, do not call it socialism. If you call it socialism, expect people to apply socialist connotations to it.

Adam Smith needs to stop with the drugs, man.

But maybe I'm wrong in saying Trump is not a good politician - Maybe he and his supporters are geniuses
who bedazzled the American public - Maybe, just maybe, it was Trump they always wanted as the nominee in 2016
- the rest of the Republican primary was 'smoke and mirrors".

Maybe you and I are considering the term "politician" differently... if you mean he ran for public office and won the election, then yes, Trump is a successful politician... maybe the most successful of all time. But if you mean someone who lies to get into office then does nothing they promised (and often the opposite of what they promised), where have you been? No politician in my memory, Federal, Alabama, or local, has ever come close to accomplishing the number of campaign promises Donald Trump has.

The Republican campaign was not "smoke and mirrors." It was a normal political race between several different candidates (and Trump was not even my first choice originally). If anything, it was a very transparent race. Ted Cruz' glitch to try and make voters think Ben Carson had dropped out? That certainly wasn't hidden... and was the reason I dropped Cruz in favor of Trump. On the other hand, just how much evidence and coincidence do you need to believe the Democratic primaries were rigged from the start? Skywriting from God? Hillary coming to your house and confessing on tape while you watch?

Donald Trump representing the rich Socialist elite vx. Bernie Sanders [or?] represinting everyone else.

Well, I am certainly not rich, and I am here to tell you that Bernie Sanders does not represent me in any way, shape, form, or fashion! So no, it will not come down to the characteristic you suggest, because that characteristic makes so many false assumptions as to make me wonder how much the author has been drinking.

TheRedneck

This is the funniest OP I’ve seen in a while

The next six years are going to be very difficult for you.