Jackson was and is (most likely) innocent.

All signs point to yes.

But actual physical evidence?

That's the way this reality operates.

originally posted by: Guiltyguitarist
a reply to: toolgal462

We will never know what really happened between the two. We do know that he had tons of young boys in his bed. Even after losing tens of millions of dollars he still had young boys in his bed. I don’t care how good he could dance, I’ve got a child of my own. The fbi thing you keep spouting is a lie also. The fbi provided resources to local law enforcement on two different occasions ten years apart. That is a big difference between the fbi investigating him for ten years.
Forget about prying open your third eye and see what is in front of your two eyes.

No, you forget about trying to convince me of BS that I know is not true. The FBI had NO EVIDENCE of MJ committing crimes against any children and you are flat out lying.

The only honest thing you ever said about this is that we can never really know.

You only BELIEVE what you want.

I don't believe one way or another but I know that he was tried in the courts and exonerated and now he is DEAD.

So this business of smearing the man after he is dead is disgusting. Especially since the 2 accusers are asking for 1.5 billion from the Jackson estate.

Who is the blind one?

and try not to lie when responding. There was NEVER any evidence of any crimes. The FBI never had any and they never gave any evidence to the SB prosecuter, Tom Sneddon. So cut it out.

originally posted by: Lysergic
a reply to: toolgal462

Did I say he was crusader?

Well, then why did you comment? What is this thread about? Michael Jackson's guilt or innocence, right?

I think he molested kids but here comes the clincher, I believe he did that on a peer level. Kind of he really thought he was amongst his own. He had a very childlike way about him and I really can see how young boys [including Mr Jackson] kind of 'have it off' together.
I think he didn't imagine himself as an adult.
Having watched many interviews with him, I think that's what happened.
A Peter Pan Paedo. [PPP]

a reply to: toolgal462

Did he or did he not pay Jordan chandler $25,000,000?
You think Chandler didn’t have any evidence? Twenty. Five. Million. Dollars.

OJ was tried and found not guilty as well. Same lawyer as MJ.

originally posted by: Guiltyguitarist
a reply to: toolgal462

Did he or did he not pay Jordan chandler $25,000,000?
You think Chandler didn’t have any evidence? Twenty. Five. Million. Dollars.

OJ was tried and found not guilty as well. Same lawyer as MJ.

He paid Chandler because he was advised by lawyers to do so. However, not only did he regret it for the rest of his life but the agreement stated that the Chandlers could still file criminal charges if they wanted to.

So tell me, why didn't they file those criminal charges if he was guilty? Because they didn't care that MJ molested their kid because now they had $25 million bucks?

Yah, they were credible.

And Johnnie Cochran was one of Oj's lawyers and was one of MJ's lawyers but it was Thomas Messereau who was the lead defense attorney for Jackson.

Do you know who was the first character witness for the defense? I'll give you 2 guesses and spot you the first guess ....It wasn't Jimmy Safechuck.

Wade Robeson was grilled by prosecutors under oath and he never wavered about MJ's innocence. And he was a grown ass man by this time, not a scared child.

I think you should actually get your facts straight about the entire case before you go posting lies and insisting proven lies are now "facts".

a reply to: toolgal462

Ok. Michael was a saint and Tool can play in other keys besides D minor. I’ve got a life to get back to

originally posted by: Guiltyguitarist
a reply to: toolgal462

Ok. Michael was a saint and Tool can play in other keys besides D minor. I’ve got a life to get back to

Adam Jones could play circles around you I am sure.

And I never claimed MJ was a saint either. I simply stated that there is and never was any actual proof that the man committed any crimes of a sexual nature against children.

Accusations are not proof of anything. And none of those accusers are saints either. Nor are their parents.

And truthfully, it's the parents that are at fault here. Always has been.

a reply to: toolgal462

Parents who allowed their preteen
sons sleep in his bed at Neverland?
A mature male in bed with a boy?
Sure sounds fishy and some of
those boys will someday realize
what happened to then in his bed.

He's guilty.

originally posted by: toolgal462

originally posted by: Guiltyguitarist
a reply to: toolgal462

Ok. Michael was a saint and Tool can play in other keys besides D minor. I’ve got a life to get back to

Adam Jones could play circles around you I am sure.

Hahahahahaha. Cough. Hahahahaha.
No. Just no.


Guthrie Govan, yes. Nuno Bettencourt, yes. John Petrucci, yes.
Adam Jones?? Lmao. No, I’m a real guitarist.

originally posted by: Guiltyguitarist

originally posted by: toolgal462

originally posted by: Guiltyguitarist
a reply to: toolgal462

Ok. Michael was a saint and Tool can play in other keys besides D minor. I’ve got a life to get back to

Adam Jones could play circles around you I am sure.

Hahahahahaha. Cough. Hahahahaha.
No. Just no.

Guthrie Govan, yes. Nuno Bettencourt, yes. John Petrucci, yes.
Adam Jones?? Lmao. No, I’m a real guitarist.

You think Adam can't play? The man was classically trained and just because you might prefer a different style than Tool music I am quite sure that Adam is quite capable of playing *again* circles around you.

Then again, you can easily prove it if you claim otherwise. Love to see your videos or hear your grammy winning playing.

a reply to: toolgal462
Adam was lucky enough to trip on ac1d with Maynard and Danny. That’s it. I have a degree in classical and jazz performance, have had three record deals and toured the country several times. I also have shot several videos and played many coliseums and arenas. I admit Tool is much more successful than my bands, but I refuse to concede that he has more talent because he doesn’t. He is mediocre at best. I wish to remain anonymous as it wouldn’t be in my best interest to do otherwise just to prove to some random tool fan I’m a better player than Adam. Most professional guitarist are. I will give You a hint though. I’ve been signed to the same labels as Shinedown, Three doors down, Saving Abel, and Hinder. My biggest tour was with Seether. My biggest show was for 25,000 people.We played with black stone cherry, and molly hatchet. I met Dave from megadeth backstage at that one. Justin Rimer from 12 stones and breaking point engineered my last record. But This thread is about Michael Jackson and his preference for young boys. I can’t believe I’m arguing the point. In other news water is wet

a reply to: Iconic

Who cares... seriously?

a reply to: Iconic

What I never understood was why all those people when asked to testify were allowed not too because they had signed no disclosure agreements. If you are asked to testify in a criminal case should that not make nda null and void? But yes I believe he was very guilty of stuff he was accused of . The Jesus juice in the coke cans were found to be true. Also Mr Jackson himself was most likely abused by Joe Jackson throughout his childhood which also probably led his sexual abuse of those kids because he was in control. I like fine art and artful photography but why would you hunt down a rare book of naked young boys from a homosexual photographer made in the 1930s? The whole reason such a stink being made is because people controlling his song catalog and rights to his likeness are afraid of losing revenue period.

originally posted by: Guiltyguitarist
He wanted to be a white woman.

Nah. looking at his features shape, the name of his property. 'Neverland'. His house being filled with Peter Pan paraphenalia.
I think it is pretty clear he wanted to be Peter Pan. Not a white woman.
He wanted to be and was the little boy who never grew up.

Was he a pedo? Only him and his 'alleged' victims know.

Me? I think he was a grown ass man just trying to forever capture the child hood he missed out on.

Yes he was creepy as hell, a bit of a weirdo compared to most adults, but I honestly think he never sexually molested any kids and he certainly was not 'trans'.
He just did not know how to 'adult'. From all I have seen the guy was mentally a child himself.

It's just most adults cannot rationalize an adult having sleep overs with kids so of course it is sexual....

Was/Is the problem with Jackson or with the external viewer relying perception?
Is it a case of something is there, or that people want there to be something there because in their own minds there is?

Sadly we'll never truly know as dead men cannot speak and money and fame/attention has a habit of making even the most saintly person unreliable as a witness.

End of the day. Does it even matter? Guy is dead. Even is he was a pedophile he isn't harming anyone anymore.
Maybe we should focus on current issues and threats to children from the living.

This whole thing is quite literally 'beating a dead horse' at this point.

a reply to: andyr1112

ow many charges were filed // prosecutions made - based on the alledged evidence your police aquaintance found in his // her official search ?

I'm 50/50. On one hand he fits the bill, abused as a child, no childhood etc, on the other hand there is plenty of people out there that would lie about it off there was money to be made..

originally posted by: OccamsRazor04
a reply to: andyr1112

That's just not true. No bloody underwear was found. I think it is more than likely he did stuff, but there was zero evidence of it found.

Evidence Item #510. Disneyland plastic bag containing underclothes and bloodied bed linens. 

Evidence collected from Jackson's home
So after a quick search (literally found in on the first page of the Google search), it would appear that there wasn't any bloody underwear found but rather underwear and bloody bedding/sheets. Still bad enough when you look at some of the other evidence they found. Each piece on it own wouldnt amount to much, but taken together... well like another poster said "if it talks like a duck, and walks like a duck, then it's got to be a duck!"

originally posted by: AtomicKangaroo

originally posted by: Guiltyguitarist
He wanted to be a white woman.

Nah. looking at his features shape, the name of his property. 'Neverland'. His house being filled with Peter Pan paraphenalia.
I think it is pretty clear he wanted to be Peter Pan. Not a white woman.
He wanted to be and was the little boy who never grew up.

Was he a pedo? Only him and his 'alleged' victims know.

Me? I think he was a grown ass man just trying to forever capture the child hood he missed out on.

Yes he was creepy as hell, a bit of a weirdo compared to most adults, but I honestly think he never sexually molested any kids and he certainly was not 'trans'.
He just did not know how to 'adult'. From all I have seen the guy was mentally a child himself.

It's just most adults cannot rationalize an adult having sleep overs with kids so of course it is sexual....

Was/Is the problem with Jackson or with the external viewer relying perception?
Is it a case of something is there, or that people want there to be something there because in their own minds there is?

Sadly we'll never truly know as dead men cannot speak and money and fame/attention has a habit of making even the most saintly person unreliable as a witness.

End of the day. Does it even matter? Guy is dead. Even is he was a pedophile he isn't harming anyone anymore.
Maybe we should focus on current issues and threats to children from the living.

This whole thing is quite literally 'beating a dead horse' at this point.

Please correct me if I'm wrong but it sound a lot like you are saying that his real victims (if they actually exist), should just suck it up and move on... I am sure most of them would love nothing more than to forget the things that (allegedly) happened to them and just move on with their lives. Sadly they cant and it is having a negative effect on their lives, both in the past and currently (as well as most likely in the future too). They want closure of some kind, though I doubt they will find much, I wish them the best in their endeavors.

a reply to: looneylupinsrevenge

Oh yes, because we all know if it's on the first page of a Google search then it must be true.

NO. Just. NO.