Utrecht shooting: Gunman carries out mass shooting on tram - police on scene

originally posted by: MisterSpock
a reply to: Goedhardt
Is there a "nationalist"/"anti immigration" party that has been doing well/better in the polls as well?

I know that's becoming an increasing issue for a lot of countries in upcoming elections.

Yes, there is 2 actually... The Freedom Party (PVV) and the Forum for Democracy (FvD).

a reply to: 0bserver1

I'm pretty sure Wilders will milk this dry....

Where all other people were talking about a possible terrorist attack this afternoon, he was pretty convinced it was an act of terrorism. But with this guy any crime commited by a foreigner is an act of terrorism....damn populists.

Peace

a reply to: operation mindcrime

I'm not going to speculate what this could be and to what end it will benefit a political agenda. Sure some will use this but for someone with common sense will quickly notice that it seems a one-man sympathizing show of a lunatic that felt to disturb the masses to trigger something.

Sane people from whatever religion will not fall for this..

originally posted by: 0bserver1
a reply to: operation mindcrime

I'm not going to speculate what this could be and to what end it will benefit a political agenda. Sure some will use this but for someone with common sense will quickly notice that it seems a one-man sympathizing show of lunatic that felt to disturb the masses to trigger something.

Sane people from whatever religion will not fall for this..

And like a thief of our sanity they steal off into the night with nary a trace.

I just read that honor killing seems to be the motive of his act.
AD

So the GF cheated on the shooter & he wanted to kill her? A bit of an overreaction for the action, but we've got plenty of examples of guys doing exactly that over here in the US already.

Never involve yourself in domestic altercations, just vacate the area and call the cops in, people. I can understand having no other options in moving transportation, but when the alternative is present, just GTFOT. The squabble isn't worth multiple lives.

a reply to: Nyiah

well it's not your average drunken husband mad that his wife cheated kind-of-stuff..

Honor killings are acts of vengeance, usually death, committed by family members against female family members, who are held to have brought dishonor upon the family. A woman can be targeted by (individuals within) her family for a variety of reasons, including: refusing to enter into an arranged marriage, being the victim of a sexual assault, seeking a divorce—even from an abusive husband—or (allegedly) committing adultery. The mere perception that a woman has behaved in a way that "dishonors" her family is sufficient to trigger an attack on her life

There isn't a really big majority in this country who believes in these values, if you know what I mean.

Peace

a reply to: Nyiah

Yea the probability that some bystanders started to interfere could be why he shot them too?
But this doesn't justify any good of it all brutally killing those victims.

originally posted by: 0bserver1
a reply to: Nyiah

Yea the probability that some bystanders started to interfere could be why he shot them too?

Actually quite possible. I've locked up and called 911 instead of involving myself several times in domestic disputes at work, and once at home. One in particular at work (hotel) and the one at home were kind of the straw on the back for no s#s given coming to fruition.

In the case of the one at work, a guest was chasing his GF through the hotel parking lot with a loaded gun threatening to shoot anyone who "shoved their noses where they don't belong."
As soon as we noticed, which was more or less right away when people who'd just left started hurrying back inside, it was a concerted effort to phone all rooms with the "Lock Yo Door" auto-call, and telling everyone coming and going to get somewhere safe & lockable & not intervene. One shot person is plenty, you don't need others wounded or worse trying to play hero with an irate & irrational armed person.

The other was my drunk neighbor trying to beat TF out of his equally drunk GF, and it eventually escalated to chasing her around the complex parking lot with a loaded gun. At that point, I was 2 weeks postpartum with a newborn and had ZERO Fs to give. She could bang on my door pleading all night or die on my doorstep for all I cared, that door was. not. opening. Hell, nobody's door did, I think the sentiment was fairly consistent.

In both cases, the 911 operators were extremely pleased with the courses of action taken. Putting yourself in the middle of an armed domestic dispute isn't the wisest thing to do. I have no regrets about how I handed any of violent domestic situations in the past, and doubt I'd change my tactics if I was ever confronted with similar situations again.

a reply to: Nyiah

The other was my drunk neighbor trying to beat TF out of his equally drunk GF, and it eventually escalated to chasing her around the complex parking lot with a loaded gun. At that point, I was 2 weeks postpartum with a newborn and had ZERO Fs to give. She could bang on my door pleading all night or die on my doorstep for all I cared, that door was. not. opening. Hell, nobody's door did, I think the sentiment was fairly consistent.

Sure I would probably do the same if I had to protect my newborn, calling the cops would be the most logical thing to do in a situation like that.

Things like this we see today rarely happen here and owning guns isn't a law we can go by, so I do think that many who were on that tramcar didn't even expect the gun to be real but that's just guessing from my end.

let's hope it will stay calm because I can also imagine after a day like before yesterday he wouldn't give a rats ass who would follow next after his retaliation on that poor girl..

a reply to: Navieko

How are these people getting guns in these tightly gun controlled places? It's almost like criminals and terrorists don't follow the laws.

a reply to: Nyiah

The wise or prudent thing to do isn't always the best course of action. Heroes go against the odds, take a risk, and succeed in doing something for the benefit of others. Don't take this the wrong way, it's a personal choice and I'm not saying what you did was wrong, morally or otherwise.

originally posted by: SprocketUK
Guardian saying he seems to be a serial nutter.
In court for rape, threatening to kill a woman and firing a gun at a block of flats.
Why on earth wasn't he in jail?

Compassion....

Gunman has no relation to the victims , note has been found in wich he writes he acted in the name of Allah.

www.msn.com...ökmen-t-schreef-in-briefje-uit-naam-van-allah-te-handelen/ar-BBUXuFh?ocid=spartandhp


Cannot seem to get the link working both with hard paste and the ATS tool

Here is a quick translate.


The note found in the Gökmen T. flight car states that he acted in the name of Allah at the time of the attack on a Utrecht tram. He also greets his "Muslim brothers" in the letter.
Based on this, combined with the ties of T.'s brother and father with Salafist Muslim movements, the police and the Public Prosecution Service still think of a terrorist attack.
That is what De Telegraaf writes. The note was found in the red Renault Clio that prime suspect T. used after the attack.
Terrorist motive
Because of the discovery of the letter and 'the nature of the facts', the police and the Public Prosecution Service take 'seriously' into account that there is a terrorist motive behind the attack.
A conflict in the relational sphere, such as honor killings, would be much more unlikely since no relationship has been established between the suspect and the victims.


Somehow i disabled the ATS tools , sorry for the mess.

a reply to: TheGreazel

Yeah I also heard that...

Not quite sure what to think of it. Seems a little too convenient...(elections and everthing, never let a good crisis go to waste etc)

Don't these terrorist always have the same M.O. ,cause as much damage as you can and take as many with you before you go and meet Allah.

We'll have to wait what his lawyer has to say..

Peace

originally posted by: RMFX1
a reply to: IkNOwSTuff

It's probably because they aren't allowed to define suspects by race anymore, which is completely ridiculous.

Who is they?


the media?

I heard yesterday on the radio that a Turkish man shot up a tram. That was about a day after it happened.

I guess race and nationality are different, however..... How quick do think suspects should identified by the media?

Before the authorities even know who they are looking for the media should say white man/black man/brown man of so and so descent suspected or is guilty moments after an incident?

Its how so many conspiracies start, media try to get a foot in the door and be the first to report and more often than not there are faults in how its reported in the early stages and then ATS and sites alike all scream "psy-op".

originally posted by: ManBehindTheMask

originally posted by: strongfp
a reply to: TheJesuit

Because the collective mind of the internet is far faster than actual reporters. And since the MSM seems to get crucified for reporting in social media style lately they are probably holding back a little. Just my theory.

Good thats what they should be doing in the first place........News agencies need to focus on be accurate over being "first"

They will always take a gamble and try and be the first because if they are and correct it gives that media broadcaster more credibility which will increase their viewers/ratings.

During 9/11 and ever since, after any event you can scour whats been reported and always find things that either false or half correct, very rarely do media sites/broadcasters repeat any wrong reporting and apologize to their viewers an explain how easy it is to get incorrect or conflicting reports when an incident happens.

more often than not anything reported wrong is usually taken down if its a website, but with TV broadcasting its usually possible to find if anything was reported wrong on air.

The rise of social media like twitter gets stuff out immediately and many times this is what professional reporters/broadcasters are using hoping what they report is correct.

rarely I do hear if its on TV that the broadcaster says its twitter feed that they are relaying to viewers but they do which if they are more often then they need to explain when broadcasting that it is from twitter feed every time they do get their info from there or other social media avenues.

originally posted by: LightSpeedDriver
a reply to: Grambler

Dutch media are reporting that he was trying to kill one person then shot at the people who tried to help the female he was trying to kill. Don't believe the hype.

That is actually quite interesting they would even before they know what his motives were.

One broadcaster saying one thing another website claiming another.

Media push their own BS whether it be because the higher ups and owners of certain media outlets do so to serve whatever agenda they have.

All one should take from early reports is what has happened. A shoting has taken place, a bomb has gone off, etc etc.

If you start hearing the why before they have even caught the who then something fishy is going on,

could be due to numerous reasons but the main one is to get clicks or views.

originally posted by: Grambler
Reports are now saying this is attack was revenge for New Zealand shooting

www.zerohedge.com...

.... your own post then goes on to say it looks like that wasn't the actual case.

originally posted by: InhaleExhale

originally posted by: LightSpeedDriver
a reply to: Grambler

Dutch media are reporting that he was trying to kill one person then shot at the people who tried to help the female he was trying to kill. Don't believe the hype.

That is actually quite interesting they would even before they know what his motives were.

One broadcaster saying one thing another website claiming another.

Media push their own BS whether it be because the higher ups and owners of certain media outlets do so to serve whatever agenda they have.

All one should take from early reports is what has happened. A shoting has taken place, a bomb has gone off, etc etc.

If you start hearing the why before they have even caught the who then something fishy is going on,

could be due to numerous reasons but the main one is to get clicks or views.

It happens on ATS all the time, MSM has a burden of proof, social media doesn't. If MSM doesn't give details before them being verified apparently they are keeping something from us. If someone on MSM makes a speculation based on the facts on hand, then they are pushing their own BS. Someone on ATS spouts their opinion before anything is known at all and they get lots of stars from people who have the same bias - you think that's better?