Illinois Residents Wanted a BIG TAX Governor - Today J.B. Pritzker Delivered a HUGE Tax Increase.

originally posted by: DBCowboy
a reply to: carewemust

You can't dig your way out of a hole.

Dig steps or and incline, but don't bury yourself.

a reply to: Klassified

I'm all for tax reform. But it's like having a Constitutional Convention. It's not ever going to happen. Maybe after the dollar collapses.

a reply to: Bluntone22

Do you think a flat tax is fair to successful people?

a reply to: dfnj2015

Such hyperbole. They should pay the same rates as everyone else on earned income and capital gains.

So if I pay a smaller percentage on my investment income than my earned income, so should they. Of course, people like Warren Buffet make that into a major talking point ... "I pay a lesser rate than my secretary!" ... but he exclusively makes investment income (capital gains) while she makes almost exclusively earned income. Most people, especially middle class, have a mix of the two, and more people than you think live entirely off capital gains in their retirements because that's what retirement money almost always is -- your 401(K) income. So in order to soak people like Warren Buffet at the same rate as his secretary, you will also be hitting your grandma and grandpa in the retirement home too because they're living off their investment income more than their SS income by design.

Most smart people plan for retirement beyond what provisions government makes. But I guess you want grandma to have to eat cat food?

originally posted by: dfnj2015
a reply to: Bluntone22

Do you think a flat tax is fair to successful people?

Why wouldn't it be?

30% of $10,000 is less than 30% of $1,000,000,000,000. So the billionaire is still paying far and away more than the poor one.

a reply to: dfnj2015

Yes.
But taxes are a big ole complicated mess today.

We have many types of "income" that falls under different rules that would have to be addressed.

originally posted by: ketsuko

originally posted by: dfnj2015
a reply to: Bluntone22

Do you think a flat tax is fair to successful people?

Why wouldn't it be?

30% of $10,000 is less than 30% of $1,000,000,000,000. So the billionaire is still paying far and away more than the poor one.

That's the kicker.

A billionaire is worth a billion, he doesnt get paid a billion. He doesnt likely get your standard w2 either.

I know several farmers with 2000 acres farmland.
That land is worth $5k+ per acre.
They have $10 million in land.

Would you tax them like millionaires?

originally posted by: ketsuko

originally posted by: dfnj2015
a reply to: Bluntone22

Do you think a flat tax is fair to successful people?

Why wouldn't it be?

30% of $10,000 is less than 30% of $1,000,000,000,000. So the billionaire is still paying far and away more than the poor one.

The argument against a flat tax is that poorer people are impacted more. If you make 100k, 30k in taxes is far more burdensome on your life than if you make 1 million and pay 300k in taxes.

I dont really have an issue with progressive rates but I think tax code needs to be gutted so that each is essentially a flat tax with no deductions. The rates themselves also need to be much lower. No one should have more than 10 or 15 percent of their income going g to taxes at the fed level.

a reply to: Edumakated

That's an easy solution.
Start the tax burden at $50k....

I always ask this question when it comes to taxes, raising taxes. . .

Is the current government spending the money they already take, wisely?

If so, then we can talk about raising taxes. But if the money is being spent poorly, if there is waste in the spending, then why in the hell would anyone endorse raising taxes?

a reply to: Bluntone22

Yeah, I know. But the point is still there.

Someone who records more net income will pay more under a flat percentage. That's why it's a fair system.

a reply to: ketsuko

Yeah, I like the flat rate.
Just like sales tax..

a reply to: Edumakated

I get that argument too.

But start messing with the formula too much, and you end up with what we have now. Once you give one group a break, that opens to the door for the next constituency to whine that they were almost as deserving to receive a break too, and we're off to the races picking winners and loser and writing in exemptions all over again.

I chose 30% because it's close to what many of us pay at the federal level.

originally posted by: DBCowboy
I always ask this question when it comes to taxes, raising taxes. . .

Is the current government spending the money they already take, wisely?

If so, then we can talk about raising taxes. But if the money is being spent poorly, if there is waste in the spending, then why in the hell would anyone endorse raising taxes?

This is my fundamental issue. As a high earner, I always get the brunt of any tax increase. I told my wife about the proposed increase last night.

I dont mind paying taxes, but my issue is that I dont see any discipline when it comes to spending. It is like how if you ask someone to borrow money for an emergency, but then they notice you just bought a new car last week or some other frivolous item. We start to question if it is really an emegency.

Politicians problem is that they can't say no and once they start spending on something, they never go back and cut it off. Everytime they try to you get cries about how disastrous it would be so the can keeps getting kicked down the road and the debt rising.

We need constitutional amendments that lock a budget down... so if you want to spend X on something, then you need to reduce Ys budget so that X is paid for... make politicians prioritize.

originally posted by: dfnj2015
a reply to: JAGStorm

People who refuse to pay taxes or pay nothing based on loopholes are not exactly a great loss. Why is losing people having no pride or commitment to where they live important?

If you think the rich in Illinois aren't paying taxes that is funny. Some might say they have the most pride or commitment as they are the ones providing jobs, development, growing communities. It sure isn't the poor or those on welfare doing it.

It is a great loss when the rich leave, if you don't believe that read up on white flight and what that did to neighborhoods, and that wasn't even fraction of the wealth. Illinois is on the verge of collapse, but if the rich leave it will just hasten it.

a reply to: Edumakated

This is my fundamental issue. As a high earner, I always get the brunt of any tax increase. I told my wife about the proposed increase last night.

Years ago kids went to a YMCA. We didn't qualify for any "breaks" because we made too much. I would say 75% of the kids on their sports team there were on scholarships, or free. Whenever there was an event they asked us, the 25% to donate drinks food etc. They asked me to make cupcakes for an event. I was ok with this for a while but then they totally took advantage of it. They eventually asked me to make twelve dozen cupcakes for an event. Yes, 144 cupcakes. So instead of asking everyone to do their fair share, or even donate, they asked the people they perceived to be rich to do it all. Of course I'm happy to help out, but let's face it, twelve dozen cupcakes here, high taxes there, etc, it all adds up, and it isn't fair. What the heck are we working so hard for?

That is exactly like these taxes and how people perceive those richer than them. It is assumed, OH they make enough they shouldn't be greedy.

What they don't understand is that we are usually not "rich" we are responsible. We save for emergencies, for retirement, for our kids education. It seems like a million different hands want to get into those "riches"

a reply to: Edumakated

Even constitutional amendments won't help. You see how highly regarded those have become on the federal level. There are two in the top ten that are just paid lip service to now.

Law means nothing with no will to enforce it, and do you honestly think politicians would want to enforce any kind of balanced budget measures? really enforce them?

a reply to: JAGStorm

That is a problem too. Everyone looks at the next guy up the chain who has more and says he's rich, bu they don't live his life or work his budget to know.

Do we have more than many of our neighbors? Yes. Are we rich? No. Do they think we are? Yes.

Kids at my sons school have called him rich because he always has money on his lunch card, and we make sure he can buy a couple ice cream treats per week at lunch if he wants them. That's not rich. It's budget management on our part. If he started to abuse the privilege, we'd yank that money and cut him off. But for some kids, that's a luxury their parents either can't or won't extend them.

But people see things they don't have and think if you do, you must be rich and they extend all the thoughts to you that come with that. They figure that if they lived your life or had your money, they could do or have all the things they can't in their present circumstance, but they don't really know. They're operating out of ignorance.

In the new Michigan gas tax only 55% goes to the highways. So no!!

originally posted by: dfnj2015

originally posted by: neo96
a reply to: dfnj2015

Local,STATE issues.

Besides the gas tax,property tax, and lotteries all fund those.

But thank you for showing us the truth.

MAKE SOMEONE ELSE shell out for it.

The billionaires benefit from the commons more than anyone else. Are you suggesting we have zero taxes for people with the greatest means to pay taxes. I read the average billionaire or multi-million spends at most 22 million dollars per year.

"The youngest of Sam Walton's children, Alice Walton, 68, is reportedly worth $40.5 billion. Her elaborate $500 million art collection and donation of $225 million in Walmart shares to the Walton Family Foundation in 2016 were two major components of raising the family's overall wealth, the Sunday Times reports."

I am curious, do you support any form of taxation in order to support the commonwealth?

Without taxation supporting the commons the dollar becomes worthless. The billionaires have the greatest amount of interest in making sure they can redeem their inheritance...uh...hard work.

How do billionaires benefit more than anyone? If anything they probably cost the least in terms of usage of services/systems....

Think about it. Free school lunch? Hospital ER? Police calls? Fire calls? WIC? SNAP? College tuition breaks? Pensions?
Nope. Nope. Nope. Nope. If you look at who uses most state level services, I will guarantee it will be highly concentrated in the lower income groups. The middle and upper classes by in large get ZERO from those services.

Tax rates need to be low enough so that the cost of avoidance is not worth the headache. Right now, we are crossing a point where avoidance starts to make sense.

In addition, we are taxing people on income, not wealth. The people that get hit the hardest are not billionaires as they usually do not have a lot of "wage earner" income. The people hurt are your everyday working stiffs like doctors, lawyers, middle managers, etc. People who may earn say $200k or more a year, but get a w2. These are not "rich" people by any stretch. Believe it or not, many are living paycheck to paycheck too.

My wife and I have a fairly high household income. Call it a 1%er income. However, we have to live in a high cost area. In addition, by the time we pay property taxes, daycare, fund 529s for kid's college, put money away for 401ks (since we don't have guaranteed pensions), etc. We really don't have a ton of money left over each month.

Sure, we aren't broke by any stretch, but we do have to watch what we spend and certainly aren't living the "high life". If our tax liability goes up $10k, it will affect our spending habits negatively.