I Don't Think Many Swedes Believe Muslims Are Peaceful And Tolerant People

originally posted by: Vroomfondel
andy and scot,

I pity you both. Your combined lack of knowledge and unwillingness to learn is staggering. If it makes you feel better to assert that I am afraid then have at it. Anyone who knows me at all knows that isn't true. But if calling it all make believe and convincing yourselves that Christians are no different than muslims and muslims have no desire to kill or convert infidels, then have at it. Clearly it is something you need desperately to believe.

Don't assume that you are correct in any of this. But feel free to assume you have much to learn. You do.

I think the simpler explanation is that you are uneducated and probably highly susceptible to propaganda. Your bigotry might be routed in fear or it might just be from stupidity, frankly either way it's your problem not mine.

Sorry if that seems harsh but I have given up on trying to be nice to the racist & bigots who infest this site.

Go outside, breath in some fresh air and maybe talk to real people. It will do you good.

originally posted by: ScepticScot


Yes the culture in middle east is very different and in many cases and in many ways much worse than ours.

That doesn't mean all muslims think/act/believe exactly the same as Vroom appears to think.

Of course not, but as I said it is a numbers game here in you need X to be a small problem, XX to be bigger, XXXX to be a country wide problem. I don't know what the numbers should be, but at some point it becomes a huge country wide issue, and in a place like Sweden with vastly different cultures how many of the 150,000 immigrants they have does it take to be a huge problem?

Seems they have reached that point...

a reply to: Xtrozero

If Sweden is anything like the UK, then its population is aging beyond its ability to replace itself adequately as the generations progress.

To be honest most of our western civilizations could do with the influx of new people who breed more than just 2.4 children.

Not to mention the new genetically diverse material they bring to our gene pool when we breed with them.

The futures just people buddy, race colour and religion, are all just back of the bus these days.

andy and scot,

I want to point out something that apparently you two rocket scientists missed. I have been addressing muslims and the primary goal of the religion. You have been addressing me. I have seen dozens, probably hundreds of websites, devoted to making this information available to the public. Instead of educating yourselves, you attack me and spend your time fantasizing about me and my life. Of course you know absolutely nothing about me but that doesn't seem to stop you from talking about me anyway. You throw in an occasional 'probably' to make it sound speculative but your tone and the manner of your comments suggests you think you really know what you are talking about. You do not. Not even close.

You have tried in vain to change the topic of the conversation, obfuscate and deny, and just plain lie. And it has gotten you nowhere. Why not try a little grown up truth? It will be nice to try something new...

Everyone knows that one of the primary goals of islam is to convert non-believers. It is also as commonly known that those who refuse to convert must be eliminated. It is also known, though not by you, that these laws are immutable within islam. As is taqiyyah, the method of muslims deceiving infidels to gain their trust. This is not made up, it is in print and every real muslim knows it. I say real musim because in this country we have a bunch of sjw idiots who put on a scarf and run around calling themselves muslim because its the flavor of the day. That is all fun and games until they run in to a real muslim extremist with no patience for imposters or moderates.

I am not racist, I am observant. Islam is not a race, it is a religion. So calling me racist is really stupid, even for you two.

You act like you have never heard of the crusades. You act like you have never heard of jihad. You act like fools from what I can see.

So you can choose how to proceed from here . You can educate yourselves, check what I have said here and compare it to islamic texts and see if I am right or wrong. You can learn something about the religion and what it means to be a so-called moderate in the west and a so-called moderate surrounded by extremists. When in the west muslims practicing taqiyyah say, "We smile in your face though we curse you in our hearts." Surrounded by extremists the moderates say, "Death to America." If they don't they will be the first ones on the chopping block. allah has no patience for faithful who are seduced by western ways.

Read, or better yet, get someone to read it to you. That way you have a chance of actually learning something.

Good luck to you both.

originally posted by: andy06shake


To be honest most of our western civilizations could do with the influx of new people who breed more than just 2.4 children.

370 million is not bad in America, as humans come out of poverty around the world, which is very close now, children around the world will stabilize at 2 billion, so the reality is we have 2 billion children today and in 2100 it will still be 2 billion children. Africa still has 3 billion to grow and Asia has 1 billion, but that is it until the human race reaches it max growth of 11 billion.

That is it, so to think we need to infuse our country with more children bearing people it is just not true and it really isn't there in the near future.

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: ScepticScot


Yes the culture in middle east is very different and in many cases and in many ways much worse than ours.

That doesn't mean all muslims think/act/believe exactly the same as Vroom appears to think.

Of course not, but as I said it is a numbers game here in you need X to be a small problem, XX to be bigger, XXXX to be a country wide problem. I don't know what the numbers should be, but at some point it becomes a huge country wide issue, and in a place like Sweden with vastly different cultures how many of the 150,000 immigrants they have does it take to be a huge problem?

Seems they have reached that point...

Why? Sweden is consistently rated as one if the best countries in the world to live in with high standard of living, education and low crime.

There has been issues in some areas caused by migration and I think there is a good case that the level of migration was too high that isn't anything to do with the religion of the migrants.

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: andy06shake


To be honest most of our western civilizations could do with the influx of new people who breed more than just 2.4 children.

370 million is not bad in America, as humans come out of poverty around the world, which is very close now, children around the world will stabilize at 2 billion, so the reality is we have 2 billion children today and in 2100 it will still be 2 billion children. Africa still has 3 billion to grow and Asia has 1 billion, but that is it until the human race reaches it max growth of 11 billion.

That is it, so to think we need to infuse our country with more children bearing people it is just not true and it really isn't there in the near future.

It isn't the total number of people in a country but the demographic mix. As people are living longer and having less children the average age of the population increases to a point that becomes economically problematic.

originally posted by: Vroomfondel
andy and scot,

I want to point out something that apparently you two rocket scientists missed. I have been addressing muslims and the primary goal of the religion. You have been addressing me. I have seen dozens, probably hundreds of websites, devoted to making this information available to the public. Instead of educating yourselves, you attack me and spend your time fantasizing about me and my life. Of course you know absolutely nothing about me but that doesn't seem to stop you from talking about me anyway. You throw in an occasional 'probably' to make it sound speculative but your tone and the manner of your comments suggests you think you really know what you are talking about. You do not. Not even close.

You have tried in vain to change the topic of the conversation, obfuscate and deny, and just plain lie. And it has gotten you nowhere. Why not try a little grown up truth? It will be nice to try something new...

Everyone knows that one of the primary goals of islam is to convert non-believers. It is also as commonly known that those who refuse to convert must be eliminated. It is also known, though not by you, that these laws are immutable within islam. As is taqiyyah, the method of muslims deceiving infidels to gain their trust. This is not made up, it is in print and every real muslim knows it. I say real musim because in this country we have a bunch of sjw idiots who put on a scarf and run around calling themselves muslim because its the flavor of the day. That is all fun and games until they run in to a real muslim extremist with no patience for imposters or moderates.

I am not racist, I am observant. Islam is not a race, it is a religion. So calling me racist is really stupid, even for you two.

You act like you have never heard of the crusades. You act like you have never heard of jihad. You act like fools from what I can see.

So you can choose how to proceed from here . You can educate yourselves, check what I have said here and compare it to islamic texts and see if I am right or wrong. You can learn something about the religion and what it means to be a so-called moderate in the west and a so-called moderate surrounded by extremists. When in the west muslims practicing taqiyyah say, "We smile in your face though we curse you in our hearts." Surrounded by extremists the moderates say, "Death to America." If they don't they will be the first ones on the chopping block. allah has no patience for faithful who are seduced by western ways.

Read, or better yet, get someone to read it to you. That way you have a chance of actually learning something.

Good luck to you both.

If we are attacking you it's because you are talking utter racist drivel. And yes it is racism as it fundamentally comes from the same place as hatred for blacks/Jews/Irish etc that we have seen for years.

Reading the same bigoted nonsense over and over again on hate filled far right sites isn't educating yourself, it's just reinforcing your ignorance.

Yes there there are violent and evil Muslims, just as there are violent and evil people of every religion, culture and race.

There is certainly nothing in the Koran that is fundamentally more violent or oppressive than what is in the bible.

We can and should be judgmental about human rights abuses in Muslim countries. But before we get too smug and complacent we should remember that within living memory the Nazi party got democratically elected in what was supposedly one of the most civilised countries in the world and the British empire was still enforcing racist oppressive policies around the world.

Within my life time about half the current members of the EU where still oppressive dictatorships and south Africa had an entire political system based round racial discrimination.

In my country it was still legal to rape your wife up until the 1980s.

We might be more developed than countries in the middle east but maybe not as far or for as long as we might like to believe.

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed
a reply to: ElectricUniverse

A simple no would have sufficed.

And a simple, "hopenotfeariswhatweneed wants to deny facts about the influx of Muslim immigrants and the increase in crimes and rape across Europe because of those Muslim immigrants," would have sufficed.

originally posted by: ScepticScot
...
There is certainly nothing in the Koran that is fundamentally more violent or oppressive than what is in the bible.
...

That's completely false. Muhammed was a raider who murdered people even when they would surrender. He would take women from raided caravans as slave/wives. He also took a minor as a "slave/wife." He never changed. He wasn't a peaceful person, and the last thing he told his followers was to spread Islam by any means, including by the sword. Which began the first Muslim crusade to take over Europe.

Meanwhile the Old Testament showed that God could be violent, the New Testament changed Christianity. Jesus Christ did not go around with a sword raiding caravans. He didn't take slave/wives from raided caravans. He didn't murder, or behead people.

a reply to: ScepticScot

No, it is not racism if it has nothing to do with race. You are just using the liberal playbook and trying to get any insult you can think of to stick. Its not working and its not going to. Its not even close. Blaming an entire race for the actions of a few is just plain wrong. Blaming a religion that preaches violence and the people who adhere to it is not wrong, it is realistic.

Reciting the same nonsense over and over again does not make it right. I do not read or get my news from far right websites or news agencies. Again, stop acting like you know me - you don't.

So now you are expert on islam. You are certain there is nothing in the koran that is fundamentally more violent or oppressive than in the Bible. Being such an expert on religion I am sure you are familiar with the hadith. And if you are, then you know that the hadith is at least as much a part of daily islam as the koran. For example, the salat, the ritual prayers that the devout recite five times a day, they are not in the koran, only in the hadith. Sharia law, one of the founding principles of islam is not in the koran. It is in the hadith. You are stretching far by trying to compare the Bible with the koran, but you lose it completely with the addition of the hadith to the conversation. But since you are so smart and know so much about islam I am sure you already knew that.

And again you cite other nations history trying to minimize islams evils. The difference is that the rest of the world is trying to change. Islam is not. Islam is violent whether you believe it or not. This so-called religion of peace has never known peace. Ever. In the entirety of its existence it has never known peace. The various factions within islam don't even get along with each other.

Instead of making up crap about where I get my facts or what tv shows I watch why don't you read something. Educate yourself. You have so much to learn...

a reply to: ScepticScot

BTW, Islam is a religion, there are white people who are Muslim, there are hispanic people who are Muslim, there are Arab people who are Muslim. In fact the majority of Muslims are from Asia, and not Arabic.

Anyway, criticizing Islam is not racist, because there are Muslims from all races.

originally posted by: ElectricUniverse

originally posted by: hopenotfeariswhatweneed
a reply to: ElectricUniverse

A simple no would have sufficed.

And a simple, "hopenotfeariswhatweneed wants to deny facts about the influx of Muslim immigrants and the increase in crimes and rape across Europe because of those Muslim immigrants," would have sufficed.

Facts aren't exactly your strong suit...

originally posted by: ElectricUniverse

originally posted by: ScepticScot
...
There is certainly nothing in the Koran that is fundamentally more violent or oppressive than what is in the bible.
...

That's completely false. Muhammed was a raider who murdered people even when they would surrender. He would take women from raided caravans as slave/wives. He also took a minor as a "slave/wife." He never changed. He wasn't a peaceful person, and the last thing he told his followers was to spread Islam by any means, including by the sword. Which began the first Muslim crusade to take over Europe.

Meanwhile the Old Testament showed that God could be violent, the New Testament changed Christianity. Jesus Christ did not go around with a sword raiding caravans. He didn't take slave/wives from raided caravans. He didn't murder, or behead people.

Are you saying the old testament isn't part of Christianity?

Or did God change his mind about all the rape and murder?

And let's not forget that the whole story of Jesus starts with God raping a 12 year old.

Jesus himself didn't seem to adverse to a spot of violence.
'
Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth; I have not come to bring peace, but a sword.'

originally posted by: Vroomfondel
a reply to: ScepticScot

No, it is not racism if it has nothing to do with race. You are just using the liberal playbook and trying to get any insult you can think of to stick. Its not working and its not going to. Its not even close. Blaming an entire race for the actions of a few is just plain wrong. Blaming a religion that preaches violence and the people who adhere to it is not wrong, it is realistic.

Reciting the same nonsense over and over again does not make it right. I do not read or get my news from far right websites or news agencies. Again, stop acting like you know me - you don't.

So now you are expert on islam. You are certain there is nothing in the koran that is fundamentally more violent or oppressive than in the Bible. Being such an expert on religion I am sure you are familiar with the hadith. And if you are, then you know that the hadith is at least as much a part of daily islam as the koran. For example, the salat, the ritual prayers that the devout recite five times a day, they are not in the koran, only in the hadith. Sharia law, one of the founding principles of islam is not in the koran. It is in the hadith. You are stretching far by trying to compare the Bible with the koran, but you lose it completely with the addition of the hadith to the conversation. But since you are so smart and know so much about islam I am sure you already knew that.

And again you cite other nations history trying to minimize islams evils. The difference is that the rest of the world is trying to change. Islam is not. Islam is violent whether you believe it or not. This so-called religion of peace has never known peace. Ever. In the entirety of its existence it has never known peace. The various factions within islam don't even get along with each other.

Instead of making up crap about where I get my facts or what tv shows I watch why don't you read something. Educate yourself. You have so much to learn...

It's racism because it cones from exact same place that all other forms of racism cones from.

Obviously you are right about the Koran preaching violence

This is what the Lord Almighty says... ‘Now go and strike Amalek and devote to destruction all that they have. Do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, child and infant, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.’” (1 Samuel 15:3)

Oppps might have got that wrong.....

Both the Bible and Koran (and pretty much all religious texts) have violence throughout them. Trying to claim Muslims are exceptional in this us just plain wrong.

originally posted by: ElectricUniverse
a reply to: ScepticScot

BTW, Islam is a religion, there are white people who are Muslim, there are hispanic people who are Muslim, there are Arab people who are Muslim. In fact the majority of Muslims are from Asia, and not Arabic.

Anyway, criticizing Islam is not racist, because there are Muslims from all races.

The fear and hatred towards Muslims comes from the exact same place as racism always has.

The people promoting and embracing that fear and hatred are overwhelmingly the same people who would have held racist views in the past.

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: ScepticScot


Yes the culture in middle east is very different and in many cases and in many ways much worse than ours.

That doesn't mean all muslims think/act/believe exactly the same as Vroom appears to think.

Of course not, but as I said it is a numbers game here in you need X to be a small problem, XX to be bigger, XXXX to be a country wide problem. I don't know what the numbers should be, but at some point it becomes a huge country wide issue, and in a place like Sweden with vastly different cultures how many of the 150,000 immigrants they have does it take to be a huge problem?

Seems they have reached that point...

Why? Sweden is consistently rated as one if the best countries in the world to live in with high standard of living, education and low crime.

There has been issues in some areas caused by migration and I think there is a good case that the level of migration was too high that isn't anything to do with the religion of the migrants.

Nice sugar coating there...wrong and only part of the story, but nice.

Sweden was 3rd on the overall ranking of quality of life in 2015 and was no lower than 4th going back to 2012. They have been steadily dropping since then and this year they came in 14th. But I am sure it was just a coincidence, right?

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: ElectricUniverse
a reply to: ScepticScot

BTW, Islam is a religion, there are white people who are Muslim, there are hispanic people who are Muslim, there are Arab people who are Muslim. In fact the majority of Muslims are from Asia, and not Arabic.

Anyway, criticizing Islam is not racist, because there are Muslims from all races.

The fear and hatred towards Muslims comes from the exact same place as racism always has.

The people promoting and embracing that fear and hatred are overwhelmingly the same people who would have held racist views in the past.

That is a projected opinion, not a fact. It is not the same and you know it. People do not all act the same because of the color of their skin. But people taught the same religion, a religion that dictates every aspect of their lives, do act the same on all the measurable issues associated with the religion. Within the texts of this religion are all the facts and methods by which this is accomplished including the method of lying and disguising their faith to gain the trust of non-believers, but only until the day of judgement comes. Then the infidels either convert or die.

originally posted by: Vroomfondel

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: Xtrozero

originally posted by: ScepticScot


Yes the culture in middle east is very different and in many cases and in many ways much worse than ours.

That doesn't mean all muslims think/act/believe exactly the same as Vroom appears to think.

Of course not, but as I said it is a numbers game here in you need X to be a small problem, XX to be bigger, XXXX to be a country wide problem. I don't know what the numbers should be, but at some point it becomes a huge country wide issue, and in a place like Sweden with vastly different cultures how many of the 150,000 immigrants they have does it take to be a huge problem?

Seems they have reached that point...

Why? Sweden is consistently rated as one if the best countries in the world to live in with high standard of living, education and low crime.

There has been issues in some areas caused by migration and I think there is a good case that the level of migration was too high that isn't anything to do with the religion of the migrants.

Nice sugar coating there...wrong and only part of the story, but nice.

Sweden was 3rd on the overall ranking of quality of life in 2015 and was no lower than 4th going back to 2012. They have been steadily dropping since then and this year they came in 14th. But I am sure it was just a coincidence, right?

Where is America on that list, oh yeah right 120 something...

By your logic the U. S has a serious Muslim problem.