Beyond Bigelow & BAASS, After AATIP and on To the Stars...

a reply to: Outrageo



Don't forget everyone is watching everyone else too...

a reply to: mirageman

How funny would that be, no-one knows anything but everyone watches everyone in case they might know something and due to the human condition, some pretend to know something and some claim to know everything.

Everyone watches those who they think have learnt something from the people they are watching and try and learn what they know when in actuality no-one knows anything about something or everything!

What we were talking about again?

a reply to: pigsy2400

What we were talking about again? 

Am scratching my head again!
😉

Actually, as far as concern with any IC watching us expose TTSA, well, possibly it's just what they want.
They want weird theories, they want us mocking TTSA, and TTSA followers striking back… divisive contention within ufology.

They love Vallee mocking the ET believers and they mocking him.

So…no I doubt any of us here have to fear any man in black coming up on you.

a reply to: Baablacksheep

What's with the whole focus on the Egyptians and greeks with these people.

NASA;

On 13 April, 2029, people looking towards the sky will see a speck of light streaking across it, which will quickly get brighter and faster. It will be travelling so fast that it will cross the width of the Moon in a minute and be as bright as stars in the sky.

Scientists have named the rock Apophis, after the Egyptian god of chaos.

There's an interesting story coming from one of our fellow Commonwealth friends in Oz (yet again - thank you Keith) about the meta-materials.....

The whole column is worth a read. But I have reduced this to some interesting comments from Garry Nolan below.

Regarding their materials analysis work, I directed the following question to Dr Nolan

... "Is there a peer reviewed paper anywhere in the near future that the community can expect?"

Dr Nolan gave an extended response, which I will quote in full below:

"Yes...some initial studies showed unusual isotopic ratios and Jacques [Vallee] has talked about them publicly so I'm comfortable talking about that....

My point is at this stage, alright as much as some of these journals that have published this stuff are good, they are not the journals that anybody is paying attention to. The journals people are paying attention to are like, Nature materials, aeronautical journals....

So, right now what is going on are confirmations....

So we're getting these validations and we're checking with the necessary experts. Then, we'll write up a simple paper that will make no claim to anything, other than the fact that here's the composition of the stuff and here's the story of how it was found. End of story.

The hanging question there, is how did it get made? People don't play with isotopic ratios easily. Ask yourself what do people do with isotopic ratios now? What do we modify isotopes for, or what have you been doing with isotopes for the last 60 years? Blow stuff up...uranium and plutonium...imaging or killing ...cancer cells...

....The cost to change isotopic ratios is considerable, especially if the providence; some of these materials which date back decades, when the ability to make those changes was so costly that why would you make a big chunk of it and throw it out in the desert?...why would you bother?...

"So I wrote an internal memo to TTSA at the time I was involved with them and said these aren't alloys. These, do not think of them as alloys. We need to change the conversation. You need to call them metamaterials...if anything, you need to call them ultramaterials because metamaterials are pretty well understood....

So, I took some of the material from Jacques to some people at Stanford, and I said - that's interesting, and you tell them a little bit about it; well I have this or that instrument, and I'll get back to you, and tell you something about this, that, the other of it...whether you've seen this in any aeronautical industry materials before. And if they come back and tell me, yes this is something from Pratt and Whitley circa 1955, I'm like, thank you, now I can go do something else..."

What is needed, is a multi-pronged methodology along the lines proposed by Chris Cogwell, and a well documented chain of custody for samples. Then, if a sample does indeed indicate genuine anomalies, along the lines Cogwell suggests; and the full results; are available in an article in a peer reviewed materials science or similar journal, we may be able to claim that we do indeed have a "fragment"from the phenomenon.

Until then, in my opinion, we need to beware of undocumented proclamations of "special" materials which do "remarkable and extraordinary things."

Full story : On the difficulty of proving UAP "fragments" are extraterrestrial

that unique isotopic ratios are clown science along with the clown hal puthoff
Just ask the a simple question, are these materials monoatomic. If they aernt, they are certainly not hyperdimesional / alen metals
a reply to: mirageman

The obvious concern is TTSA has no recognised expert in solid state physics/materials science present.

Who cares what JV, Nolan, Puthoff or indeed any of the TTSA associated crew have to say on the subject of exotic Metamaterials when none of them are qualified to do so?

To have anything worthy to contribute on the subject you're going to need some relevant PHD's, some very expensive/specialised equipment and - if you have any desire to translate into a lab testable theory - a world class manufacturing/fabrication facility.

Steve Justice knows this.

Lol good one, maybe someone can put all of ttsa out of their misery
a reply to: Jukiodone

a reply to: mirageman

I listened to the podcast that these excerpts are from , a very interesting interview and he keeps it professional whilst also taking a few sideswipes at TTSA - which I think MM the last comment in your post definitely is;

Until then, in my opinion, we need to beware of undocumented proclamations of "special" materials which do "remarkable and extraordinary things."

- I'm sure that is how Zondo described some of them!

Anyone who missed it, here is that interview;

So it looks like John Greenwald has had a response from the DoD regarding that DD form;



Here is the email response - I have typed this up as the image may be small;

Hi John, You may attribute the following to me as a Pentagon Spokesperson; "I can confirm that the form DD1910 you asked about is a valid DD1910. The standard procedure is for blocks 1-7 on the form to be filled out by the submitter before sending to DOPSR; however, occasional exceptions have occured. The submitter is reponsible for any disclaimers on the form as approved amd also abiding by any amendments that may be included in addtional communications from the DOPSR to the submitter as part of the approval process.

Per Block 3 of this form DD1910, the submitter requested release of the videos solely for the research and analysis purposes by U.S government agencies and industry partners and not for general public release.

Regards Sue Gough
Pentagon Spokesperson
Defense Public Affairs Operations

If this document is genuine, which its appearing more likely that it is considering John's correspondence here. Another piece of information that has only been touched on is what Luis Elizondo said regarding "aggressive phone calls" he had from the Pentagon where he was "threatened" - I wonder if there is a marry up here; in terms of requesting information/files to go through a release process for basically "internal use only" and for him them to clearly release them publicly via TTSA. Is there any fallout for Zondo in that case - has he broken the law or policies of the DoD in relation to these files?

That's not taking into considering of course the original f4.mpg that appeared years and years ago that is still accessible via the WayBack Machine.

The fact that TTSA used these videos and then stamped their logo all over them means that there is a possible breach of DoD regulations. Zondo as an ex-employee could be implicated here whether he requested the release or not....

USE OF NON-PUBLIC INFORMATION:

Even though you have left Government service, you still may not use non-public information to further your own private interests, or those of another, including your subsequent employer. Non-public information includes classified information, source selection data, information protected by the Privacy Act, proprietary information, and other information that has not been made available to the public and is exempt from disclosure....

ogc.osd.mil...

Unless of course TTSA are considered a government industry partner. Or there's another piece of paper down the back of Knapp's sofa waiting to be leaked!



Zondo said the DoD released for "...exactly why the reason for the request was made. So it was completely on the up and up".....He also said the 3 videos went through a foreign disclosure review.

a reply to: mirageman

Ok so I don't understand why if these files were "declassified" and given the ok for "release" by the DOD- why they would then need to go through a "Foreign Disclosure Review"?

FDR - is a process of which CMI (Classified Material Intelligence) is reviewed in case it wants or needs to be shared with foreign countries governments and/or international organisations BUT not general release.

An example of this would be classified military intelligence concerning something like "terrorism" or something like that. It is not released to the public for obvious reasons but needs to go through a Foreign Disclosure review to be shared with countries classed as "allies" or international organisations, say like Interpol for example.

If these files were approved for "public" release (which they weren't) but they keep stating that they were, then they wouldn't need to go through a FDR?

The only reason I can see that they would need to go through an FDR is if they HADNT been given the OK for public release - which they weren't. But going through an FDR still doesn't necessarily give the OK to release publicly for reasons I posted above.

Some interesting links regarding the FRP processes;

Foreign Disclosure & Release of Classified National Intelligence
fas.org...

Foreign Disclosure Training for DoD - Student Guide
www.cdse.edu...

DoD Directive - Number 5230.11
Disclosure of Classified Military Information to Foreign Governments and
International Organizations
www.esd.whs.mil...

Note;
I am no expert on military information release protocol or process and if someone can correct me or state that the above is incorrect, I would genuinely appreciate it

It's a mess. But it would also appear the US DoD are involved in a game here.

Why has it taken over a year before this form surfaced? It still has not been released via FOIA to my knowledge.

Then there is the whole question of what AATIP really was, whether it replaced AAWSAP or was a part of it or if it even existed at all?

The Hoff said

The program was nicknamed Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program (AATIP). People have had trouble trying to get documents out of the Pentagon by saying they want all documents on AATIP, and they have a hard time because that wasn’t the actual name of the program. “Advanced Aerospace Weapons Systems Application Program” is the actual name of the program. But AATIP was the nickname it went by.

Source : IRVA Conference 15th June 2018

Circling back over this story reveals lots of other contradictions too.

a reply to: mirageman

The "nickname" of the program; huh?

Did they not also say that AAWSAP was the overarching program and AATIP became the little brother of AAWSAP once it was wrapped, according to Zondo himself! AAWSAP created the DIRD documents and presumably the "investigation" at Skinwalker Ranch seeing as though most of the allocated funds for AAWSAP went to Bigelow / BASS?

Another point that many don't discuss is how BASS was created months and months before the solicitation for the contract appeared and job listings for what you could argue were needed to fulfill the contract were posted! - Now isn't that a little odd!

To make it even more of a mess; Zondo has also stated quite recently and contradicting only himself; that AATIP actually existed before AAWSAP and continues to exist under a different name today...? I mean which one is it?

It is a mess....and they have created this mess, we must also remember where most of this information comes from... Luis Elizondo himself.

I have also wondered whilst we have all been arguing/discussing/picking up this dogs dinner of awfulness; what if anything else has been going on that we haven't had the time or sight to pay attention to?

On the subject of "Meta/Ultra/Materials" - there is nothing to suggest that if any of them do seem to have layering or a manufacturing process that is "unknown" that it would have to be "extraterrestrial" in origin. People in Ufology never had an "and" its always "or" - the world is not that black and white.

Here is a program that was revealed by BAE systems back in 2016 - if anyone knows anything about black projects, most of the time when something is "unveiled" as what the future could look like - alot of the time this usually indicates that they are either already operational and have been for some time OR they are quite a long way along already but simply haven't disclosed that they are. It has been as a method of turning something black; grey and then white.

Now that may not answer the question to ultra-materials origins before programs such as this were active; but I find this take by BAE on the creation of "future" aircraft/UAS/UAV very interesting indeed

“The world of military and civil aircraft is constantly evolving and it’s been exciting to work with scientists and engineers outside BAE Systems and to consider how some unique British technologies could tackle the military threats of the future,” explained BAE Systems Global Engineering Fellow Professor Nick Colosimo.

They envision the 3D printers of the future to be a lot more efficient, and a lot different than what we have available to us today. The BAE scientists believe that within this century they will be capable of growing Unmanned Air Vehicles (UAVs) using advanced chemistry and large chemical baths. The process would be capable of creating functional, near fully assembled drones for specific military operations within a matter of weeks.

“This is a very exciting time in the development of chemistry. We have been developing routes to digitize synthetic and materials chemistry and at some point in the future hope to assemble complex objects in a machine from the bottom up, or with minimal human assistance.

Creating small aircraft would be very challenging but I’m confident that creative thinking and convergent digital technologies will eventually lead to the digital programming of complex chemical and material systems,” explained Regius Professor at the University of Glasgow Lee Cronin, who is also the Founding Scientific Director at Cronin Group PLC, the company that is helping to develop the Chemputer.

Source

a reply to: pigsy2400

I have also wondered whilst we have all been arguing/discussing/picking up this dogs dinner of awfulness; what if anything else has been going on that we haven't had the time or sight to pay attention to?

Yes!

Also: If TTSA really want to help set the UFO story straight, why don't they tell us where the bull# is and who the fabulists are. In the latest Eric Davis interview on the Open Minds podcast he says a great deal of Greer's whistleblowers were crackpots but there were some genuine people mixed in. However he refuses to say who the crackpots were! Same with Elizondo who likes to cite UFO fantasy and misinformation but refuses to call out the liars and fantasy paddlers. You can't just add to the noise without at least removing some of the static.

a reply to: coursecatalog

coming from a guy who took a poltergeist home and wrote "technical" papers stating that soldiers could "teleport" wherever they wanted to but failed to state how and charged $25,000 for the privilege. So much so that members of the DoD actually looked into it as many were outraged that public tax dollars were being spent on these papers.

What also put the boot in with this, is many of these papers including those that were in the DIRDs under AAWSAP were simply revised versions of older papers that have been around for many years.

As MM always finishes on a musical note, I thought the lyrics of this would be quite fitting;

Considering that the "TV series" which is due to air on the history channel on the 31st May. It's interesting to note those that have already seen it and are bragging about it on social media.

I wonder how and why they got a sneek peak? I also wonder if anyone outside the TTSA cult has seen it....doubtful.

I would also postulate that previously "unknown information" that's on the show will be used against others in ufology that haven't seen it yet as they aren't in the "cult", will probably form the basis of more character assassination in the lead up to the show and then the cult will use the show when it airs to prove themselves correct and others wrong....in their eyes anyway.

My first bet goes with how "TTSA got the Navy to change their ufo reporting process"



Just putting that out there as the Cults behaviours so far will more than likely be repeated to "cement" thier narrative.