Beyond Bigelow & BAASS, After AATIP and on To the Stars...

This is a huge problem in ufology. It's obvious, and the evidence is overwhelming that something unexplained is flying in our air space and has been for decades, and maybe centuries. What they are, no one knows for sure, but the phenomenon is real.

The problem is, humans like go be part of groups. Be it the ufo are aliens group, ufos are inter dimensional, ufos are time travellers, ufos are secret militery projects, ufos are BS. K could go on and on!

Yes, there is a lot of BS that comes with this subject, but anyone who has been into the subject for a long time should know that this is a real phenomenon, and should have been taken seriously years ago. But people lime their groups. People always want to be part of groups. Which is a shame

a reply to: Jay-morris

I am not replying to you, to flame you or argue; this is important to consider in my reply- its not the point I am making.

There is just as much evidence its something physical flying in the sky, as there is that it's a human condition that perceives things that are not there...this is Ufology's fundamental issue.

But that's not the point; you could and will probably link over a "UFO case" that defies explanation - just as I could link a paper on Academia in regards to neuroscience and how the brain perceives reality and all those things that can mess with that perception.

You could even link the two....as I said; opinion, belief and data, lots of the prior not much of the latter. If there was; I suspect we wouldn't be having this conversation.

originally posted by: pigsy2400
a reply to: Jay-morris

I am not replying to you, to flame you or argue; this is important to consider in my reply- its not the point I am making.

There is just as much evidence its something physical flying in the sky, as there is that it's a human condition that perceives things that are not there...this is Ufology's fundamental issue.

But that's not the point; you could and will probably link over a "UFO case" that defies explanation - just as I could link a paper on Academia in regards to neuroscience and how the brain perceives reality and all those things that can mess with that perception.

You could even link the two....as I said; opinion, belief and data, lots of the prior not much of the latter. If there was; I suspect we wouldn't be having this conversation.

I am at work now, but I can do that later. There are many cases, military alone that have muliple witnesess and radar hits. We have multiple pilot sightings with radar hits too. Some that proves something is there, and not a trick on the mind.

What they are no one knows.

a reply to: Jay-morris

What they are no one knows.....

But Tom DeLomge claimed he did know. Because he was told "we found a lifeform". By a general or secret service agent or whatever the story was depending on when he told it. The place and the person who told it seem to be variables.

TTSA have almost exclusively relied on 3 videos and the Nimitz story. Which is coincidentally the same ship involved with the leaking of one of those videos onto the internet a few year later. Coincidence? TTSA aren't really bothered about anything else but this case. They might have been to Italy and interviewed a couple of other folks for their TV series. But that was sloppily done as we've discussed.

AATIP, was supposedly started in 2007 when the FLIR video was leaked? Coincidence?

AAWSAP which was supposedly the umbrella under which AATIP fell was not offered to tender until late 2008. How do we explain the discrepancy there?

But the Nimitz case is the focus of TTSA. Could it be because it really is a matter of National Security involving espionage?

The Pentagon "seems" relaxed about the video being out there. But what if it's not about that particular video but the people involved? We can only second guess. Like I keep pointing out Studio Six was a film company created as a front for the CIA back in 1979. TTSA is registered as a company providing Services Allied to Motion Pictures.

Another coincidence?

BREAKING :




twitter.com...

originally posted by: Jay-morris
This is a huge problem in ufology. It's obvious, and the evidence is overwhelming that something unexplained is flying in our air space...

Or the STORIES are overwhelming, rather than evidence of something unexplained. And the stories are what most of us love, dating back to the 1940s and beyond. It hardly matters if they're debunked in time; the journey itself through events and quirky characters is entertaining enough - eg the beauty of a house of cards like Roswell, built decades after the event and plumped up by outrageous fibs and misinterpretation, yet as one of the three pillars of ufology, it can never die, the same as the other two pillars: Rendlesham and Bob Lazar.

The only 'hard' evidence aside from 'stories' that can be extracted from all three is Colonel Halt's tape recording at Rendlesham - a live, 'as it happens' narration of unexplained lights that may have a very natural explanation. Outrageous lies, bickering and gross embellishments have throttled that case to death, but we won't hear a death rattle because it's one of those sacred pillars.

TTSA would love the Nimitz case to be a fourth pillar, but I find the whole affair rather underwhelming. Much has been made of a FLIR video depicting a blob doing precisely nothing - which does not shift away at incredible speed although many will queue up to insist a camera zoom IS proof of 'miraculous' movement. (Some still believe that Fravor filmed it, but he couldn't be bothered to switch his FLIR on.) Aside from that, we just have entertaining stories, not helped by five navy personnel already manufacturing their own false accounts before the case was hardly off the public starting line.

originally posted by: ConfusedBrit

originally posted by: Jay-morris
This is a huge problem in ufology. It's obvious, and the evidence is overwhelming that something unexplained is flying in our air space...

Or the STORIES are overwhelming, rather than evidence of something unexplained. And the stories are what most of us love, dating back to the 1940s and beyond. It hardly matters if they're debunked in time; the journey itself through events and quirky characters is entertaining enough - eg the beauty of a house of cards like Roswell, built decades after the event and plumped up by outrageous fibs and misinterpretation, yet as one of the three pillars of ufology, it can never die, the same as the other two pillars: Rendlesham and Bob Lazar.

The only 'hard' evidence aside from 'stories' that can be extracted from all three is Colonel Halt's tape recording at Rendlesham - a live, 'as it happens' narration of unexplained lights that may have a very natural explanation. Outrageous lies, bickering and gross embellishments have throttled that case to death, but we won't hear a death rattle because it's one of those sacred pillars.

TTSA would love the Nimitz case to be a fourth pillar, but I find the whole affair rather underwhelming. Much has been made of a FLIR video depicting a blob doing precisely nothing - which does not shift away at incredible speed although many will queue up to insist a camera zoom IS proof of 'miraculous' movement. (Some still believe that Fravor filmed it, but he couldn't be bothered to switch his FLIR on.) Aside from that, we just have entertaining stories, not helped by five navy personnel already manufacturing their own false accounts before the case was hardly off the public starting line.

Absolute rubbish! There are many cases involving militery, pilots, and radar cases. Why are you even denying that? There is more than enough evidence thst some ufos defy explanation!

Are you one of these people who wishes nothing comes out of this, just because you enjoy doing this so much?

You are running on belief, just as much as the ufo are alien believers if you believe there is no evidence that something is going on here! Be it aliens, militery projects whatever!

a reply to: ConfusedBrit

TTSA would love the Nimitz case to be a fourth pillar, but I find the whole affair rather underwhelming. Much has been made of a FLIR video depicting a blob doing precisely nothing - which does not shift away at incredible speed although many will queue up to insist a camera zoom IS proof of 'miraculous' movement. (Some still believe that Fravor filmed it, but he couldn't be bothered to switch his FLIR on.) Aside from that, we just have entertaining stories, not helped by five navy personnel already manufacturing their own false accounts before the case was hardly off the public starting line.

So soon after the event, people coming board to take every away is not weird to you? The fact that other footage was filmed that was clearer. If these objects were nothing, why not release it?

On top of that, we have witnesess of the objects in question. What were they? Weather balloons or swamp gas reflecting of the oceans and clouds lol

Obviously something happend! That much is obvious!

originally posted by: mirageman
a reply to: Jay-morris

What they are no one knows.....

But Tom DeLomge claimed he did know. Because he was told "we found a lifeform". By a general or secret service agent or whatever the story was depending on when he told it. The place and the person who told it seem to be variables.

TTSA have almost exclusively relied on 3 videos and the Nimitz story. Which is coincidentally the same ship involved with the leaking of one of those videos onto the internet a few year later. Coincidence? TTSA aren't really bothered about anything else but this case. They might have been to Italy and interviewed a couple of other folks for their TV series. But that was sloppily done as we've discussed.

AATIP, was supposedly started in 2007 when the FLIR video was leaked? Coincidence?

AAWSAP which was supposedly the umbrella under which AATIP fell was not offered to tender until late 2008. How do we explain the discrepancy there?

But the Nimitz case is the focus of TTSA. Could it be because it really is a matter of National Security involving espionage?

The Pentagon "seems" relaxed about the video being out there. But what if it's not about that particular video but the people involved? We can only second guess. Like I keep pointing out Studio Six was a film company created as a front for the CIA back in 1979. TTSA is registered as a company providing Services Allied to Motion Pictures.

Another coincidence?

I do not know where TTSA is going. All i care about is the ufo subject, and getting to the truth of what's going on here. Too many people have gotten comfortable is their selected groups, that you really cannot take them seriously.

Any argument about the reality of ufos will always end up: its all a matter of faith or no faith.


Sure, literally there are UFOS all the time. But the question is more nuanced than the black and white superficial issue of ufos.


It’s also about, ET, UT, possible extra-dimensional realities, inner earth possibilities as well. Or maybe just misperception.

The belief spectrum ranges from the total disbeliever in these weird possibilities on any level to maybe just physical ETs from outer space to the more occult potentials.

It's all about personal belief.
Just as religion.


The thing with me personally is dogmatic people who say one way or the other, this is the truth when the fact is there is no certainty here at all.

It makes me sick to hear the AA “theorists” project heir dogma as it makes my skin crawl when people say its ET or its nothing as if they know. THEY DON’T KNOW!

It’s about personal belief since theirs is no science that gives us certainty.

TTSA, on the spectrum, is really bad. Why? Because they have become a propaganda and hype outfit for their nebulous views. And they hype themselves when they really HAVE NOTHING TO HYPE!

originally posted by: Jay-morris
So soon after the event, people coming board to take every away is not weird to you? The fact that other footage was filmed that was clearer. If these objects were nothing, why not release it?

On top of that, we have witnesess of the objects in question. What were they? Weather balloons or swamp gas reflecting of the oceans and clouds lolObviously something happend! That much is obvious!

What you say is True. Part of the disinfo agents goal is to divide and conquer. So they want you to believe that most of the witnesses are lying. There is no reason to think that these witnesses are lying, as they are very down to Earth and matter of fact about the whole thing. What is funny is that if you listen to each witness you would think the one who is most likely to lie about it would be the arrogant fighter pilot who calls himself 'Sex".

To elaborate further on why TTSA is out of line.

It’s one thing to hype a phenomenon like let’s say the Ancient Alien folks who hype ancient ETs as a fact. IMO their proof is flimsy but they have a right to their opinion, however BS it sounds.

TTSA, on the other hand, hypes itself.

Or they would claim they hype the reality of ufos.

WE ALREADY KNOW UFOS EXIST!
They actually want to take credit for things that already exist!

They came out and insinuated they would be a disclosure operation. That failed

Well, they are a research group in a sense just not a good one, like a Mufon, for example.

So, what really is TTSA?

What was that concoction TDL came up with, I forget?

a reply to: spiritualarchitect

Part of the disinfo agents goal is to divide and conquer. So they want you to believe that most of the witnesses are lying. There is no reason to think that these witnesses are lying....

No? Well why do you tell lies and spread disinformation yourself?


Here's just some of your unproven claims from this thread...you state these things as if they are fact. They are not. They are lies. You know they are lies. But you keep telling them don't cha?

Obviously there is an upper segment of the military/government working WITH the alien visitors and there is NO national security risk at all. The term "national security" is simply the cover lie for the cover-up itself.....


....The United States Government and The United States Military...Those two corporations believe in aliens, and so should you. ..


Physical objects that travel at incredible speeds through US airspace, nah, why would the Air Force want to track those....The people in charge know damn well what they are. And the subject is taboo for the Air Force to talk about it.....

Links

Then there's this claim

“We have possessed knowledge and we have in our protection subjects from a planet X. Knowledge we obtained so vast and powerful, whoever possesses this knowledge would be the most powerful person in the world.” - Nixon 1974

Link to original post

I asked you to provide a source for that quote. You never replied. Because Nixon never said that did he? Another little fib from you.

As part of that post you also claimed that the intel services of the USA were created as the result of Roswell.

The immediate outgrowth of this club was the NSA, CIA and of course the Air Force, all created immediately after Roswell incident.

When in fact it's a matter of historical record that the formation of the CIA etc. was in fact as a result of the end of WWII. The CIA already had a director in place and the bills to enact the National Security Act of 1947 were written long before the Roswell events in July of 1947.

So quit claiming people have no reason to lie when you are a liar yourself. You've lied elsewhere on ATS but it isn't worth the effort chasing everything down. You have been caught out and you are a poster who cannot be trusted.

Why do you keep spreading disinformation on ATS spiritualarchitect?

Interesting development in the world of the US military doing the rounds....

Air Force Two-Star Fired Amid Investigation into Misconduct Allegations

The head of the Air Force Research Lab at Wright-Patterson Air Force Base, Ohio, is under investigation after misconduct allegations were made against him and has been removed from his position.

Gen. Arnold Bunch, head of Air Force Materiel Command, relieved Maj. Gen. William Cooley from his post Wednesday "due to a loss of confidence in his ability to lead," the command said in a release, adding that the move is related to the ongoing investigation.

Derek Kaufman, spokesman for AFMC, told Military.com that Cooley has been temporarily reassigned as the special assistant to Bunch while officials look into the allegations. Kaufman added that the Air Force Office of Special Investigations is looking into the matter, but could not comment on the nature of inquiry. However, a military lawyer previously told Military.com that when "OSI embarks on an investigation, it is inherently a criminal investigation."

It's interesting because Maj. Gen. William T. Cooley was the Commander, Air Force Research Laboratory, Wright-Patterson Air Force Base, Ohio. He is a successor to one Maj. Gen. William N. McCasland. Appointed in May 2017.

However what this means in the greater scheme of things has yet to be revealed.

The first FOIA that was made in relation to AATIP

Requesting all documents generated as part of the Defense Department's Advance Aviation Threat Identification Program, including the 490 page report that was described in the December 16 article in the Washington Post

.........by Laurent Coorbell

Hmmmmm.......Can't place the name

December of this year is when most FOIA requests pertaining to AATIP / AAWSAP are expected to be delivered.

Tick tock..

One such critic was the UFO researcher and Above Top Secret administrator Isaac Koi (a pseudonym to protect the person’s identity for professional reasons), who believed at the time that thefinaltheory’s story and video were bogus. “Within a few hours of the video being posted online, I tracked the video back to a website run by a group called Vision Unlimited located in Germany,” Koi tells Popular Mechanics. “Since that group specialized in producing footage, including special effects, I originally tentatively concluded the footage was a hoax.

www.popularmechanics.com...

www.popularmechanics.com...

www.popularmechanics.com...

www.popularmechanics.com...

THEY FOUND thefinaltheory...............




www.popularmechanics.com...