Beyond Bigelow & BAASS, After AATIP and on To the Stars...

a reply to: celltypespecific



And if you'd only replied to at least one of this guy's emails in the last twenty years you could have been a very rich man.




Or in prison!

Regarding the 'secret' FBI files, although a few authentic papers are thrown into the mix, Arby provided valuable information about the overall picture TEN years ago on ATS (I didn't realise he'd been treading these boards for so long!):

originally posted by: Arbitrageur

Here is the FBI site about these documents foia.fbi.gov...

As confirmed by the FBI:

Subject concerns an FBI inquiry into a possible unauthorized disclosure of classified information when a document marked "Top Secret" was made public. The investigation was closed after it was learned that the document was completely bogus.

One of the documents referring to an "ET" angle is a bit of a giveaway...

The region they come from is NOT from the 'astral plane', but corresponds to the Lokas or Talas. Students of esoteric matters will understand these terms.

Or students of 'Amazing Stories'?

originally posted by: mirageman
a reply to: celltypespecific

And if you'd only replied to at least one of this guy's emails in the last twenty years you could have been a very rich man.

Or in prison!

Lol

a reply to: ConfusedBrit
I can't remember everything I posted that long ago, thanks for digging that up.
The FBI site is not static so you have to use the wayback machine to see the link I provided which no longer goes to the same web page. Here's the wayback machine link to the page I originally linked to:

web.archive.org...

The FBI does have authentic documents about aliens, like some documents where some "John Doe" reported he saw aliens, so you can find legitimate files from the FBI saying things like "John Doe said he saw aliens." Substitute whoever made the report for "John Doe" and they usually go on to say there's no photos or evidence of the aliens.

But that Majestic12 document was found to be completely bogus as that wayback page shows.

originally posted by: mirageman
And if you'd only replied to at least one of this guy's emails in the last twenty years you could have been a very rich man.

I was wondering what happened to the 2 million dollars I inherited according to a Nigerian e-mail, I never got it. I didn't think he really had 2 million dollars, but maybe he did?

a reply to: Arbitrageur

The FBI does have authentic documents about aliens. Like some documents where some "John Doe" reported he saw aliens, so you can find legitimate files from the FBI saying things like "John Doe said he saw aliens." Substitute whoever made the report for "John Doe" and they usually go on to say there's no photos or evidence of the aliens.

Actually there is a mildly tantalising FBI document on Roswell , Arby. It is a Teletype message dated July 8th 1947, between the FBI’s Dallas and Cincinnati offices copied to director J. Edgar Hoover and Strategic Air Command.

Link to full document : FBI Telex 8th July 1947 on Roswell

It states -

“......the object found resembles a high altitude weather balloon with a radar reflector”.

But then intriguingly includes further comment...

“.....but that telephonic conversation between their office and Wright Field had not xxxxxxxxxx borne out this belief”.

Many on either side of the debate have selectively quoted from it. Even the US Government did in “The Roswell Report Fact v Fiction in the New Mexico Desert” 1995 where the Air Force mentioned “.....the object found resembles a high altitude weather balloon with a radar reflector” and omits the part “....but “that telephonic conversation between their office and Wright Field had not [#text blacked out#] borne out this belief...”.

Of course the latter phrase is wide open to interpretation and needs to be taken within the wider context of other historical sources. People with differing views have twisted it to fit their own perceptions of what they believe happened.

The document trail suggests that J.Edgar Hoover felt like the military were seeking to save resources and leave the FBI to investigate hoaxes.Stating, rather sarcastically, that his agents would not be wasting their time in this way in his own memo in Late September of 1947.



Fast forward 70 years and I think we can still see that these inter-agency spats continue to this day.

But let's not get too serious. Bob Bigelow may still get his $43m back off that Nigerian Guy.....


Harry Christmas!

a reply to: mirageman

Bigelow went for that scam?

It might be that if the FBI investigated it they might find Green, Doty, and Puthoff behind it.

a reply to: Willtell

Apparently there's an entry in Vallee's Diaries about that one

April 1st 1999 - Eric and Hal claimed they could get a new source of funding after Bob started getting irritated that we couldn't find anything interesting on the ranch. They'd both had an email from an opposite number in the Nigerian Security Services who seemed very genuine. Little Richard thought it was a scam but Eric took a chance and emailed Bob's bank account details anyway...

This hasn't gone well at all. Gordon Novel has been dispatched to Lagos for further operations.......

Happy Christmas to ya Will......

a reply to: mirageman

If I had some of that Bigelow money I would have a very merry Xmas!

Same to you bro

and a happy 2020

originally posted by: mirageman
the Air Force mentioned “.....the object found resembles a high altitude weather balloon with a radar reflector” and omits the part “....but “that telephonic conversation between their office and Wright Field had not [#text blacked out#] borne out this belief...”.

I don't find that surprising if the "telephonic conversation between their office and Wright Field" took place before Newton showed up. Newton was the first person on scene who actually recognized the RAWIN target as far as I can tell, and before he showed up, apparently nobody onsite recognized it as such, perhaps for the good reason they had never seen one before. Newton explains that they were only used on special projects or overseas, and that Jesse Marcel was trying to convince him the printed design on the tape was some alien writing. So I think Newton's statement explains well how before he showed up, Marcel and others could have rightly said it's not like any radar target they've ever seen before, because they hadn't ever seen one like that before, thus the "telephonic conversation between their office and Wright Field had not xxxxxxxxxx borne out this belief" could follow logically from that situation, don't you think?

Statement of Irving Newton

I received a call from some one in General Ramey's office who asked that I go to the General's office. I informed him that I was the only forecaster on duty and could not leave. Several minutes later General Ramey Himself called and said "get your ass over here. If you don't have a car take the first one with a key".

I was met at the General's office by a Lt. Col. or Col. who told me that some one had found a flying saucer in New Mexico and they had it in the General's Office. And that a flight had been set up to send it to Wright Patterson AFB, OH., but the General suspicioned that it might be meteorological equipment or something of that nature and wanted it examined by qualified meteorological personnel.

The Col. and I walked into the General's office where this supposed flying saucer was lying all over the floor. As soon as I saw it, I giggled and asked if that was the flying saucer. I was told it was.

Several people were in the room when I went in, among them, General Ramey, a couple of press people, a Major, I learned to be Major Marcel and some other folks. Some introduced Major Marcel as the person who found this material.

I told them that this was a balloon and a RAWIN. I believed this because I had seen many of these before. They were normally launched by a special crew and followed by a ground radar unit. They provided a higher altitude winds aloft. We did not use them at Fort Worth. However, I was familiar with them because we used them and their products on various projects in which I was involved. These were used mostly on special projects and overseas.

Harry Christmas!

Hairy Christmas to you too!

a reply to: mirageman

Happy Christmas to ya

Thank you!!! Happy xmas to ALL

a reply to: celltypespecific

Celty, tell Bigelow we got a haunted house we want him to check out. He could get it cheap if he hurries up

Merry Xmas

Strange interesting interview Larry King and Tom Delonge:

www.dailymotion.com...

originally posted by: Arbitrageur

originally posted by: mirageman
the Air Force mentioned “.....the object found resembles a high altitude weather balloon with a radar reflector” and omits the part “....but “that telephonic conversation between their office and Wright Field had not [#text blacked out#] borne out this belief...”.

I don't find that surprising if the "telephonic conversation between their office and Wright Field" took place before Newton showed up. Newton was the first person on scene who actually recognized the RAWIN target as far as I can tell, and before he showed up, apparently nobody onsite recognized it as such, perhaps for the good reason they had never seen one before. Newton explains that they were only used on special projects or overseas, and that Jesse Marcel was trying to convince him the printed design on the tape was some alien writing. So I think Newton's statement explains well how before he showed up, Marcel and others could have rightly said it's not like any radar target they've ever seen before, because they hadn't ever seen one like that before, thus the "telephonic conversation between their office and Wright Field had not xxxxxxxxxx borne out this belief" could follow logically from that situation, don't you think?

Statement of Irving Newton

I received a call from some one in General Ramey's office who asked that I go to the General's office. I informed him that I was the only forecaster on duty and could not leave. Several minutes later General Ramey Himself called and said "get your ass over here. If you don't have a car take the first one with a key".

I was met at the General's office by a Lt. Col. or Col. who told me that some one had found a flying saucer in New Mexico and they had it in the General's Office. And that a flight had been set up to send it to Wright Patterson AFB, OH., but the General suspicioned that it might be meteorological equipment or something of that nature and wanted it examined by qualified meteorological personnel.

The Col. and I walked into the General's office where this supposed flying saucer was lying all over the floor. As soon as I saw it, I giggled and asked if that was the flying saucer. I was told it was.

Several people were in the room when I went in, among them, General Ramey, a couple of press people, a Major, I learned to be Major Marcel and some other folks. Some introduced Major Marcel as the person who found this material.

I told them that this was a balloon and a RAWIN. I believed this because I had seen many of these before. They were normally launched by a special crew and followed by a ground radar unit. They provided a higher altitude winds aloft. We did not use them at Fort Worth. However, I was familiar with them because we used them and their products on various projects in which I was involved. These were used mostly on special projects and overseas.

Harry Christmas!

Hairy Christmas to you too!

As far as I know Marcel attended a radar school a couple of years before the roswell incident, he most probably had the expertise to recognize the rawin radar reflector.

originally posted by: celltypespecific
Strange interesting interview Larry King and Tom Delonge:

www.dailymotion.com...

They didn't even show the full frame of the Salem 1952 photo by USCG seaman, Shel Alpert. Alpert was on duty in the Coast Guard Weather Office when he snapped this picture through an office window



Which makes you wonder why not? Is it because it makes it much more likely that we are looking at a reflection? Or just poor research? But what remains unexplained should be subject to debate and study, right?

We need to prevent the word play where certain people claim "UFOs are real" with the implication that it means a spacecraft of extra-terrestrial origin but are fully complicit in the knowledge that it means nothing of the sort. We also need to understand that anecdotal evidence is not enough. It wouldn't stand up in court because too many other facts are not established.

If you say you saw someone who was murdered only a few hours after seeing them yourself then it's usually established that they actually existed and interacted with others prior to their death and are indeed 'dead'. Photos and documentation will often be provided if necessary.

However, if you claim you saw an alien then this will obviously not stand up in court because the legal and historical record shows absolutely nothing to establish it as a fact. Anyone who claims otherwise well.....they also claim myself and others are part of something ...When in fact they are a minority who proclaims various things without proof.

That video your linked was all of 7 years ago and I think we can see by watching it that ufology still refuses to dispense with 'Holy Grail' cases like Roswell for fear that all UFO cases are as flaky as that one. Maybe they are?

But that said. I am all for Larry King bringing these issues into at least what appears to be a formal debating arena with both sides of the debate represented.

So - Merry Christmas to ya Cellty and everyone else.

originally posted by: TheMadScientist2

As far as I know Marcel attended a radar school a couple of years before the roswell incident, he most probably had the expertise to recognize the rawin radar reflector.

But what further evidence is there to make your "most probably" assertion of Marcel's abilities to identify what he found out in the pastures of the Foster Ranch into something beyond reasonable doubt?

originally posted by: mirageman

originally posted by: TheMadScientist2

As far as I know Marcel attended a radar school a couple of years before the roswell incident, he most probably had the expertise to recognize the rawin radar reflector.

But what further evidence is there to make your "most probably" assertion of Marcel's abilities to identify what he found out in the pastures of the Foster Ranch into something beyond reasonable doubt?

Where is the evidence that Marcel was not able to identify a rawin radar reflector?
As far as I know Newton never said this while Marcel was alive, also that stuff about that Marcel tried to convince him of "alien writings" which he later changed it in "foreign writings".

Merry Christmas ya bunch of Nerds.

It's been a fun decade digging into UFO shenanigans with you.

a reply to: zazzafrazz

Aliens are stealing Christmas trees?

Oh. Wait. I get it.

Mele Kalikimaka.

a reply to: TheMadScientist2

Where is the evidence that Marcel was not able to identify a rawin radar reflector?

Heh.
Pure awesomeness.

a reply to: Phage

Heh.
Pure awesomeness.

Yes?

What can I do you for today?

You don't really want me to prove the absence of evidence again? AGAIN?!? You people.... Santa needs a fcking break...

*sigh*