Beyond Bigelow & BAASS, After AATIP and on To the Stars...

originally posted by: celltypespecific
This is a central piece to the puzzle !
Most will not appreciate the significance of this.

There you go. Remember last week when I said Lt. Col. Kurth could have been the one that leaked the video.

originally posted by: spiritualarchitect

Those are very good questions. If the video was leaked by a Marine - or any one of the other nearly 6'000 people serving on the Nimitz or Princeton - why is it not the full video? Why would Joe Blow serviceman edit the video? Why would or any one else not named `Government/Military Big Shot` - give us a censored video? Why would they edit the video down? It is not like it would weigh less when they put it in their pocket.

Remember when I said you sounded like Lue, that was because You told me that the original was not released because it could give away too much screen info to the Chinese and Russians about the FLIR capabilities. Your statement makes sense, which seems to mean that what we are seeing is a government censored video.

But let's look at the Big Shot Roswell angle. Thanks to American - make that World Hero - Lt. Col. Blanchard, we know about the alien crafts that crashed at Roswell. If not for him getting out that press release, we would have never known.

So with that in mind, maybe it was Lt. Col. Kurth who released the video? He was the Commanding Officer of the VMFA-232. He was the first one to fly over the water disturbance which he described as 50 to 100 meters in diameter and close to round. He said it looked like something rapidly submerging from the surface like a submarine or ship sinking.

Maybe Kurth edited it down because of the FLIR info - or some other info that he was privy too - which was shown or spoken? Maybe he wanted to get it out to the world at large but did not want to give away too much information?

That could explain why there was only one video released. It was a military release - but not an official one.

a reply to: celltypespecific

How is your mailbox holding up?

originally posted by: spiritualarchitect
a reply to: celltypespecific

How is your mailbox holding up?

Got your note!
Thanks!

originally posted by: spiritualarchitect
a reply to: celltypespecific

How is your mailbox holding up?

Great analysis...... you might be on to something.

originally posted by: spiritualarchitect
But let's look at the Big Shot Roswell angle. Thanks to American - make that World Hero - Lt. Col. Blanchard, we know about the alien crafts that crashed at Roswell. If not for him getting out that press release, we would have never known.

Can I set you a task? Could you to refer me to ANY contemporary report or comment by anyone (in the USAF, a witness, or public comment) from July/August 1947 that even began to consider that what crashed at Roswell was anything ET-related?

The press release itself is the most damning evidence that ET was not under consideration, especially when describing the broken sticks and tin-foil Brazel collected from his field in June 1947 and kept under a brush until the subsequent Kenneth Arnold sighting caused a national concern about potential foreign Cold War spy vehicles or "flying discs" - not alien craft. Even public opinion polls at the time failed to consider the ET angle as Roswell quickly disappeared from the public eye until Jesse Marcel's miraculous alien epiphany in the late-1970s.

It is one reason why the recent rumour that Jesse Marcel's journals from the period could soon be released is so important, providing the very first contemporary mention of an alien hypothesis - IF the journals exist... but that trail seems to have turned cold; they may be as real as the 'Hitler diaries'.

Interestingly, the father of Kent Jeffrey (a Delta Air Lines pilot) knew Blanchard, leading Kent to be invited to a special reunion in 1996:

Because his father had known Colonel Blanchard of the 509th Bomb Command, Jeffrey was able to wangle an invitation to the 1996 reunion of the 509th. There he met pilots stationed at Roswell in 1947, most of whom, he found, had "heard nothing about the supposed crashed-saucer incident until years later, after all the publicity started." After chasing down other sources suggested by 509th pilots, Jeffrey was convinced. "In essence," he says, "the 1947 Roswell case has turned out to be a red herring, diverting time and resources away from research into the real UFO phenomenon."

The late, great Stanton Friedman definitely started a new ball rolling in 1978 with the fresh "alien" angle to Roswell, turning a 1947 non-story into virtually a new religion - and a suitable companion piece for Bob Lazar's S4 tale 11 years later (although Stanton vehemently condemned Lazar as a fraudster).

And the money keeps rolling in...

originally posted by: ConfusedBrit

originally posted by: 1point92AU
... your physicist who "destroys" Lazar presents absolutely ZERO evidence to back his claims on WHAT REALLY HAPPENED. LOL.

Nobody has ANY evidence to back either side of this argument in terms of what went on in S4. If indeed ANYTHING anomalous went on there. As mentioned previously, it is impossible to deal with an unfalsifiable claim such as Lazar's.

Not exactly. They could open the place up and let people roam freely and see for themselves what is and isn't there. It could at least provide corroborating evidence to Bob's claims.

originally posted by: mirageman

originally posted by: Sublant

Well was he?

Why is it with you a constant barrage of accusations and innuendo of bad deeds and questionable motives of people who witness or talk about the phenomena?

Yes Sherman was paid to stay on at the ranch and silenced by Bigelow.

It was posted in October : www.abovetopsecret.com...

Sherman, now employed by Bigelow to maintain the ranch, said he can no longer discuss the activity because of a nondisclosure agreement Bigelow had him sign.

Eugene Register Oct 24th 1996

Do I have to keep citing the same sources every time I post information already sourced in the thread because you are too lazy to search yourself or have a really bad memory or whatever it is that is your problem?

You have never authored a single thread and rarely, if ever, cited a single source in this thread . You seem content to snipe at others with one liners from the sidelines and continually spit your dummy out of your pram like a little baby. Stop reacting so emotionally. If you have substantive evidence other than what's in your own head start citing your sources.

Like I've said before, if you don't like what's being said here, then write up your own thread and tell people what your own conclusions are from your own research. It might reduce some of that negativity you have boiling inside of you.

And that to you is the same as "a paid stooge"?

stooge
/stuːdʒ/
noun
noun: stooge; plural noun: stooges

1.
derogatory

Nice attempt at deflection, but could you answer the original question?

Why constant attacks, demeaning comments and use of derogatory language towards those willing to talk about the phenomena.

originally posted by: Sublant

Not exactly. They could open the place up and let people roam freely and see for themselves what is and isn't there. It could at least provide corroborating evidence to Bob's claims.

That would be a great idea but highly unlikely due to the secret work carried out there since the 1950s. Watch George Knapp's excellent interview with his ex boss at KLAS, Bob Stoldal, who had looked into the Area 51 story long before John Lear and Lazar introduced aliens into the mix in 1989.

Even if such an invite were made to certain members of the public, would you trust the managers and staff to not hide way crucial evidence? It would most likely be evidence of a sensitive nature related to national security rather than ET craft, but it's possible nothing will ever satisfy the more suspicious-minded.

Bob Stoldal was brave to allow Knapp to go ahead with the "tabloid"-flavoured Lazar story despite his own misgivings about the lack of corroborating evidence and many "unanswered questions", but the public response to the initial "Dennis" interview was so enormous that you and I would most likely similarly bow down to what our viewers desired, despite our (or rather my) own doubts!

As mentioned above, the late, great Stanton Friedman was one of Lazar's staunchest critics despite promoting the Roswell story which has just as many holes in it.

originally posted by: Sublant
[Directed at Mirageman]
Why constant attacks, demeaning comments and use of derogatory language towards those willing to talk about the phenomena.

That's just it - they are not "constant". This isn't my fight but, from my own POV, I must say that Mirageman is usually a gentleman and a scholar of the utmost integrity and politeness, with a nice streak of humour, too.

You seemed to have hit a nerve, though, so maybe it is worth considering what he actually said to you rather than the manner in which he said it (which, as I said, is not typical).

a reply to: Sublant

And that to you is the same as "a paid stooge"?

stooge
/stuːdʒ/
noun
noun: stooge; plural noun: stooges

1.
derogatory

Whoops no source cited yet again.

But if you had to look it up and then get the meaning wrong what can I say?

Here is how I used the term and its definition from the Cambridge English dictionary;

Stooge

a person who is forced or paid by someone in authority to do an unpleasant or secret job for them.

dictionary.cambridge.org...

Therefore Sherman was in effect Bigelow's "stooge" because he was under NDA (i.e "secret"). That is what I meant and is confirmed in the source cited earlier in the thread. I hope that clarifies it.

Nice attempt at deflection, but could you answer the original question? Why constant attacks, demeaning comments and use of derogatory language towards those willing to talk about the phenomena.

Is that not an attempt at deflection yourself?

So please list, quote, and link to the posts where I have made constant attacks, demeaning comments and use of derogatory language to those willing to talk about "the phenomenon" (please also define the phenomenon). If you feel it is constant then I would expect well over a dozen such examples. Which I will then gladly address and clarify for you one by one.

You have failed to address questions asked of you in this thread and probably forgot them now. But we can go back through them one by one too. Let's start with why you haven't written a thread up yourself with your own conclusions which I asked a few days ago?

When I (and others) don't post things you want to nod your head and agree with this makes you rather anxious, frustrated, angry and annoyed at those posters for not doing so. But you also fail to research and cite sources to back up anything you post here. Instead you rely on hitting back with accusations or barbed questions to try and score another point for yourself. But what is the point?

Surely channelling your energy into something more productive would make sense?

So what's stopping you? Why haven't you written up your own thread yet?

a reply to: mirageman

I did always find the fact that Sherman stayed on at the ranch as a little odd. Didn't they buy another ranch only about 15 miles down the road from SWR?

If it had "happened" to me and my family I'd want to get as far away as possible, not stay on as caretaker at the same terrifying location and only move 10mins down the road.

Curious...

originally posted by: Sublant
It could at least provide corroborating evidence to Bob's claims.

Check your mailbox.

a reply to: pigsy2400

What's even more mysterious is why you would sell up to a billionaire for a lower price than two other offers?

The whole ordeal has been difficult for the Shermans, who say they lost money on the sale. Sherman said he was offered more money by a Colorado family and a local hunting club but did not want to put anyone at risk.

"It's just been a bad deal all the way around," he said. "All that's really redeeming is that you have some knowledge that a lot of people don't have, for what it's worth."

Eugene Register Oct 24th 1996

Why did he feel he could put Bigelow at risk? A man who could have at least matched the higher offers given his millions? Or is there something more to that story too????

Wooo shock"!!!! the insinuation of "conspiracy" on a conspiracy site.......

a reply to: mirageman

200 grand for that ranch and he got to keep a job at the ranch may be a good deal depending on what it was worth.

Of course, I have no knowledge of whether that is a good price for a ranch.

I would think at least a million for a ranch with ghosts.

Pigs makes a good point. If the ranch was so spooky, I wonder why he agreed to stay on there?


I wonder does Bigelow think he was scammed since the ranch obviously didn’t stand up to its reputation.

originally posted by: mirageman
a reply to: pigsy2400

What's even more mysterious is why you would sell up to a billionaire for a lower price than two other offers?

The only reason that would make sense to me is if the job offer came with the sale to Bigelow that was worth more than the extra purchase price in the other two offers. That could in effect result in the largest money transfer to the seller even if some of the money was in future salary rather than selling price.

Doesn't this book play a role ?

1974: The Utah UFO Display: A Scientist's Report by Frank Salisbury and Joseph "Junior" Hicks,

originally posted by: celltypespecific

Why does Cellty always delete their posts? I see this a lot

a reply to: karl 12

Yep Karl. Some very interesting comments from Frank's book after he'd spoken to Garth Myers whose family had owned the ranch for decades before the Shermans.

Salisbury's conclusions after his research on the ranch and the unusual reports....

• "Junior Hicks has been visiting the ranch virtually from the time the witness family [Tom Sherman's] bought it, and he is thus able to confirm that he heard most of the accounts shortly after the events happened." (p217)

• Garth Myers - "...I can tell you unequivocally that up to 1992 there had never been and there never was any sign of that (UFOs and similar activity)" (p218) [Sherman moved into the ranch in 1994.]

• "...the 'Hunt for the Skinwalker' version of the ranch's history is badly distorted..." (p222.)

• The 'Skinwalker' statement that "...the greatest concentration of high strangeness has always taken place at what became the Sherman's 480 acre ranch" is not correct

• "...I assumed that Knapp had many in-depth interviews with the witness while writing the book...the witness didn't even know the book was being written about his family's experiences until 'Skinwalker' was published. And he had never met George Knapp...How's that for careful research!" (p224)

• "...the witness...said that many things in their book only resembled a true accounting of his experiences." (p224)

• "...I want to emphasis that much of 'Hunt for the Skinwalker' is excellent.." (p242)

Source : The Utah UFO Display - Frank B. Salisbury PhD [Book]

Former MUFON State Director for Utah and abduction researcher - Elaine Douglass also recorded some very interesting information from Frank in her files. Perhaps Big Bob was getting a bit upset about his purchase. If that story is true of course?


Originally Sourced From : Elaine Douglass Files (now dead link www.elainedouglassfiles.com...)