Beyond Bigelow & BAASS, After AATIP and on To the Stars...

originally posted by: beetee
I think he said that in his AMA.

I had no idea that DeLonge had done an AMA for ATS in 2016. So I looked it up... The most disastrous AMA ever? A plug for a book, a few random monosyllabic comments that ancient Gods and Roswell aliens are real, plus other unsubstantiated junk. And then he buggered off after 20 minutes without so much as a 'Thanks, bye'.

Toe-curling from start to finish. Rather like TTSA, then.

a reply to: ConfusedBrit

You are perhaps a wee bit too hasty. I assume you mean this ?

www.abovetopsecret.com...&mem=TomDeLonge

There are interesting rabbit hole trinkets in there.

a reply to: Baablacksheep

"Fist, the world is a bit boring."



ETA, why can't we quote from that thread? I didn't realise there was a time limit on such things - never noticed such before.

Thanks for linking, it is indeed replete with tit-bits.

a reply to: vortimond

It's a subtle point, but can anyone show a point where Elizondo has used the word 'alien' apart from in reference to someone else's question?

originally posted by: beetee

Elizondos background is in Counterintelligence. If i remember correctly DeLonge stated that the main argument they were not getting the Bennewitz treatment was that they were not dealing with CI types jut "regular intelligence" people. I think he said that in his AMA. A bit ironic, I guess, if so.

Funny you mention that because I came across some information in an article on Jack Brewer's blog titled MUFON Grievances Lead to Continuing Accountability Issues. Part of that article included an email exchange between Jack and MUFON Director of Investigations Chase Kloetzke. Kloetzke's memory of her talk with Elizondo included the following:

I was the first to conduct an interview with Lue as we both live in DC. (He has recently moved to Ca). I asked pretty blunt questions and I felt that he answered truthfully.

However, I never forget that he is very good at his job and he did have ONE tour in intelligence. I believe his experience in the intelligence community is outside of his military career and after his retirement. His job with AATIP was as a defense contractor.

  

a reply to: ConfusedBrit

The DeLonge AMA here left a lot of people both puzzled and disappointed. I think, in retrospect, it was the first hint that those already interested in this topic are not at the top of anyones list at TTSA.

Not the target audience, as has been admitted by both Delonge and Elizondo.

Delonge said a lot of crazy stuff, and someone even made a summary on reddit of all the "answers". A bit easier to read, although I'm not sure how complete it is.

a reply to: ctj83

That's true, he doesn't talk about beings at all, only about the technology. He's trying to build a bridge between the rational and the paranormal. But right now, I'm thinking about those beings and my computer starts acting a little bit strange. The screen goes off for a second and I don't remember switching the audio output.

a reply to: The GUT

That's interesting.

Do you feel the Counterintelligence angle has any significance?

I find it hard to forget that CI is, among other things, to misdirect and confuse.

He seems rather open about it, even when he didn't have to.

a reply to: beetee

The best place to hide is in plain sight, even if your double/triple bluffing...

I'd much prefer to have a conversation with Dr James T Lacatski.....even if he worked in intelligence at least he has some scientific credentials.

originally posted by: beetee

Do you feel the Counterintelligence angle has any significance?

I find it hard to forget that CI is, among other things, to misdirect and confuse.

My main thought about the IC connections is that these are generally lifelong allegiances.

Those that do buck the system from a crisis of conscience--or other motivations--are at the very least ostracized and often much worse.

Seemingly the IC has never come down on Team Bigelow/NIDS/Aviary. To the contrary they have continued to use them as contractors.

It is, of course, possible that TTSA is a CI op to throw off other adversarial superpowers. Pandolphi is said to have run such an operation within ufology/phenomenology. He allegedly even suspected Kit Green & Doty of enemy collaboration at one point years ago (another interesting email chain.) That could easily have been misdirection however.

Having said all that, I don't think the TTSA stuff is that kind of operation. That's not to say it's not a counter-intelligence operation because my opinion at this point is that it basically is---just not aimed a fooling Russia or China but the public at large.

originally posted by: Willtell
a reply to: ctj83


Green I think in that book says he doesn’t even believe in the reality of UFOs.

A few years after this book he took part in the Serpo hoax with Doty and Puthoff.

These guys are dangerous and should NEVER be trusted. They have some kind of fetish in hoaxing believers then studying their responses.

I just wrote about the role of Hal Puthoff, Rick Doty, and Kit Green in promoting the SERPO hoax:

Green is obviously very concerned about "who knows what we are doing here?" Frankly, this smells quite suspicious. Note that the website the "Team of Five" is worried about is serpo.info, which is a site debunking the SERPO story. According to Shawwna at that website, "The "Team of 5" consists of: Christopher 'Kit' Green, MD, Harold Puthoff, Richard C. Doty, Victor Martinez, and Bill Ryan. In other words, they are frantic to find out 'who has been leaking information about us to the debunking website?' Puthoff and Green owe us a very good explanation of their role in the SERPO hoax and the "Team of Five" if they want to be taken seriously.

badufos.blogspot.com...

a reply to: RobertSheaffer

I might have it wrong but as far as your blog post a possible small correction, I was thinking Shawnna’s serpo.info came later and the Team of 5 were initially worried about the investigation being done at reality uncovered.net? Shawnna was a part of the original trio of investigators (Broadbent, Dube, and Shawnna.) Exceptionally bright and nice lady.

Their Serpo investigation began here at ATS where they were members. I believe Ryan Dube is still a member and might pop in if asked.

Here’s an ATS OP from early on. Sad that it only has 6 flags and never really took off (maybe even somewhat suspicious that it didn't) but there’s a few interesting observations to be made by reading through it I think. Project Serpo blown wide open-exclusive expose

From your link:

Green is obviously very concerned about "who knows what we are doing here?" Frankly, this smells quite suspicious. Note that the website the "Team of Five" is worried about is serpo.info, which is a site debunking the SERPO story.

According to Shawwna at that website, "The "Team of 5" consists of: Christopher 'Kit' Green, MD, Harold Puthoff, Richard C. Doty, Victor Martinez, and Bill Ryan  In other words, they are frantic to find out 'who has been leaking information about us to the debunking website?'

Puthoff and Green owe us a very good explanation of their role in the SERPO hoax and the "Team of Five" if they want to be taken seriously.

Yes they do owe an explanation if they want to be considered credible to any degree. Glad to see you pointed that out for your audience.

The most definitive account of Serpo and our cast of characters is Shawnna’s site and the original investigation at Reality Uncovered: Project Serpo Uncovered.

a reply to: RobertSheaffer

I love this stuff getting out.

a reply to: beetee

What a guy like TDL and many others get wrong is that anyone and I mean ANYONE… ALL OF THEM from the government particularly the armed forces and IC HAVE NO INTEREST IN ANY DISCLOSURE OF UFO information BEING EXPOSED TO THE PUBLIC…NONE…NIL…ZOOT!
With all due respect to TDL, he is ignorant and naive thinking any disclosure will come from any branch of the US government on any level
These people are trained for certain things and disclosing UFO information is not in their training.
They are hard-nosed, almost fanatic agents of the US government defense structure which has not an iota of interest in disclosure.

a reply to: KilgoreTrout

I would guess these "cabals" are those with religious views on these subjects that has been alluded to in the past by Elizondo and others.

Redfern has done some research into this, no?

I am guessing our particular cabal would be the "stay away from it, it's all evil" bunch from Redferns research.

I bet there are other "cabals" too in a big place such as the Pentagon, which (it has to be said) seems to harbour a lot of eccentrics of all persuasions.

a reply to: beetee

I've suggested this a few times, but honestly, I think Redfern has hit on something real. The only mistake is that many assume that there is the Collins Elite and then the non religious other side.

Yet, as I mentioned look who is not saying alien. Elizondo, TTSA, Dr Nolan, Dr Green. At most, we have had the phrase 'others'. We don't get alien or extra terrestrial.

I'm of the opinion that this can be seen in the use of language. I suspect that the only divider is between Evangelical, eschaton obsessed group (Collins Elite) and a group that is both occult and Catholic / Anglo / Anglican Catholic.

Now, if I were to assign Pandolfi and Dan Smith to one group, I feel it's more likely to been the Eschaton side.

Those connected with Pasulka are clearly more aligned to a Catholic / Anglican tradition and hold quite different views.

a reply to: The GUT

There is quote, that I feels relates to SERPO, that is roughly like this "I did not mean to suggest that the core story was created by RV. Rather RV was involved to the extent of getting the core story into the government record.

Which, to me, suggests that when people like Pat Price went snooping at Sugar Grove facilities, they found the core story. This was then, by it's nature declassified by the use of RV, and entered into the records of the usual intelligence agencies.

Of course, this becomes quite suspect if you believe that Remote Viewing was really a method for the soviets to create a false source and method of information.



Russell Targ (above) and Puthoff (above?) may or may not have had genuine successes with Remote Viewing. However, there is sufficient circumstantial evidence from the documentary Third Eye Spies that other organisations were both injecting and extracting information using Remote Viewing.

In which case, who was the creator of MJ12 / AlIntel?

a reply to: ctj83

Just came across this article on Pasulkas book:

Belief in aliens could be America's next religion

I strikes me as a bit simplistic, but has some points. I cannot escape the cargo-cult irony of it all.

I think that we are most likely seeing people interpret the world from pre-existing beliefs, as they always have. The Esalen crowd came into this with some strongly held beliefs about human potential and consciousness, mixed with a good helping of eastern mystisism and religion.

The evangelical / catholic fractions are doing the same.

Ironically, one could be tempted to observe (with Levenda) that this is how cargo cults have incorporated technology they didn't understand into their pre-existing beliefs in the past.

I just watched a documentart about recently contacted peoples in the Amazon.
One described, regarding religious beliefs, how the tribe believed that when they died they floated down the river and then flew into the sky to a big hut. White people, however, were taken by the "giant things that went brrrrrr" (airplanes) to their own place.

Not so different from what both the Esalen crowd and the evangelicals are doing.

a reply to: beetee

As a slight detour, I'd like to quote Ryan Robbin's Twitter (AKA UFO Jesus). I've called Ryan out before, he generally has great logic and deductive reasoning, and I can fully get that UFO Jesus is a character he plays. I simply get concerned that he's not alway using his excellent skill set to analyse the unusual nature of this 'disclosure' process.

For the past few months though, I've been talking about the 'retconning' or 'walking back' of the narrative. It doesn't mean TTSA are a scam, and nor does it mean they are delivering what they claim. It simply means that this whole 'disclosure' process bares repeated and uncanny resemblances to those of the past.

I'm still MAJORLY pumped from Elizondo's speech. This buzz will probably not ware off for a few months... and by the time it does the History channel 'Unidentified' will go live. And then I'll be pumped again. The Disclosure process is my perpetual drug.

How was the big announcement at the start of 2019 so easily forgotten?
How was the major reveal of March acceptable as just being a TV show?
How can anyone believe in a transparent disclosure process, when by it's very nature, this show will be revealing things shot in summer 2018 and then HELD back for over six months?

Look at who has been producing content. Are they producing more or less now?

Am I the only one to notice that straight after the Nolan interview, John Burroughs is telling people 'disclosure isn't happening. No way.'