Something is breaking in Hanoi

a reply to: putnam6

Basically there isn't any big different today then years ago. People are so used to being con'ed by government leaders.

Kim isn't going to nuke the US or anyone else. He knows his days are over if he does.

How much money does the MIC lose with peace between the Korea's and no US troops guarding to border.

a reply to: MadLad

One thing to keep an eye on is North Korean propaganda.

They already do that. Japan can easily pick up broadcasts from North Korea's state-run news agency, and that is a major point of their propaganda.

It would be interesting to see if that has changed in light of the two summits, as well as how the results are being spun inside Kim's iron curtain. I do agree with you that there has been progress outside that iron curtain.

TheRedneck
(Gotta run out for a few hours, but I'll be back)

originally posted by: roadgravel
a reply to: putnam6

Basically there isn't any big different today then years ago. People are so used to being con'ed by government leaders.

Kim isn't going to nuke the US or anyone else. He knows his days are over if he does.

LOL give me a break his missiles were splashing in the sea of Japan, Democrats warned Trump would have us at war with NK and China or were they just lying to begin with. I mean an ATSer can figure that out certainly the Democrats should be able to. Right...

How come Korea is the only place that hasn't fallen? The US has effected changes in any country that it didn't trust or stood in it's way.

Why not North Korea. Maybe it isn't really a problem or the US has nothing to gain or the MIC will loose revenue.

Only the CIA knows for sure.

a reply to: roadgravel

Agreed and by the same token, probably does not want to be negotiated toward sitting duck status either.

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: network dude

the fact that you seem to be enjoying this as a win,

No. The fact is that this was what was expected. The fact is that Trump was played. The fact is that Trump can do nothing, short of invading North Korea, to cause Kim to give up his nukes.

Do you think that invading North Korea is a good plan?

I didn't know you got high, but cool, try not to post when you are lit up. Now read my post as many times as it takes, and see if you can find me advocating for war. I'll offer you a hint, I'm not at all for war. I think it's ignorant and the ones who die, aren't the ones who started it.

Now, peace in NK is something I would like to see. In the past, politicians didn't try to find a way for peace with Kim. Trump is trying. Even if you hate him for being Trump, you still really don't have a choice in acknowledging his efforts. God how I miss the old Phage who thought instead of whatever if is you are doing now.

So Trump says one thing and Kim Jong Un says another on why the talks broke down and we're sitting here a year later looking at a situation we called out in the summer as this charade was getting underway.

Now we have the situation the smart people were afraid of and were warning the others about - this now leaves two wounded animals and leaves us in a situation worse than it was before Trump started something he knows nothing about.

At least this website didn't have a lot of self-proclaimed geniuses who were calling for Nobel prizes and buying up overpriced and useless commemorative coins. Actually, not so useless - frame it on a wall as a reminder of falling for a liar and being a fool.

One final thing surprised me about this: as much as I am certain Kim Jong Un is a liar, I do not know whose story to believe here. I think we're actually in a situation where we found someone less credible than Kim Jong Un - Donald Trump. Yes, Kim lies, we know he does, but we just don't know how much. I don't know if he lied 9,000 in public over the last two years - we do know Trump did.

Kim may be a liar, but Trump is a much older and more practiced pathological liar. Neither of these stories should be believed at this point until we are able to hear from other officials on what happened.

a reply to: Phage


His arrogance and total lack of meaningful experience set us up for a humiliating withdrawal from negotiations while making Kim look like a hero to his people.

originally posted by: roadgravel
How come Korea is the only place that hasn't fallen? The US has effected changes in any country that it didn't trust or stood in it's way.

Why not North Korea. Maybe it isn't really a problem or the US has nothing to gain or the MIC will loose revenue.

Only the CIA knows for sure.

Same answer as to why we didn't just kick their butt in the war...China...

originally posted by: 0zzymand0s

His arrogance and total lack of meaningful experience set us up for a humiliating withdrawal from negotiations while making Kim look like a hero to his people.

Oh the horrors if he looks like a hero to his people... boy that is a huge hit on the US...lol You do know they see him as a God already, right?

The point was to have him travel 2000 miles to see what the real world looks like and what he could have in NK if he so chooses.

a reply to: Xtrozero

Yeah, I mentioned China in another post. China is up at the top of the list.

a reply to: Duderino

Now we have the situation the smart people were afraid of and were warning the others about - this now leaves two wounded animals and leaves us in a situation worse than it was before Trump started something he knows nothing about.

Worse?

How exactly is it worse?

Two years ago, there were nuclear tests being detected within North Korea using seismic monitoring. Two years ago, there were rockets flying towards Japan. Two years ago, Kim Jong Un and Moon Jae In were not speaking. Two years ago, anyone in the DMZ between North Korea and South Korea was shot on sight. Two years ago, Kim Jong Un was openly threatening nuclear war, with a lot of attention to Guam and Japan. Two years ago, North Korea was holding the remains of fallen vets as trophies, causing heartbreak to many families. Two years ago, North Korea was holding hostages, like Otto Wambier, who was finally returned... brain dead.

There have been no recent nuclear tests detected. There have been no missile launches recently. Kim Jong Un and Moon Jae In met in the middle of the DMZ and discussed a united Korean Olympian team. Kim Jong Un has, at least verbally, agreed to some form of denuclearization. The remains of our veterans have been returned. Our hostages have been returned.

And not one red cent has been given to North Korea. Not one sanction has been lifted. The only thing we had to do was agree to talk to Kim Jong Un. Twice. Just twice.

Pray tell, what in that list of changes is so bad that nuclear war would be preferable?

TheRedneck

a reply to: TheRedneck

It should not be happening but

How do you know NK hasn't been given money? It's not like the US government hasn't hidden things in the past.

a reply to: Phage

You suddenly became inelegant. Is this TDS stage 3?

And also are you assuming a convicted liar is telling the truth?

At the same time calling the President the liar?

a reply to: kingparrot

TDS...

It's like that idiot that goes around calling everyone an idiot. Sad.

Trump's been played like a fiddle, the missile don't need to be tested, the nuclear weapons don't need to be tested. It was all a show. Trump wasn't even president when they launched assets into space, that was 4 years ago. They've clearly worked on it a while.

I'm no rocket scientist or nuclear physicist yet I can understand that there's two main things to work on now for them. Miniaturization of the warhead and accuracy of delivery... The projectile works. They claim both.

Why was Kim Jong-nam killed again? What was he supposedly sourcing for the regime?

This is like the opposite of Iran and it's nuclear ambitions. With one we've heard screams of "wolf!" and the warnings of imminent danger since I can remember.

NK?

People have it in their minds that you can tame a beast with niceties, don't stroke the wolf.

originally posted by: 0zzymand0s
a reply to: Phage


His arrogance and total lack of meaningful experience set us up for a humiliating withdrawal from negotiations while making Kim look like a hero to his people.

He's looking like a hero to conservatives as well bizarrely enough...

a reply to: Xtrozero

He knows fine well what the rest of the world looks like. He was educated in the west and people like us would never be privvy to where he travels or has travelled. Be realistic.

The regime isn't stupid.

originally posted by: RAY1990
a reply to: kingparrot

TDS...

It's like that idiot that goes around calling everyone an idiot. Sad.

Trump's been played like a fiddle, the missile don't need to be tested, the nuclear weapons don't need to be tested. It was all a show. Trump wasn't even president when they launched assets into space, that was 4 years ago. They've clearly worked on it a while.

I'm no rocket scientist or nuclear physicist yet I can understand that there's two main things to work on now for them. Miniaturization of the warhead and accuracy of delivery... The projectile works. They claim both.

Why was Kim Jong-nam killed again? What was he supposedly sourcing for the regime?

This is like the opposite of Iran and it's nuclear ambitions. With one we've heard screams of "wolf!" and the warnings of imminent danger since I can remember.

NK?

People have it in their minds that you can tame a beast with niceties, don't stroke the wolf.

Trump has threatened NK with nuclear annihilation twice now. So much for niceties.

I guess it's damned if you do, damned if you don't.