Something is breaking in Hanoi

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: TheRedneck

Yes, he has done more than any President since the Korean War to foster peaceful relations.

By giving a Kim some sort of prestige on the world stage? Against the counsel of ... everybody?

You...you dont... you dont think the cessation of missile tests was worth a little "prestige"?

Well we COULD have peace but that would mean giving actual precious reserves of PRESTIGE to an undeserving pig! We certainly arent going to do THAT are we? Prestige is to be reserved for deserving folks who have earned it, like, you know, Brad Pitt and Angelina Jolie, and JayZ and Beyonce... you know, REAL heroes!

I know I'm just using a metaphor....but thats the sound of our Liberty Bell cracking even more...*

*ETA Nothing good came of dealing with his Grandpa., Poppa K. and now fat-boy Baby K.

originally posted by: 3n19m470

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: TheRedneck

but I had Fox on in the background

Whelp. There's the problem right there.

I know, why watch a channel with conservative, libertarian and conservative views and hosts when you could just watch CNN or MSNBC and be exposed to 100% progressive liberalism 100% of the time!? Who needs to hear both sides of any story before they can make up their minds?? What are they, stupid?

Yep. They know all about Fox and everything Fox reports because they never watch it. But obama hated it because they exposed him. So all liberals hate it and think it's the boogeyman because that's what their commanders tell them. Pretty pitiful really.

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: randomtangentsrme

A dictator of a country dosn't gain prestige or validation by other countries attempting negotiations.

He doesn't give a crap about other countries. (And when I say "he" I mean both of them.)

Unless you have some insight on how to negotiate with NK without involving the Dictator?

I'm not a diplomat or do I have access to the intelligence assets of the United States so I pay attention to those who do. Trump is not, and does not.

You are a mind reader now. Didnt know you were one to dabble in woo... Please tell me, who DOES give a crap about other countries? So I know who to vote for.

Phage,
You’ve stated clearly and provided a source showing that the previous two administrations have not paid North Korea for peace, or anything else for that matter. This simple, but important fact is ignored by the trump mouthpieces which frequent this site. Despite the fact that several of them have suggested that trump has achieved something because he’s not throwing cash at North Koreafor peace, they ignore your post and move on. They Refuse to respond to this point and instead post their usual nuggets of opinion usually with no evidence to support themselves. It’s the same individuals over and over. ATS scholars patting each other on the back, it’s a jerk circle, one big daisy chain. You’ve made them look stupid in this instance. Noice

MAGA

to a reply to: Phage

The only failure surrounds those who hate? Did you grab that from a Bruce Lee inspirational meme or what?
When the president of the USA leaves the party without a reach around, poled by a nasty little dictator after said president has spent the afternoon tossing said dictators salad, that’s a loss. Like it or not. Doesn’t matter if trump walked out, he’s given North Korea a stage. This is a win for North Korea. a reply to: TheRedneck

originally posted by: TheRedneck
Not much info yet, but I had Fox on in the background and they interrupted with a report that the press conference has been moved up. That could be good news (Rocket Man is retiring his rockets), or bad (Kim has decided to end the talks).

Earlier today, he seemed to be pretty blunt. When asked if he was willing to accept denuclearization, he responded, "If I wasn't, I wouldn't be here." He seems to be someone who speaks his mind.

The crawl is saying it is a news conference with Trump after meeting with Kim. That part worries me; if it was good news, wouldn't both of them be giving the conference jointly?

Latest update: it is a solo news conference, verified.

TheRedneck

Yes. Another failed Trump negotiation has gone down in Hanoi.

originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: AngryCymraeg

Apparently the talks went nowhere because both sides badly misread the other at the first talks.

That actually sounds feasible. Translation between Chinese and English results in things like "not touching of high voltage is recommended for cause of death." It's funny many times, aggravating others, but it underscores just how dissimilar the two cultures are. Korea is likely very similar in that dissimilarity with Western culture and concepts, perhaps even more so since North Korea has never experienced life without a supposed demi-god for a dictator.

TheRedneck

Frankly it highlights the need for consultation with experts with specialised local knowledge who understand the language used by the other side. North Korea is a despotic supposedly communist (this is a very complicated subject) dictatorship that has had one family in charge of it since 1945. The language used is always going to be subtly (or sometimes violently) different in terms of some concepts.

It shows a complete lack of negotiating skills. Team usa should have been prepared for this. It is not hard to figure that neither side is going to completely give in first and the only path would be step by step. Removing one sanction at a time in return for compromises.

You all should ask yourselves the question if this is all a show and no real thought of removing capabilities was ever on the table and potus from the start just made a deal with kim that if he would stop firing rockets then kim could continue everything else cause potus needed a victory lap with his tds base. It took the fake news to even suggest a liaison office.


A true modern day love story!

originally posted by: sligtlyskeptical

originally posted by: TheRedneck
Not much info yet, but I had Fox on in the background and they interrupted with a report that the press conference has been moved up. That could be good news (Rocket Man is retiring his rockets), or bad (Kim has decided to end the talks).

Earlier today, he seemed to be pretty blunt. When asked if he was willing to accept denuclearization, he responded, "If I wasn't, I wouldn't be here." He seems to be someone who speaks his mind.

The crawl is saying it is a news conference with Trump after meeting with Kim. That part worries me; if it was good news, wouldn't both of them be giving the conference jointly?

Latest update: it is a solo news conference, verified.

TheRedneck

Yes. Another failed Trump negotiation has gone down in Hanoi.

It was Kim who came crawling back to the table. Trump snubbed them last time, threatened them, and left an open invitation to try again. Who came crawling?

My guess is Trump seen once again that there was to many private entities controlling the show and didn't want to waste his time.


I think the days of having a Summit are over as one can just look at our Potus and his face to see the charade going on!

I love reading all the posts by deranged liberals salivating over any potential failure of the peace process on the Korean Peninsula.

a reply to: kingparrot

Did you grab that from a Bruce Lee inspirational meme or what?

No.

Nothing else in your post is worthy of response. I am not going to respond to any more posts that are nothing but hatred over identity politics in this thread. I did not start it in the mud pit for a reason. This is the WWIII forum, so people can intelligently discuss the issues.

That goes for the other posters as well. No more hate.

TheRedneck

a reply to: AngryCymraeg

Frankly it highlights the need for consultation with experts with specialised local knowledge who understand the language used by the other side.

Frankly, as ideal as that would be, it's a pretty tall order. The only people who understand the North Korean regime are those who live under the North Korean regime, and they are forbidden under penalty of death from even talking to anyone else by the North Korean regime. Those few who have defected typically don't want anything to do with North Korea, and I can't say I blame them.

There's more to a culture than the language.

The closest we can get is likely China or South Korea... Trump has been touting China's help with the negotiations, and I know he is in regular contact with Moon Jae-In of South Korea. But even then, as close as those cultures may have once been, living under an absolute dictatorship for more than a generation changes everything. Even their religion revolves around "Dear Leader" and his offspring.

TheRedneck

originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: AngryCymraeg

Frankly it highlights the need for consultation with experts with specialised local knowledge who understand the language used by the other side.

Frankly, as ideal as that would be, it's a pretty tall order. The only people who understand the North Korean regime are those who live under the North Korean regime, and they are forbidden under penalty of death from even talking to anyone else by the North Korean regime. Those few who have defected typically don't want anything to do with North Korea, and I can't say I blame them.

There's more to a culture than the language.

The closest we can get is likely China or South Korea... Trump has been touting China's help with the negotiations, and I know he is in regular contact with Moon Jae-In of South Korea. But even then, as close as those cultures may have once been, living under an absolute dictatorship for more than a generation changes everything. Even their religion revolves around "Dear Leader" and his offspring.

TheRedneck

I do think it’s funny that Trump failed but that is only for my amusement. I had high displaced hopes for the meeting. But turns out they were displaced unfortunately.
Maybe we should go about this a different way. Let Moon and Kim talk out the negotiations amongst themselves. If Sk and Nk can come up with sensible steps to peace without the US in the face of NK maybe more can get done. The only issue with that would be that any administration wants to have a say in that region and understandably so. We have many bases and assets near that area.

a reply to: Allaroundyou

I think that's actually part of the plan. Trump did not ask for this meeting; Kim did, apparently in an attempt to get the sanctions lifted.

That tells me that the sanctions actually need to stay in place. As long as they are there, we have bargaining leverage and so does South Korea.

TheRedneck

originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: AngryCymraeg

Frankly it highlights the need for consultation with experts with specialised local knowledge who understand the language used by the other side.

Frankly, as ideal as that would be, it's a pretty tall order. The only people who understand the North Korean regime are those who live under the North Korean regime, and they are forbidden under penalty of death from even talking to anyone else by the North Korean regime. Those few who have defected typically don't want anything to do with North Korea, and I can't say I blame them.

There's more to a culture than the language.

The closest we can get is likely China or South Korea... Trump has been touting China's help with the negotiations, and I know he is in regular contact with Moon Jae-In of South Korea. But even then, as close as those cultures may have once been, living under an absolute dictatorship for more than a generation changes everything. Even their religion revolves around "Dear Leader" and his offspring.

TheRedneck

One thing to keep an eye on is North Korean propaganda. To those who were pretending that Kim was using the summit as a chance to show his people he can outwit the Americans, or that he wanted to curry favor on the world stage, we should remember that anti-American propaganda was essentially removed from Pyongyang leading up to the previous summit, and they traded it with propaganda depicting unification and peace. This is massive progress considering that it has been the exact opposite for nearly half a century.

originally posted by: Allaroundyou

originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: AngryCymraeg

Frankly it highlights the need for consultation with experts with specialised local knowledge who understand the language used by the other side.

Frankly, as ideal as that would be, it's a pretty tall order. The only people who understand the North Korean regime are those who live under the North Korean regime, and they are forbidden under penalty of death from even talking to anyone else by the North Korean regime. Those few who have defected typically don't want anything to do with North Korea, and I can't say I blame them.

There's more to a culture than the language.

The closest we can get is likely China or South Korea... Trump has been touting China's help with the negotiations, and I know he is in regular contact with Moon Jae-In of South Korea. But even then, as close as those cultures may have once been, living under an absolute dictatorship for more than a generation changes everything. Even their religion revolves around "Dear Leader" and his offspring.

TheRedneck

I do think it’s funny that Trump failed but that is only for my amusement. I had high displaced hopes for the meeting. But turns out they were displaced unfortunately.
Maybe we should go about this a different way. Let Moon and Kim talk out the negotiations amongst themselves. If Sk and Nk can come up with sensible steps to peace without the US in the face of NK maybe more can get done. The only issue with that would be that any administration wants to have a say in that region and understandably so. We have many bases and assets near that area.

Trump hasn’t failed .... he’s just not accepting NK demands for lifting sanctions, but he has gotten them to stop testing of missiles for now at least. Did Obama do that? Why no he did not...In fact I remember NK saber rattling during Obama admin. Did you forget already ? Oh yah and I guess I’m
Amused that even though the Dems snubbed Trump by holding that circus in the Senate yesterday, they failed in achieving their goal of finding a precedent for their impeachment proceedings.

originally posted by: roadgravel
I am glad Trump is trying to make a change.

But giving him credit of doing more then others is basically giving him a participation trophy. Not done is still not done.

Over 60 years of stalemate, threats and sanctions and people expect Trump, the idiot the bad orange man to solve it in 3 years. Jeez, I'm not a fan boy either but he has done more in his 3 years than every double term president preceding him. If you don't feel better about the NK situation than you did 3 years ago, that's honestly a you problem. This isn't some basic negotiation, this involves multiple countries multiple egos there is going to be some back and forth, any other thoughts are patently unrealistic.

originally posted by: ThirdEyeofHorus

originally posted by: Allaroundyou

originally posted by: TheRedneck
a reply to: AngryCymraeg

Frankly it highlights the need for consultation with experts with specialised local knowledge who understand the language used by the other side.

Frankly, as ideal as that would be, it's a pretty tall order. The only people who understand the North Korean regime are those who live under the North Korean regime, and they are forbidden under penalty of death from even talking to anyone else by the North Korean regime. Those few who have defected typically don't want anything to do with North Korea, and I can't say I blame them.

There's more to a culture than the language.

The closest we can get is likely China or South Korea... Trump has been touting China's help with the negotiations, and I know he is in regular contact with Moon Jae-In of South Korea. But even then, as close as those cultures may have once been, living under an absolute dictatorship for more than a generation changes everything. Even their religion revolves around "Dear Leader" and his offspring.

TheRedneck

I do think it’s funny that Trump failed but that is only for my amusement. I had high displaced hopes for the meeting. But turns out they were displaced unfortunately.
Maybe we should go about this a different way. Let Moon and Kim talk out the negotiations amongst themselves. If Sk and Nk can come up with sensible steps to peace without the US in the face of NK maybe more can get done. The only issue with that would be that any administration wants to have a say in that region and understandably so. We have many bases and assets near that area.

Trump hasn’t failed .... he’s just not accepting NK demands for lifting sanctions, but he has gotten them to stop testing of missiles for now at least. Did Obama do that? Why no he did not...In fact I remember NK saber rattling during Obama admin. Did you forget already ? Oh yah and I guess I’m
Amused that even though the Dems snubbed Trump by holding that circus in the Senate yesterday, they failed in achieving their goal of finding a precedent for their impeachment proceedings.

Let me correct myself here. The meeting between the two leaders didn’t get any results this time around. I find it funny anytime a leader no matter who talks a big game then get disappointed when something goes wrong. That is my sick humor.
And yes I am very aware of past administrations and the failures with NK.
Also yesterday’s hearing has nothing to do with this thread.