Trans Activism and Your Red Line

originally posted by: IkNOwSTuff
My hard line is when I’m expected to believe their fantasies.

Exactly! In what other realm of life are others commanded to not only coddle the mental illness of others, but actually convince themselves to regurgitate lies AND BELIEVE THEM or be labeled a bigot? It isn't enough to simply ignore the dude in a dress who claims he's now a she... oh no, it isn't even enough to placate the poor crazy bastard by referring to him as "she", no, you are expected to lie to yourself to the point where you actually believe that a man is a woman despite the fact that it violates multiple biological facts and laws... all because someone's brain is so fragile they believe they see something other than reality when they look in a mirror.

a reply to: Boadicea

It crosses my personal line when their rights over rule mine. When people in some places can be criminally charged for expressing opposing views on the subject- which has actually started to happen- you have trampled all over the Constitution!

Dress, act, live as you like. Heck, even raise your own kids how you want. But I get to say whatever the heck I want about it!

You really just need a Trans mega thread, I must say you put some effort into your posts, kudos. But do you not get bored of discussing the same topic with some slightly different nuances? Or sick of prothetlising? .................................

My red line is when I ask a trans friend who is MTF to get in the kitchen and get me a sandwich and a beer and shut up why I watch the football and she dose not comply. She clearly has not transitioned succesfully. And will need a higher does of hormones and z good beating. My other Red Line is when people can not just accept it is a weird and wonderful world and move on..........................[

I draw the line when we get told repeatedly in their defense that gender and sex are different ... but then they turn around and compete on the basis of sex as though their mental gender overrides biology and suddenly makes their fantasy reality and we should pretend it does too or else we're being hateful and discriminatory.

I'm sorry, but there is a reason why we have men's and women's sports. It's because men's and women's biological realities are different and just because Joe thinks he's meant to be Sue doesn't change the fact that mother nature gave "her" Joe's body, not Sue's, so competing against other women is inherently unfair.

a reply to: AgarthaSeed

41% is probably the lowest I've seen this figure. It's medically irresponsible and against the Hippocratic Oath to give children puberty blockers in light of these statistics alone.

Thank you -- Those suicide statistics may be the best reason of all for not giving the puberty blockers -- or the cross-hormone therapy. We're obviously not "fixing" anything, and most likely simply compounding issues. Estrogen and progestin can also cause severe clinical depression, including suicidal ideation and attempts.

Even if we believe that gender-affirming treatment is the best we know how to do today, the statistics show that it is not the best that can be done. Which also tells me that there is no magical "brain gender" or transitioning would be **thee** solution. There is more to this -- much more! -- and still much room for improvement. If we lock ourselves into gender affirmation as the best and only treatment, we never will find better.

Which also brings to mind the efforts to criminalize transgender "conversion therapy." Then it would be criminal to find a cure. That is unconscionable. Grown adults have the right to decide to transition, or to not transition, or to de-transition... Of course I would never accept any kind of forced conversion therapy, but neither will I accept denying anyone the option of conversion therapy.

a reply to: neo96

Never was an issue for most people.

Until the usual suspects started making which bathroom to use a GD national emergency.

I agree, but even then, I think the self-ID is the biggest problem with this. Absolutely no effort was or is being made to keep predators out. We're mocked and ridiculed for even suggesting that perverts and rapists won't exploit the invitation on a silver platter. And we're brainwashed to believe that only the most petite and effeminate of transsexuals will be coming into the ladies' room.

There's only one reason to ignore a long established known threat to vulnerable women and girls, and that's because you want those women and girls vulnerable.

The worst danger is from self-ID.

originally posted by: GeauxHomeYoureDrunk
a reply to: Boadicea

It crosses my personal line when their rights over rule mine. When people in some places can be criminally charged for expressing opposing views on the subject- which has actually started to happen- you have trampled all over the Constitution!

Dress, act, live as you like. Heck, even raise your own kids how you want. But I get to say whatever the heck I want about it!

I agree. It's like a sick version of "The Emperor's New Clothes." And I don't understand it, because it's not insulting to call a trans woman a trans woman. It just is what it is.

Let people say what they will, and lots of people will say lots of different things, and everyone will think what they will. As long as as long as no one has power over them, and they are free to walk away and live in peace however they choose, their rights are intact.

a reply to: Boadicea

Puberty hormones are hard enough to deal with without adding to the hormone soup with stuff not intended to be there.

a reply to: GeauxHomeYoureDrunk

But I get to say whatever the heck I want about it!

Yep. The First Amendment guarantees it. No worries.

originally posted by: ketsuko
I draw the line when we get told repeatedly in their defense that gender and sex are different ... but then they turn around and compete on the basis of sex as though their mental gender overrides biology... [snip]... I'm sorry, but there is a reason why we have men's and women's sports. It's because men's and women's biological realities are different...

I agree completely, and more and more are speaking out about the gross unfairness and inequities --

Go Martina!!!

-- But one of the problems I see is the schadenfreude from too many men. "You wanted to be equal, what are you complaining about now?" "You wanted to be equal, now you got it." "You wanted to be equal, suck it up." And so on and so forth.

I also think many of these men never took women's sports seriously anyway, and don't see any real harm being done.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Boadicea

Puberty hormones are hard enough to deal with without adding to the hormone soup with stuff not intended to be there.

That's the truth and cannot be emphasized enough!!! Everyone's puberty is different, and it's much much worse for some than others, but no one gets a free ride. It's hell.

Adding synthetic cross-hormones??? Yeah, that's a recipe for disaster.

a reply to: AProudLefty

I will help her out:

Off-Label Use for Gender Dysphoria

In the off-label use of Lupron for ‘pausing puberty’ in the transgender population, it should be understood that Lupron is rarely identified as “Lupron”, but is called a “puberty-blocker”, “hormone blocker”, or “a puberty-suppressing drug”. No doubt this language shift is an attempt to prevent an association with the ‘dreaded Lupron’. It should also be noted that a reproductive biologist has stated ‘puberty suppressing treatment’ “impairs the children’s reproductive capacity” and:

“[s]ome trans boys (i.e. girls) receive puberty-suppressing treatment and never produce mature ovarian follicles … the problem is accentuated with trans girls (i.e. boys) because their spermatozoa are still developing.”

Additional alarming acknowledgments within the transgender population’s off-label use of Lupron are that:

“[p]otential long-term effects can include other abnormalities of hormones, vascular complications and even potential cancer.”

According to UnitedHealthcare policy, “pubertal suppression therapy is considered unsafe in managing children and adolescents with gender identity dysphoria and is, therefore, not covered.” Other insurers do cover treatment of gender dysphoria with Lupron. One Canadian consent form for Lupron treatment of natal females with gender dysphoria identifies a number of risks, and twice repeats the warning that “there may be long-term side effects we do not yet know about”.

In 2015, the NIH awarded $5.7 million for a 5-year multi-center study which

“will be the first in the U.S. to evaluate the long-term outcomes of medical treatment for transgender youth“, seeking data on the “physiological and psychosocial impact, as well as safety, of hormone blockers.”

Lupron and Reproductive Injury



For the sake of disclosure, I am a straight, white male; I can imagine the boos and hisses now, lol. For my part, I am very much live and let live as long as any involved are freely consenting.

I've been sitting on the sidelines of this particular issue as it has had very little personal impact to me. That being said, I do agree with the self-identifying, sports competition, and force of law reasons as stated by others here in this thread.

I have personally known one transgender person, he was a female to male. He didn't even change his name substantially; originally went by Alexandria but when he came back he was Alex. Most people did not have the slightest idea that he used to be a she, the only reason I knew was that he made it a point to identify himself to me when he came back to work. He was a server for me at one location of a popular restaurant chain I worked at and when I transferred to a new location, he sought me out to get rehired; I had no problems rehiring him as he (when he was a she) was one of my better employees.

The above is a very benign example and in no way reflective of some of the problematic situations that actually have come up.

I have, however, known quite a few transvestites as one of the locations in which I worked seemed to have a higher than average GLBT community and had several gay servers who had many transvestite friends. It was kind of funny to watch one of the other managers I worked with make comments about a "hot looking" woman, whom I knew to be a man in drag, and to see his face when I made mention of that fact to him.

a reply to: jadedANDcynical

Thanks for that. I see that the drug is pretty unsafe for children, which is why some insurance won't cover it.

While sparse data exist regarding the impact of puberty suppression and gender-affirming hormones administered during adolescence, there have been promising results from the Netherlands indicating that this approach in adolescents results in improved quality of life and diminished gender dysphoria.

transhealth.ucsf.edu...

a reply to: Boadicea

In all honesty, third wave feminists haven't made themselves popular with many men. There is a lot of hostility aimed at men in culture these days. You reap what you sow in a sense.

Women target and denigrate men and put them in the corner, and now these trans-activists are coming for women, and you want men to be all supportive and defend women after we've run them down for so long? How many of them see us getting the same crap they got I wonder? How many of them might have cared if women had made an effort to be a bit less nasty to men?

I believe it's a mental illness..period. My line was drawn from the beginning but they crossed the line when they started poisoning the minds of children. Those parents making their own children believe that they were born the wrong sex should be charged with abuse. It's a case of mentally unstable parents inflicting enough trauma to guarantee their kids turn out just as crazy.

The whole issue is bull# but we need to figure something out where the children are concerned. Just my .02

Interesting:

The American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP) recently published a policy statement entitled, Ensuring comprehensive care and support for transgender and gender-diverse children and adolescents (Rafferty, 2018). It was quite a remarkable document: Although almost all clinics and professional associations in the world use what’s called the watchful waiting approach to helping GD children, the AAP statement rejected that consensus, endorsing only gender affirmation.

...

The AAP statement was also remarkable in what it left out—namely, the outcomes research on GD children. There have been eleven follow-up studies of GD children, of which AAP cited one [Wallien & Cohen Kettenis (2008)], doing so without actually mentioning the outcome data it contained. The literature on outcomes was neither reviewed, summarized, nor subjected to meta-analysis to be considered in the aggregate—It was merely disappeared. (I have presented the complete list of the outcome studies on this blog before; they appear again at the bottom of this page together with their results, for reference.) As they make clear, every follow-up study of GD children, without exception, found the same thing: By puberty, the majority of GD children ceased to want to transition. AAP is, of course, free to establish whatever policy it likes on whatever basis it likes. But any assertion that their policy is based on evidence is demonstrably false, as detailed below.

American Academy of Pediatrics policy and trans- kids: Fact-checking

So the American Academy of Pediatrics issued a policy statement with no factual backing whatsoever.

AAP is advocating for something far in excess of mainstream practice and medical consensus. In the presence of compelling evidence, that would be exactly called for. The problems in Rafferty (2018), however, do not constitute merely a misquote, a misinterpretation of an ambiguous statement, or missing a reference or two. Rather, AAP’s statement is a systematic exclusion and misrepresentation of entire literatures. Not only did AAP fail to provide extraordinary evidence, it failed to provide the evidence at all. Indeed, AAP’s recommendations are despite the existing evidence.

It might be interesting to look in to the AAP's policy statement, who authored it, and any associations they may have.

Now I gotta' look up "autogynephiles".

I really can't keep up with this stuff.

a reply to: ABNARTY

This is an autogynephile.

a reply to: AProudLefty

Was she like a great big fat person?

a reply to: AProudLefty

Nah, that's an 80's glam rock singer.

Easy to confuse the two, I know but that guy is still recognizably a guy.

a reply to: ABNARTY

Try this link to the US National Library of Medicine National Institutes of Health.