An End To The Moon Conspiracy!

Originally posted by AgentSmith
Oh.. By the way... How did they track their first probe to the Moon back in 1959 then? Luna 1?.... oh and the 14 others after it too? (before the American landings). You know... know where they were, receive data and such... control them....

Incorrect assumption. They didn't "track" the probes, they communicated with them through radio waves. Tracking an object you have no communication with is something else entirely. See the link.

Originally posted by AgentSmith
Well I can't say I 'knew' they had done it to try and 'punch a hole in the Van Allen belt' - but I don't understand how this 'proves' anything one way or another to be honest.. And I doubt it would be 100 times more intesne, I apologise if I am incorrect in thinking this - linky (decent one) please?

It proves it's deadly, or very dangerous at least. Maybe the original VAB wasn't.. as the Dr said in the quote. But.. the post-nuclear VAB is 100 times worse. I already gave you a link.. you want harder links? Alright.

www.iop.org...

en.wikipedia.org...

Originally posted by HowardRoark
So you claim. The Russians had at least one large

Incorrect again. "A small private observatory." Doesn't mention anything that would imply there is capability to track tiny objects like rockets, on their way to the moon.

Originally posted by HowardRoark
October 4, 1959 - Luna 3 translunar satellite is launched, orbiting the moon and photographing 70 percent of the far side of the moon. Blah blah blah..

Thanks for the long history lesson but it has no relevance to our topic.

Originally posted by SteveR
Fact 1: Yuri G. said they were very bright and prominent.
Source: "A delicate blue halo surrounds the Earth, merging with the blackness of space in which the stars are bright and clear cut."
As quoted from here.

Like I said, some of the astronauts could see the stars while on the Moon. Say if they were standing in the shadow of the LM or something to block the sun, then they could see them with there own eyes. But we're talking about film. Cameras and film work differently then our eyes do.

I have no doubt Yuri could see stars. I have no doubt the Apollo astronuats could see them. But when it comes to cameras, it's not going to be able to expose star light onto the film unless it gets enough exposure time.

Here's where the contradiction comes in...

Originally posted by jra
I have no doubt Yuri could see stars. I have no doubt the Apollo astronuats could see them.

Collins, Armstrong, Aldrin.. all said they didn't see any stars whatsoever.

Originally posted by jra
But when it comes to cameras, it's not going to be able to expose star light onto the film unless it gets enough exposure time.

The "real" moon pics show stars. The "fake" studio pics (mainstream) do not.

Originally posted by SteveR

Originally posted by AgentSmith
Oh.. By the way... How did they track their first probe to the Moon back in 1959 then? Luna 1?.... oh and the 14 others after it too? (before the American landings). You know... know where they were, receive data and such... control them....

Incorrect assumption.

They didn't "track" the probes, they communicated with them through radio waves. Tracking an object you have no communication with is something else entirely. See the link.

The U.S. Apollo missions were in constant communication with Earth. Tracking the location of an object in space when that object is sending out a constant stream of radio waves is not that difficult to do.

(What link?)

Originally posted by SteveR
The "real" moon pics show stars. The "fake" studio pics (mainstream) do not.

Wrong again. You have been watching too many Star Trek reruns.

Hollywood always includes the stars, and when space ships blow up, you can "hear" the explosion.

That doesn't mean that it works like that.

How about this article in russian:

(Translation using BabeFish - original article in russian on link)

The article of a participant in the events of the 30- summer remoteness Of e.P.Molotova proposed to the readers shedding light on the unknown pages of "lunar race" and finally is shut an absurd question "were Americans on the Moon?" Have passed more than 30 years from that time, as the most expensive race between the Soviet Union and the United States of America for the superiority in the debarkation of man on the Moon was expanded. Who won this race of prestige - it is known. Many events occurred in this time... Very process of competition was repeatedly described both by American and Russian side. To us is interesting to describe about one of its earlier than not illuminated episodes. The programs of the preparation of the debarkation of man to the Moon in THE USSR (circling UR-SHCH00 - the l-th, landing the n-th - L -3) and in THE USA ("Apollo") conducted in parallel, and superiority had influential political value. Soviet management paid considerable attention to the state of the matters concerning the implementation of lunar program both in the Soviet Union and in America. For the objective control of the execution of American program the secretary of the CC CPSU D.F.Ustinov, that treated the defense industry of the country, at the end of 1967 gave commission to the chief designer OF RNII - SCIENTIFIC RESEARCH INSTITUTE OF JET PROPULSION KP (at that time NII-885) M.S.Ryazanskomu to develop the special control radio-technical complex, with the aid of which it would be possible to assume signals from the American spacecraft of the program of "Apollo", which accomplished flight around the moon and landing on its surface. M.S.Ryazanskiy at that time answered for the creation of onboard and ground-based radio-technical means of control by the spacecraft of Soviet lunar program. Under his management for the control of the Soviet manned and automatic spacecraft for investigating the Moon was created the ground-based complex of control, which included two Mission Control Center, six ground-based and three ship control posts, equipped with the appropriate tracking stations and located on the territory of the Soviet Union and at the fixed points of world ocean. However, these means could not be used for the reception of information from the "Apollo" spacecraft, since they worked in other frequency range with the signals, which have another structure. Therefore it was necessary to create the special control complex, capable of ensuring the reception of data from the "Apollos". It was intended to assume from the American spacecraft not only telephone (vocal) and telemetric, but also television information. It was decided to include the antenna TNA -400 with a diameter of the mirror of 32 m, which was placed in the Crimea, near g.Simferopolya (Fig. 1), in control complex. It more lately was used as the receiving antenna of radio-technical complex "Saturn-mS", that ensured control of Soviet automatic automatic spacecraft for investigating the Moon: by "moon rovers", by apparatuses for the delivery of lunar soil to the earth, and also by lunar satellites. Ris.y. Antenna TNA -400 For the work in the composition of control complex the antenna TNA -400 was equipped with the low-noise receiving device, which worked in the range 13 cm (range S, in which they worked the transmitters of the lunar modules of the program of "Apollo"). Furthermore, into the composition of complex they entered: the demodulator of the transferred at the carrier frequency group signal and signals, transferred on the sub-carrier frequencies, equipment for the isolation of vocal, telemetric and television information, and also equipment for imaging and control of complex (Fig. 2). The control complex, created in short periods OF RNII - SCIENTIFIC RESEARCH INSTITUTE OF JET PROPULSION KP in the cooperation with several industrial enterprises, was ready for reception of signals from the spacecraft of the program of "Apollo" during November 1968. Fig. 2. block diagram of the control complex In order to track ships with their orbital flight around the Moon and with the landing on its surface, it was necessary to have the ballistic data of these orbits for calculating the aim designations to antenna. However, such information was not published by Americans. Therefore data from the orbits of flight were calculated by ballistics on the basis of the time of launch and arrival to the Moon of the "Apollo" spacecraft, which reported on the American radio. According to these data the aim designations for guiding the antennas, which were refined on by control room by the complex adopted to signals from the lunar ships, were calculated. This approach to the calculation of aim designations made it possible to sufficiently reliably pick up signals from the "Apollos". The task of the search for signals was facilitated by the fact that the antenna radiation pattern covered practically half of the disk of the Moon. Tracking was conducted after the spacecraft of expeditions "Apollo-8", "Apollo-10", "Apollo-11" and "Apollo-12" from December 1968 through November 1969. From all these ships the telephone negotiations of astronauts with the Earth and telemetry data about the state of onboard systems started with a good quality. TV the signal adopted had low quality because of the insufficient level of the energy potential of radio link on the base of 32- meter antenna. It should be noted that the American network of tracking and control ensured practically twenty-four hour connection with the "Apollo" spacecraft, while Soviet control complex could pick up signals only in that part of its visibility range, which in the time coincided with the visibility range of Madrid tracking station. Lunar expedition under the management Of f.Bormana aboard the spacecraft "Apollo-8" during December 1968 accomplished the first manned space flight to the Moon, made 10 turns around it and, after returning to the earth with the planet escape velocity, it produced soft landing in the ocean. This flight served as base for the stoppage of works in the first stage of Soviet program entire l-th, although technology and crews to the manned flight around the moon by that time were finished. Fig. 3. spectra of the signals, accepted from the "Apollo" spacecraft The flight of crew "Apollo-11" with the outcrop of the Moon on 20 July, 1969, Of n.Armstronga and E.Oldrina finally stopped competition in the debarkation of man to the Moon. Fig. 3 presents the photographs of the spectra of signals, accepted by control station from the "Apollo" spacecraft, made from the screen of television monitoring system. Fig. 4 shows the image of the rise of the Earth above the lunar horizon, accepted along the television channel from one of the "Apollo" spacecraft. Fig. 4. image of the Earth, accepted along the television channel from one of the "Apollos" As is known, after this the Soviet Union directed its efforts to the study of the Moon by automatic automatic spacecraft, as a result of which the impressive results were obtained. Let us note in conclusion that the information about creation and functioning of Soviet special control radio-technical complex earlier was not published.

www.novosti-kosmonavtiki.ru...

And this:

Lunar and interplanetary programs brought new tracking requirements. IP-14 in Shchelkovo was first upgraded for the lunar program with the Kama-E distance measuring system. IP-41E (Simeyz) and IP-42E (Moscow) later received the same upgrade. NIP-16 at Yevpatoriya was equipped to handle interplanetary probes. The Pluton system sent commands to the probe, while the Saturn system received data. Saturn complexes were built at NIP-3, 4, 14, and 15. This consisted of a 16 m antennae with a 100 million km range. The RS-10-2M antenna was used, plus at NIP-10 the TNA-400. The Pluton Command-Tracking System was installed only at NIP-16.

www.astronautix.com...

[edit on 2-11-2005 by AgentSmith]

Good find, and fair enough.

May I bring this up again?

www.ufos-aliens.co.uk...

Some of those moon photos don't have any strange shadows and they do have stars..

Originally posted by SteveR
Incorrect assumption.

They didn't "track" the probes, they communicated with them through radio waves. Tracking an object you have no communication with is something else entirely. See the link.

Either way, they should be able to tell where the radio signal is coming from. Thus they should have been able to tell if the Apollo transmissions were coming from the moon or not.

Originally posted by SteveR
Here's where the contradiction comes in...

Originally posted by jra
I have no doubt Yuri could see stars. I have no doubt the Apollo astronuats could see them.

Collins, Armstrong, Aldrin.. all said they didn't see any stars whatsoever.

Well there was a total of 12 astronauts that landed on the moon. I've read some claiming they could make out the stars while some couldn't. It's not a contradiction. They all went at differnt times to different areas.

Originally posted by jra
But when it comes to cameras, it's not going to be able to expose star light onto the film unless it gets enough exposure time.

The "real" moon pics show stars. The "fake" studio pics (mainstream) do not.

That site you liked to about the airbrushing is not a credible website.

Originally posted by SteveR
Good find, and fair enough.

May I bring this up again?

www.ufos-aliens.co.uk...

Some of those moon photos don't have any strange shadows and they do have stars..

I'm looking and it seems interesting, apart from it isn't backed up. He hasn't given any references of where those transcripts are supposed to be (the Lunar journal is huge)..

I'm checking out the pictures on this excellent site linked to from the NASA site with all the photos:

www.lpi.usra.edu...

But so far I can't see anything good in the ones I've checked from his references:






(needs to be looked at in context with others in series I think - www.lpi.usra.edu...)



Emmm.. not really seeing anything that interesting in those pictures he referenced.... I know there are a few more but with this disappointing turnout, who wants to bother? Which makes me even more dubious about his transcripts.


Wow these pictures are amazing!

www.lpi.usra.edu...

And check these out!

www.lpi.usra.edu...

And in this sequence from Apollo 11, it really looks like the Earth is shrinking away!








(I especially like the one above because the clearly defined continent of Africa just shows what can be accomplished with a cardboard cutout in the window!)




Anyway I think we get the picture, check the site out there are thousands of images.

If you can find if those transcripts are genuine then that would be great - I'm all open for some sort of alien cover ups! I asked Dr Aldrin about UFOs but he didn't have a great deal to say....

[edit on 2-11-2005 by AgentSmith]

Originally posted by SteveR
May I bring this up again?

www.ufos-aliens.co.uk...

Some of those moon photos don't have any strange shadows and they do have stars..

Wow... this website is a great example of misinformation. I've only really looked at the first photo (this one
here )

Firstly, that big fuzzy white thing on the top of the photo is a sunstrike. They could not see it with there own eyes, it's just something that usually happens to the film at the beginning and end of the magazine. There are lots of photos with things like that on them.

Secondly, this is their biggest error. That photo is from Apollo 12, not 11, so that is not Armstrong in the photo and it was not taken by Aldrin. So either they're purposely lying or they are just too incompetent to get it right or both. Here is a high quality version of the photo as well. www.hq.nasa.gov...

[edit on 2-11-2005 by jra]

Originally posted by AgentSmith

The Domes?

They do look natural-ish... but then again, why would there be domes like that on the moon? They're like a crater that's inversed (upwards slope instead of downwards..)

I think the most important thing to do, (if the guy is going to be debunked), is to verify those apollo transmissions... He did mention that hundreds of private radio operators tuned into the frequency, and heard Armstrong's statements, such as "I say there are other spaceships." But ofcourse on TV it was censored.

[edit on 2/11/05 by SteveR]

Originally posted by SteveR
The Domes?

They do look natural-ish... but then again, why would there be domes like that on the moon? They're like a crater that's inversed (upwards slope instead of downwards..)

Erm... What domes would you be talking about exactly? I know if you stare at the craters long enough or think the right way they can look inverted... But they're definitely indentations in the surface of the Moon.

Originally posted by cmdrkeenkid
What domes would you be talking about exactly? I know if you stare at the craters long enough or think the right way they can look inverted...

They look like domes to me. And I've seen thousands of craters on other moon pics. I guess I'm wrong.. perhaps it's just the light levels and angle. Optical illusion maybe. But do you think Armstrong was tricked by that too? That is, if his "domes on the moon" transmission is genuine.

Steve

Originally posted by johnlear
Neil Armstrong in his speech at the 25th anniversary of Apollo 11 when
he told the science class what wonders they would discover when the layers of secrecy were removed.

[edit on 2/11/05 by SteveR]

I've spun the image round 180 deg to make it easier but if you look:



The ridge is lit up and not in shadow, so the lightsource would be coming from the right (in the totated pic), the shadows in the craters match this, if they were domes then the shadow would be on the left and the right 'side' would be lit up.

It would be interesting if any of those transcripts could be confirmed somehow or even if some of them could be found in the official versions, but he has unhelpfully not given any references, which makes it very hard to do.

If you have the patience all the lunar journals are here:

www.hq.nasa.gov...

[edit on 3-11-2005 by AgentSmith]

Originally posted by SteveR
Here's where the contradiction comes in...

Originally posted by jra
I have no doubt Yuri could see stars. I have no doubt the Apollo astronuats could see them.

Collins, Armstrong, Aldrin.. all said they didn't see any stars whatsoever.

You forget how the astronauts orintate their space craft for thruster burns, they used fixed obects in space, like stars. and then the horizen to landmarks on earth or the moon. This was mainly a backup system to Radio navigation. Apollo 13 because of thier unreliable navigation computer, and debris used the earth, moon, and the sun, instead of a far off star

The optical navigation subsystem is composed of a space sextant and a scanning telescope. Sightings on celestial bodies and landmarks on the moon and earth are used by the computer subsystem to determine the spacecraft's position and velocity and to align the inertial reference within the IMU.

Originally posted by Halfofone
Well if you've seen the entire video you will notice that the blue light in the windows is there all the time. You are probably thinking EXACTICALY!!! because the were in low earth orbit the entire time....

However, if you know anything about orbiting earth, you would know that you are orbiting at about 45 min on the day side and 45 min on the night side. Therefore sometimes you would see black and sometimes earth, but this is not the case.

Halfo -- The point is, that even if there was not 45 minutes of blue and 45 minutes of black (which how would you know that?) there just shouldn't be ANY bllue if they are in deep space and not orbiting at all. And to try to explain the blue sky away by saying it's just light reflecting, you can believe that but I don't.

Agent -- If the astroNOTs are going to the moon, looking around and observing the heavens is not going on a vacation!! They are going as scientific observers to a place nobody has ever BEEN. So I think that's quite a lame excuse you've come up with, one of the lamest so far, to explain why none of them saw any stars. BECAUSE THEY WEREN'T ON VACATION!! Ha! Really good.



That's almost as good as the reason that NASA can't send anybody to the moon TODAY. Why? Because they LOST THE APOLLO PLANS!


Oh, and sorry to butt in on your discussionon the aliens and the astroNOTs. I don't know if any of them truly personally believe in aliens (unless they've been subjected to mind control programming by NASA and the secret military, like I think Buzz may have been) -- but I think they'd all like everybody else to believe in them. NASA obviously acts like they believe in aliens and would like the rest of us to believe in them. NOT.

Hmmm. I wonder why our government picked the congressional medal of honor to be the same symbol as that the witches use? (five pointed star in a circle). Oh, well. Probably just a coincidence, like the Illuminati's eye of horus and the pyramid is just a coincidence on the dollar bill.








[edit on 3-11-2005 by resistance]

Howard Roark -- That quote of mine you have posted for your signature that I made was about the dumbest post I've made here. I do believe NASA is going to fake an alien invasion from Mars (easier than trying to go there themselves or to go to the moon). But I was a little too eager in my websurfing when I came up with that little gem about Disney and NASA making a $150 million movie that will get people ready for a fake Mars invasion. The promotion for this movie was four years old. The movie has come and gone. It cost only $75 million and it was a big flop. So here I am admitting that I was wrong on that one. Am I allowed to make human mistakes? Will I be roasted alive for this one?

However, I do believe that was NASA's intent -- to soften people up for an alien invasion they are going to stage. People are pretty soft already actually, and I'd say at this point most people will fall for it without anymore propaganda efforts on the part of the Illuminati/NASA.

[edit on 3-11-2005 by resistance]

Originally posted by resistance
The movie has come and gone. It cost only $75 million and it was a big flop. So here I am admitting that I was wrong on that one.

Do you have a title for that movie, maybe?

Originally posted by cmdrkeenkid

Originally posted by resistance
The movie has come and gone. It cost only $75 million and it was a big flop. So here I am admitting that I was wrong on that one.

Do you have a title for that movie, maybe?

Mission to Mars.

www.enterprisemission.com...