Brexit, Today is the Vote!

a reply to: Freeborn

As a Canadian, I can tell you, people in North America are aghast and not laughing, but rather feeling your pain. Most people over here, Trump excepted, are Remainers.

a reply to: Freeborn

I think they will vote down a no deal Brexit tomorrow.

And Mays not got a fecking clue nor plan that anyone wants to even consider.

I think they are going to ask for an extension with a view to another referendum.

a reply to: andy06shake

A few days ago I would have said, no way that they go to the EU and say give us a extension so we can go to the people for a second referendum.

Now though, I gotta say, its looking like this might end up being the path we go down eventually.

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

Exactly right. The big honchos in the EU have been sounding the warning of the danger of an accidental crash out for some time, for all these reasons.

originally posted by: Freeborn
If my 8 year old Grandson was as discourteous as some of those MP's I'd slap him round the lug.

Like so many I know, including a surprising number of ex-Remainers, I just want it over and done with and come out now with a No Deal and then sit down and talk after March 29th.

But I suspect we're going to get an extension and then either a watered down Brexit that gives us the worst of both worlds or an undemocratic second referendum.

No-one has come out of this farce with any credibility at all.

We must be the laughing stock of the world.....I know if this was going on in any other major country I'd be ripping the piss out of them.

May is either a complete idiot, or (as i now suspect) is incredibly smart and as a remainer from the off has engineered this debacle as a way of overturning the People's Vote to leave the EU.

Her meetings with the EU have likely been about strategy to bypass the will of the people.

originally posted by: ipsedixit
a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

Exactly right. The big honchos in the EU have been sounding the warning of the danger of an accidental crash out for some time, for all these reasons.

Thats why the vote tomorrow is so important, if parliament were to not have tabled this vote then would would have just day-dreamed out of the EU and woken up with disaster.

What I find so interesting is that she is giving a free vote and has basically said that even she will vote against a no-deal. That drastically changes the dynamics of everything, no-deal has kind of be the carrot on the stick to keep the EU at the table. There is a strong argument that taking it off the table actually weakens the UK negotiating position, but its gone on for so long that they have been forced into this eleventh hour vote to take it off the table, calling the EU's bluff and now have had to take no-deal off the table.

Take it off the table, makes a second referendum much more likely.

a reply to: andy06shake

The thing is, we know there is little support for No Deal in Westminster - there's relatively little support for Brexit if the truth is told - but they may just be surprised at the strength and amount of support for No Deal there is in the general public.

The public have been under-estimated before and they may indeed be again.

Yet more evidence, if more was needed, of just how out of touch and unfit for purpose our politicians are.

a reply to: UKTruth

Personally, I think she has been vectoring toward a "no deal" Brexit. Her conduct throughout has been almost incomprehensible. i can only think she is responding to the City of London, who I think are really behind Brexit and want to use it to get out from under European oversight. I think that during this process she has transitioned from being a more or less legitimate politician into being a straight tool of the financial elite.

I think Brexit is fake populism. If left unchallenged, she would have had a deal with no regulatory guarantees to workers. I think the "City" did the math and decided that regulatory compatibility with the EU was affordable and wouldn't cut into the opportunities envisioned by the bankers operating outside European supervision.

originally posted by: Freeborn
a reply to: andy06shake

The thing is, we know there is little support for No Deal in Westminster - there's relatively little support for Brexit if the truth is told - but they may just be surprised at the strength and amount of support for No Deal there is in the general public.

The public have been under-estimated before and they may indeed be again.

Yet more evidence, if more was needed, of just how out of touch and unfit for purpose our politicians are.

Imagine this scenario, which may well happen:
The people vote to leave the EU.
The govt negotiate for 2 years.
The Govt go back to the people and say, the EU wouldn't let us, can you vote again please.

Crazy. Even crazier that there are actually British people who are so traitorous that they would delight in overturning the People's Vote.

a reply to: Freeborn

I think if we are being brutally honest, there is very little support for no deal with just about everyone involved in this, the public, parliament, government, the EU...nobody really wants a no deal, it has no support.

Even the ERG don't really seem all that keen on no-deal.

a reply to: Freeborn

End of the day they dont give a crap what the people want.

Deal or No Deal.

What a lot of mince really

Someone should call Noel Edmonds and ask him what to do.

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

From the link

But voting for an extension does not solve the problems the government faces.
The EU will want to know if the UK wants to revoke article 50 or if it wants a referendum.
Those are choices the House must now face

A 3 month "stay of execution" won't cut the mustard with EU
May must come up with something credible about happens at the end of the extension

Some people are saying that a 2nd referendum would take 6 months to a year to set up
but even then, what would that vote be on ?
May's crap-deal has been slaughtered, a no-deal will be voted down

Stay in EU or .... ?

I've got it !
Stay
or
"Write your own answer, and we'll take the consensus of everyones opinion"

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

I do think we are headed for a second referendum. The only way to get a "no deal" result would be by "accidental" default. It would never be voted for in parliament.

a reply to: UKTruth

Long before then, some half-wit will start a war with the likes of Iran or manufacture some other mad bastard crisis and all this window dressing for the masses, and that's all it really is, will be long forgotten.

originally posted by: ipsedixit
a reply to: UKTruth

Personally, I think she has been vectoring toward a "no deal" Brexit. Her conduct throughout has been almost incomprehensible. i can only think she is responding to the City of London, who I think are really behind Brexit and want to use it to get out from under European oversight. I think that during this process she has transitioned from being a more or less legitimate politician into being a straight tool of the financial elite.

I think Brexit is fake populism. If left unchallenged, she would have had a deal with no regulatory guarantees to workers. I think the "City" did the math and decided that regulatory compatibility with the EU was affordable and wouldn't cut into the opportunities envisioned by the bankers operating outside European supervision.

You think the People's Vote was fake?
Whatever May is doing, her job was to take us out of the EU. She is failing and so are the other nitwits in parliament who are rejecting the will of their constituents.

Chris Hanretty, a politics lecturer at the University of East Anglia, used statistic analysis to work out how the results for local authorities transfer onto constituencies. He revealed 401 out of 632 MPs represent constituencies which voted for Brexit in the referendum. The number equates to 63 per cent of constituencies, adding to the growing pressure on politicians not to defy the will of the electorate when Article 50 is put to a vote in the House of Commons.

a reply to: Cassi3l

3 month extension for the EU is difficult what do you do about the EU elections.

I wouldn't be surprised if the EU say, we can give you a brief extension but you guys then need to make a decision about a second referendum or no-deal, if you vote for the second referendum we will give you time to make that possible.

originally posted by: UKTruth

You think the People's Vote was fake?

No, I think the whole campaign was manipulative and dishonest. I think there were a few dupers and a lot of duped voters. I'm not talking about the voting itself.

I think it was a kind of electoral ambush. I think the Brexit side was well prepared for the campaign and the Remain side were taken by surprise and didn't really know what they were up against (Russian strategists, Cambridge Analytica, lies about the NHS, vermin like Nigel Farage).

originally posted by: ipsedixit

originally posted by: UKTruth

You think the People's Vote was fake?

No, I think the whole campaign was manipulative and dishonest. I think there were a few dupers and a lot of duped voters. I'm not talking about the voting itself.

There was as much BS on the remain side.
The argument that people didn't really want to vote to leave but were duped into it is arrogant.

a reply to: OtherSideOfTheCoin

Taking No Deal off the table is a massive cave-in to the EU and hands them even more negotiating power.
I can't believe how inept our representatives have been in these negotiations, the EU really must be in hysterics laughing at us.

I've got to say I've been giving this Backstop problem a bit of thought recently and I never thought I'd say this but I'm in 100% agreement with the Ulster Unionists, we can not accept any part of the UK being treated any different from the rest of the UK.

May was certainly right when she said voting for an extension will not make the problems go away, its just burying our head in the sand.
Has all the dithering and incompetence been by design....I'd like to think not, but there's always that nagging suspicion....

As an aside; how much of an arse is John Bercow and doesn't he look if he's over-indulged in the old do-dah sometimes?

Oh, and yet again Jeremy Corbyn proves how unfit for public office he is....how could anyone think a General Election at this moment in time would be in the country's best interests?

originally posted by: andy06shake
a reply to: UKTruth

Long before then, some half-wit will start a war with the likes of Iran or manufacture some other mad bastard crisis and all this window dressing for the masses, and that's all it really is, will be long forgotten.

No idea what you are talking about. Seems irrelevant to the discussion.