#TheBestMenCanBe #Gillette

originally posted by: ketsuko

originally posted by: InTheLight

originally posted by: toms54
a reply to: Boadicea

You are overthinking this. It's not about BLM or whether black crime exists.

It's that Gillette is insulting it's customers with an offensive negative stereotype and then expects then to buy their product as a result.

Why are you flooding with these dense comments?

No she isn't, Boadicea makes perfect sense. The ad does not stereotype all men, it portrays some men's toxic behaviour and other non-toxic men stepping in to stop bullying and other negative behaviour. Gillette is really only calling out those men who think that type of behaviour is acceptable.

But it very much shows men negatively. Where do men go to see themselves portrayed positively? Again, if it is a problem that children of color never see themselves portrayed in media positively, then isn't it also a problem that little boys also never see themselves portrayed as good things in media?

The mistake being made is that "men rule the culture" because they are patriarchal oppressors so, of course, they see themselves in power everywhere and that makes them feel good, but the message is not there quite like you think it is. If it was, then women would not be the majority on college campuses and the majority of degree earners, etc.

I see the ad differently than you. What stands out to me are the men stepping in and stopping bullying and bad behaviour, doing the right thing.

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Boadicea

Find me an example in mass media of a "good" man. Look at sitcoms - the man is almost always the idiot or a womanizer. Action movie heroes are now deemed "toxic".

Oh dear lord. Mainstream news sucks. TV sucks. Movies suck. Yes, we all know.

So why the hell aren't you providing these examples? Why aren't you showing the whole world those good examples?

And, again, why aren't men themselves standing up and being the example, rather than whining and crying that someone said something mean?

By the way, "toxic" by whose standards? Toxic is a relative matter. Peanuts can be terribly toxic in very small doses to someone who is allergic, but that same dose is nowhere near toxic to me. So maybe this idea of toxic is being defined by feminists who are allergic to masculinity?

By all means, define toxic. Demand that Gillette define toxic. What does "toxic" mean to you? What do you think "toxic" means to Gillette? Where would you draw distinctions? And why?

originally posted by: Boadicea

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Boadicea

Find me an example in mass media of a "good" man. Look at sitcoms - the man is almost always the idiot or a womanizer. Action movie heroes are now deemed "toxic".

...

And, again, why aren't men themselves standing up and being the example, rather than whining and crying that someone said something mean?

...

You want a truthful answer, or one that makes you feel right? This is a valid question to ask. Since, anyone that stands up and speaks out as you are implying is immediately labels a misogynist, toxic, or outright harassing of women. Yes, I know this as fact as I have experienced it first hand. When I spoke up about it I was shouted down and demeaned as supporting bullying and dismissing it. Only because I tried to put some reality into the conversation that this is not as widespread now as it was in the past, and that suppressing a boy's natural manhood will cause them psychological harm and personal confusion at a young age. That I have seen manifest itself into anger and outward violence during the puberty stage when there was no strong male role model to guide them through that difficult time.

But then, I fully expect you to take the same tack and begin to accuse me of trying to diminish bullying in that statement.

originally posted by: Krakatoa

originally posted by: Boadicea

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Boadicea

Find me an example in mass media of a "good" man. Look at sitcoms - the man is almost always the idiot or a womanizer. Action movie heroes are now deemed "toxic".

...

And, again, why aren't men themselves standing up and being the example, rather than whining and crying that someone said something mean?

...

You want a truthful answer, or one that makes you feel right? This is a valid question to ask. Since, anyone that stands up and speaks out as you are implying is immediately labels a misogynist, toxic, or outright harassing of women. Yes, I know this as fact as I have experienced it first hand. When I spoke up about it I was shouted down and demeaned as supporting bullying and dismissing it. Only because I tried to put some reality into the conversation that this is not as widespread now as it was in the past, and that suppressing a boy's natural manhood will cause them psychological harm and personal confusion at a young age. That I have seen manifest itself into anger and outward violence during the puberty stage when there was no strong male role model to guide them through that difficult time.

But then, I fully expect you to take the same tack and begin to accuse me of trying to diminish bullying in that statement.

Is it suppressing a boy's natural manhood to teach him not to bully others?

I think I can clarify to some of the offended posters what the commercial is trying to get across.

Don't be an apathetic wuss-ass, grow a pair and lead by example.

How hard is that to suss out? And to be fair, yes, women as a whole today need to be told to calm their tits, not everything is out to get them. In the same sense, calm YOUR moobs, not everything is out to get you. Just be decent to others and others will reciprocate.

This is a POV so simple that kids understand it. Dare I say kids are becoming wiser than their sperm & egg donors lately.

originally posted by: InTheLight

originally posted by: Krakatoa

originally posted by: Boadicea

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Boadicea

Find me an example in mass media of a "good" man. Look at sitcoms - the man is almost always the idiot or a womanizer. Action movie heroes are now deemed "toxic".

...

And, again, why aren't men themselves standing up and being the example, rather than whining and crying that someone said something mean?

...

You want a truthful answer, or one that makes you feel right? This is a valid question to ask. Since, anyone that stands up and speaks out as you are implying is immediately labels a misogynist, toxic, or outright harassing of women. Yes, I know this as fact as I have experienced it first hand. When I spoke up about it I was shouted down and demeaned as supporting bullying and dismissing it. Only because I tried to put some reality into the conversation that this is not as widespread now as it was in the past, and that suppressing a boy's natural manhood will cause them psychological harm and personal confusion at a young age. That I have seen manifest itself into anger and outward violence during the puberty stage when there was no strong male role model to guide them through that difficult time.

But then, I fully expect you to take the same tack and begin to accuse me of trying to diminish bullying in that statement.

Is it suppressing a boy's natural manhood to teach him not to bully others?

And there it is.....thanks for proving my point. You immediately go to accusing me of defending bullying.

That is the problem...that is NOT what I was saying at all. You merely interpreted it with the feminist goggles you have been trained to use all these years.

Being a man, a true man, does not include bullying. However, it also does not include being weak and unwilling to defend oneself or others. Bullying is a power thing, and early form of rape if you will. My statement in no way support that position. The fact that you took it that way proves that you have a myopic viewpoint of men and what it means to be one.

Ask yourself where you got that idea. Truly ask yourself. I am willing to bet you will not.

originally posted by: Boadicea
And, again, why aren't men themselves standing up and being the example, rather than whining and crying that someone said something mean?

There are countless men who do stand up and are examples, but it seems nobody ever pays attention to them. It's like any retail/restaurant environment, it's rare that people actually speak up when they have a good experience, but boy oh boy will they shout at the top of their lungs if they have a bad experience.

There are countless men who defend women on a constant basis, yet nobody ever seems to notice nowadays because we have to make men suffer for how women were treated before, similar that white people need to suffer thanks to black history in america. If you want proof then start a thread talking about men hitting women. Sure, there are men who are abusive a-holes that give many of us a bad name, but the vast majority of men believe that no matter what you should never hit a woman. Doesn't matter what that woman is doing, either. That woman could be hitting you, clawing you, kicking you, biting you, even hold a knife up to your neck and if you do one single physical thing to that woman in self defense, then you are a bastard and those men will want to put you in the hospital.

I know this, and many women know this, and they do take some pretty big advantage of it. Most men are so adamant in this belief that even if the woman is lying about what's happened, they'll still beat the crap out of the guy. I've seen it happen, deserved and undeserved.

Yet, none of this seems to matter, all because a portion of the gender does terrible things. I've seen women do some pretty terrible things in my life, yet I know not all women are this way, yet if you read what's being thrown around nowadays we're led to believe that all men are capable of rape and abuse. This commercial tries to tell everyone that men are compliant with abuse and either enjoy it, or choose to ignore it. That's so not the case, many of them do actually work on stopping it. They're just not being paid attention to, just like many people never write positive reviews when they have a good experience at a retail/restaurant environment.

a reply to: Boadicea


This is when the male w/a micropenis will accuse P&G™ of "triggering" and then to bolster their argument will add "Snowflake" You know the EXACT same thing they accuse those who wave the "D" Flag...

Did EVERYONE forget the #1 Rule of Publicity? It looks like the ad worked. Keep the horseSNIP going and Y'all will Really get TRIGGERED when the ad wins a Clio Award for Best Commercial.

Didn't Y'all learn Your lesson when Caitlyn (nee: Bruce) Jenner won Female of the Year?

Now go and get in Your BIG RED TRUCK and drive off into the sunset (That would be the Westerly direction...)

Who do You want Your daughter to marry?

originally posted by: Krakatoa

originally posted by: InTheLight

originally posted by: Krakatoa

originally posted by: Boadicea

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Boadicea

Find me an example in mass media of a "good" man. Look at sitcoms - the man is almost always the idiot or a womanizer. Action movie heroes are now deemed "toxic".

...

And, again, why aren't men themselves standing up and being the example, rather than whining and crying that someone said something mean?

...

You want a truthful answer, or one that makes you feel right? This is a valid question to ask. Since, anyone that stands up and speaks out as you are implying is immediately labels a misogynist, toxic, or outright harassing of women. Yes, I know this as fact as I have experienced it first hand. When I spoke up about it I was shouted down and demeaned as supporting bullying and dismissing it. Only because I tried to put some reality into the conversation that this is not as widespread now as it was in the past, and that suppressing a boy's natural manhood will cause them psychological harm and personal confusion at a young age. That I have seen manifest itself into anger and outward violence during the puberty stage when there was no strong male role model to guide them through that difficult time.

But then, I fully expect you to take the same tack and begin to accuse me of trying to diminish bullying in that statement.

Is it suppressing a boy's natural manhood to teach him not to bully others?

And there it is.....thanks for proving my point. You immediately go to accusing me of defending bullying.

That is the problem...that is NOT what I was saying at all. You merely interpreted it with the feminist goggles you have been trained to use all these years.

Being a man, a true man, does not include bullying. However, it also does not include being weak and unwilling to defend oneself or others. Bullying is a power thing, and early form of rape if you will. My statement in no way support that position. The fact that you took it that way proves that you have a myopic viewpoint of men and what it means to be one.

Ask yourself where you got that idea. Truly ask yourself. I am willing to bet you will not.

I did not interpreting anything, I was asking you a question because of your previous comment and you turned it around to suit your position, as you usually do. All you had to do was clarify your comments and not make assumptions about me.

May I also suggest an "Universal Remote" ? They're great..

I

a reply to: Krakatoa

You want a truthful answer, or one that makes you feel right? This is a valid question to ask. Since, anyone that stands up and speaks out as you are implying is immediately labels a misogynist, toxic, or outright harassing of women.

Really? Saying that some -- but not most and not all -- men are abusers and bullies will get me labeled as misogynistic, toxic or outright harassing of women? I'll believe it when I see it.

Yes, I know this as fact as I have experienced it first hand. When I spoke up about it I was shouted down and demeaned as supporting bullying and dismissing it.

You will have to be more specific because I don't believe it. You called you misogynistic, toxic and an outright harasser of women for saying that not all men are bullies?

Only because I tried to put some reality into the conversation that this is not as widespread now as it was in the past...

I'll accept that on its face for this discussion, although I'm not sure its entirely true.

...and that suppressing a boy's natural manhood will cause them psychological harm and personal confusion at a young age. That I have seen manifest itself into anger and outward violence during the puberty stage when there was no strong male role model to guide them through that difficult time.

Unless you're saying that bullying and sexually harassing women/girls is part of a boy's/man's "natural manhood" -- to which I will vehemently disagree -- then you need to be more specific. What part of "natural manhood" is being denied?

But then, I fully expect you to take the same tack and begin to accuse me of trying to diminish bullying in that statement.

And you were wrong. I have asked direct and relevant questions, made very clear distinctions, pointed out where I thought Gillette could have and should have done better, offered suggestions for future similar videos, and otherwise been quite respectful and open to other perspectives.

But virtually every response has whined about the commercial as if directed to them personally, failed to address the very clear distinctions I've made, thrown women and girls under the same bus that they're bitching about being thrown under, no acknowledgement of the problem being addressed -- much less any productive and practical suggestions for improvement, and I have been insulted and demeaned repeatedly... all because I didn't jump into the pity party for the poor poor men.

You may not be defending bad behavior by men. But you sure as hell won't acknowledge it or condemn it. Okay. The end result is the same. And hence why Gillette et al felt this commercial appropriate and necessary.

originally posted by: Necrobile

originally posted by: Boadicea
And, again, why aren't men themselves standing up and being the example, rather than whining and crying that someone said something mean?

There are countless men who do stand up and are examples, but it seems nobody ever pays attention to them. It's like any retail/restaurant environment, it's rare that people actually speak up when they have a good experience, but boy oh boy will they shout at the top of their lungs if they have a bad experience.

There are countless men who defend women on a constant basis, yet nobody ever seems to notice nowadays because we have to make men suffer for how women were treated before, similar that white people need to suffer thanks to black history in america. If you want proof then start a thread talking about men hitting women. Sure, there are men who are abusive a-holes that give many of us a bad name, but the vast majority of men believe that no matter what you should never hit a woman. Doesn't matter what that woman is doing, either. That woman could be hitting you, clawing you, kicking you, biting you, even hold a knife up to your neck and if you do one single physical thing to that woman in self defense, then you are a bastard and those men will want to put you in the hospital.

I know this, and many women know this, and they do take some pretty big advantage of it. Most men are so adamant in this belief that even if the woman is lying about what's happened, they'll still beat the crap out of the guy. I've seen it happen, deserved and undeserved.

Yet, none of this seems to matter, all because a portion of the gender does terrible things. I've seen women do some pretty terrible things in my life, yet I know not all women are this way, yet if you read what's being thrown around nowadays we're led to believe that all men are capable of rape and abuse. This commercial tries to tell everyone that men are compliant with abuse and either enjoy it, or choose to ignore it. That's so not the case, many of them do actually work on stopping it. They're just not being paid attention to, just like many people never write positive reviews when they have a good experience at a retail/restaurant environment.

Did you watch the ad? The bullying was boy on boy bullying.

a reply to: IShotMyLastMuse

In the meantime...
The media spent years promoting the bad boy as the hot guy, the sexiest guys on the planet.

Now suddenly these media generated personalities and behaviors are suppose to change overnight?

It is not going to happen, and they have no hope for it to change in our time.

Their target is your children. They are designing the new generation. Had a conversation with my 14 year old nephew over the weekend, I was amazed. The indoctrination is in full tilt and is amazingly effective.

This #me too and #social manipulation, is all about programming the next generations. We are antiques. Some antiques are placed on a shelf, possessions to be admired, on occasion. Some will be placed in storage for use when absolutely necessary. Some are classified as useless eaters, and highly dispensable.

Us old folks are not their target audience.

a reply to: Boadicea

Are you two married?

You're arguing straight past each other and not addressing a single f# thing the other one is saying.

It's like watching a class on deflection.

originally posted by: NightSkyeB4Dawn
a reply to: IShotMyLastMuse

In the meantime...
The media spent years promoting the bad boy as the hot guy, the sexiest guys on the planet.

Now suddenly these media generated personalities and behaviors are suppose to change overnight?

It is not going to happen, and they have no hope for it to change in our time.

Their target is your children. They are designing the new generation. Had a conversation with my 14 year old nephew over the weekend, I was amazed. The indoctrination is in full tilt and is amazingly effective.

This #me too and #social manipulation, is all about programming the next generations. We are antiques. Some antiques are placed on a shelf, possessions to be admired, on occasion. Some will be placed in storage for use when absolutely necessary. Some are classified as useless eaters, and highly dispensable.

Us old folks are not their target audience.

Children don't buy razor blades, so they are not the target audience.

originally posted by: NthOther
a reply to: Boadicea

Are you two married?

You're arguing straight past each other and not addressing a single f# thing the other one is saying.

It's like watching a class on deflection.

Why didn't you direct that question at Krakatoa instead?

originally posted by: InTheLight

originally posted by: Krakatoa

originally posted by: InTheLight

originally posted by: Krakatoa

originally posted by: Boadicea

originally posted by: ketsuko
a reply to: Boadicea

Find me an example in mass media of a "good" man. Look at sitcoms - the man is almost always the idiot or a womanizer. Action movie heroes are now deemed "toxic".

...

And, again, why aren't men themselves standing up and being the example, rather than whining and crying that someone said something mean?

...

You want a truthful answer, or one that makes you feel right? This is a valid question to ask. Since, anyone that stands up and speaks out as you are implying is immediately labels a misogynist, toxic, or outright harassing of women. Yes, I know this as fact as I have experienced it first hand. When I spoke up about it I was shouted down and demeaned as supporting bullying and dismissing it. Only because I tried to put some reality into the conversation that this is not as widespread now as it was in the past, and that suppressing a boy's natural manhood will cause them psychological harm and personal confusion at a young age. That I have seen manifest itself into anger and outward violence during the puberty stage when there was no strong male role model to guide them through that difficult time.

But then, I fully expect you to take the same tack and begin to accuse me of trying to diminish bullying in that statement.

Is it suppressing a boy's natural manhood to teach him not to bully others?

And there it is.....thanks for proving my point. You immediately go to accusing me of defending bullying.

That is the problem...that is NOT what I was saying at all. You merely interpreted it with the feminist goggles you have been trained to use all these years.

Being a man, a true man, does not include bullying. However, it also does not include being weak and unwilling to defend oneself or others. Bullying is a power thing, and early form of rape if you will. My statement in no way support that position. The fact that you took it that way proves that you have a myopic viewpoint of men and what it means to be one.

Ask yourself where you got that idea. Truly ask yourself. I am willing to bet you will not.

I did not interpreting anything, I was asking you a question because of your previous comment and you turned it around to suit your position, as you usually do. All you had to do was clarify your comments and not make assumptions about me.

Admit it. Your question was based upon a predisposed concept, a form of conformation bias. Its akin to asking the age old loaded question, "how long have you beat your wife?".

If you read my post, and really listened to it, you would see that is NOT what I was saying. Being a boy does not mean bullying, but also does not mean being weak and feminine. There are aspect of being male that women just do not understand....and likely never will. Just as there are aspects of being female that men would never understand.

Case in point. Due to the presence of testosterone (a natural male hormone), boys fight between each other as a form of bonding and mutual respect. It can build lifelong friendships between men. However, all women see are that these boys are fighting and should never do that, ever. That is taking away an aspect of manhood ritual that is essential to the balanced growth into being a man. But, that needs to be guided and focused properly by a man that truly understands that aspect of growing from a boy to a man.

Since the radical feminists have taken over the women's movement, these positive adult male role models are few and far between. The mentors for boys have been systematically exterminated in favor of weak and feminized "male humans". They are not men, they do not deserve to be referred to as such either. This is causing more confused and frustrated boys reaching puberty with NOBODY there to help guide them though these mixed emotions as their chemistry changes. As wonderful and nurturing as many woman can be, it is simply NOT a good substitute for a man that has actually gone through it themselves.

That is the big lie.....WOMEN can do anything. NO. Just as men cannot do everything.

a reply to: Krakatoa

Being a man, a true man, does not include bullying. However, it also does not include being weak and unwilling to defend oneself or others. Bullying is a power thing, and early form of rape if you will. My statement in no way support that position.

Actually, it did. If you refuse to call out the bullying, then you are supporting it by omission. "If you aren't part of the solution, then you are part of the problem." "All that's needed for evil to flourish is for good men to do nothing." "Ye shall know them by the fruits of their labor." It's a fairly well known and long standing concept.

But I'm quite happy to hear your explanation. What exactly in the video was portrayed as "bullying" which, in your opinion, is part of "natural manhood." What exactly is being denied to boys that they need to be a productive and responsible and honorable man?

The fact that you took it that way proves that you have a myopic viewpoint of men and what it means to be one. Ask yourself where you got that idea. Truly ask yourself. I am willing to bet you will not.

Ask yourself. I bet you can figure it out.

Here's a hint... the OP is about men standing up to bullying by other men... you inferred that doing so denies boys their "natural manhood." You gave no different or distinctive or distinguishing explanation or description. If you cannot differentiate, how can we?

a reply to: InTheLight

Not the razor, the message.

originally posted by: NightSkyeB4Dawn
a reply to: InTheLight

Not the razor, the message.

I highly doubt that children are watching and acknowledging messages from adult razor commercials. This ad is directed at adults, old and young.