Its Starting to Happen in Australia

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: Grambler
a reply to: Extorris

Who is saying all immigrants are criminals? I find this is usually just a leftist talking point designed to smear anyone who wants to look at immigration policy

Sure we must just blanket say all crime is bad

We aren’t allowed to look at nuances like what causes inner city crime, or immigrant crime, or white collar crime

Nope it’s all crime

And you are a racist or xenophobic if you look at specifics

Meanwhile we have some countries where the law enforcement agrees with you

And thousands of girls were raped and police didn’t want to act because they feared they would like racist of xenophobic

Which isn't even remotely what Extorris said.

In a recent thread you did you claimed you wanted more civil debate. Part of that is surely dealing with what people actually post, not a strawman version of it.

He said that focusing on immigrant crime makes ome a racist or xenophobic

originally posted by: Grambler
a reply to: Extorris

Sure we must just blanket say all crime is bad

We aren’t allowed to look at nuances like what causes inner city crime, or immigrant crime, or white collar crime

Greed? Poverty? Social isolation?

I have never been able to tell the difference between a criminal and an honest man by the color of their skin or accent.

When it comes to prosecuting crimes, we should never expect police to be social scientists.

You are welcome to have that discussion, though "inner city" "immigrant" and "white collar" are not "causation" that statistics support to any degree that should be taken seriously.

Shall we round up, evict or arrest "white collar" workers now? Residents of the "inner city"?

And thousands of girls were raped and police didn’t want to act because they feared they would like racist of xenophobic

Nonsense.

You would do well to not consume soft-porn racist propaganda.

Those bent and twisted news items from suspect sources are designed to goad local law enforcement into behaving in a more racist manner and provoke anger from the public toward given groups and races.

originally posted by: Grambler

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: Grambler
a reply to: Extorris

Who is saying all immigrants are criminals? I find this is usually just a leftist talking point designed to smear anyone who wants to look at immigration policy

Sure we must just blanket say all crime is bad

We aren’t allowed to look at nuances like what causes inner city crime, or immigrant crime, or white collar crime

Nope it’s all crime

And you are a racist or xenophobic if you look at specifics

Meanwhile we have some countries where the law enforcement agrees with you

And thousands of girls were raped and police didn’t want to act because they feared they would like racist of xenophobic

Which isn't even remotely what Extorris said.

In a recent thread you did you claimed you wanted more civil debate. Part of that is surely dealing with what people actually post, not a strawman version of it.

He said that focusing on immigrant crime makes ome a racist or xenophobic

No He/She didn't. Read the post again.

a reply to: Extorris

The fact you seek to say Rotterdam and the rest was nonsense says all that needs to be said

The official police reports admitted the polices wrong doing for fear of being called racist

No one said round up all immigrants

That is your strawman

We should be allowed to look at crime stats, and try to adjust policy based on them

That doesn’t mean blame people based on race, that a another clever straw man that again seeks to end all conversation

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: Grambler

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: Grambler
a reply to: Extorris

Who is saying all immigrants are criminals? I find this is usually just a leftist talking point designed to smear anyone who wants to look at immigration policy

Sure we must just blanket say all crime is bad

We aren’t allowed to look at nuances like what causes inner city crime, or immigrant crime, or white collar crime

Nope it’s all crime

And you are a racist or xenophobic if you look at specifics

Meanwhile we have some countries where the law enforcement agrees with you

And thousands of girls were raped and police didn’t want to act because they feared they would like racist of xenophobic

Which isn't even remotely what Extorris said.

In a recent thread you did you claimed you wanted more civil debate. Part of that is surely dealing with what people actually post, not a strawman version of it.

He said that focusing on immigrant crime makes ome a racist or xenophobic

No He/She didn't. Read the post again.

Ok I read it again

Yep it still says that focusing on immigrant crimes is saying causation which is bigoted

originally posted by: Grambler

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: Grambler
a reply to: Extorris

Who is saying all immigrants are criminals? I find this is usually just a leftist talking point designed to smear anyone who wants to look at immigration policy

Sure we must just blanket say all crime is bad

We aren’t allowed to look at nuances like what causes inner city crime, or immigrant crime, or white collar crime

Nope it’s all crime

And you are a racist or xenophobic if you look at specifics

Meanwhile we have some countries where the law enforcement agrees with you

And thousands of girls were raped and police didn’t want to act because they feared they would like racist of xenophobic

Which isn't even remotely what Extorris said.

In a recent thread you did you claimed you wanted more civil debate. Part of that is surely dealing with what people actually post, not a strawman version of it.

He said that focusing on immigrant crime makes ome a racist or xenophobic

Perhaps you don't know the definition of causation? OR neglected to actually read the post you responded to?

At least I hope so, otherwise you are intentionally and dishonestly misstating what I wrote.

originally posted by: Extorris

Crime.
It's worth worrying about.

Immigrant Crime? Yes. Native Crime? Yes.
Crime is always worth examining and prosecuting.

Now, we can conflate ethnicity and immigration with crime, but that speaks to race, ethnicity and country of origin as causation. That distinction is what makes a racist or bigot different than someone concerned with public safety.

That is the nature of Xenophobic, Racist et al. propaganda. The inferred causation between race, immigration status and criminal activity.

originally posted by: Grambler

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: Grambler

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: Grambler
a reply to: Extorris

Who is saying all immigrants are criminals? I find this is usually just a leftist talking point designed to smear anyone who wants to look at immigration policy

Sure we must just blanket say all crime is bad

We aren’t allowed to look at nuances like what causes inner city crime, or immigrant crime, or white collar crime

Nope it’s all crime

And you are a racist or xenophobic if you look at specifics

Meanwhile we have some countries where the law enforcement agrees with you

And thousands of girls were raped and police didn’t want to act because they feared they would like racist of xenophobic

Which isn't even remotely what Extorris said.

In a recent thread you did you claimed you wanted more civil debate. Part of that is surely dealing with what people actually post, not a strawman version of it.

He said that focusing on immigrant crime makes ome a racist or xenophobic

No He/She didn't. Read the post again.

Ok I read it again

Yep it still says that focusing on immigrant crimes is saying causation which is bigoted

I don't find discussions where a poster tells the poster what they actually meant in their own post as either honest or productive.

originally posted by: Grambler

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: Grambler

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: Grambler
a reply to: Extorris

Who is saying all immigrants are criminals? I find this is usually just a leftist talking point designed to smear anyone who wants to look at immigration policy

Sure we must just blanket say all crime is bad

We aren’t allowed to look at nuances like what causes inner city crime, or immigrant crime, or white collar crime

Nope it’s all crime

And you are a racist or xenophobic if you look at specifics

Meanwhile we have some countries where the law enforcement agrees with you

And thousands of girls were raped and police didn’t want to act because they feared they would like racist of xenophobic

Which isn't even remotely what Extorris said.

In a recent thread you did you claimed you wanted more civil debate. Part of that is surely dealing with what people actually post, not a strawman version of it.

He said that focusing on immigrant crime makes ome a racist or xenophobic

No He/She didn't. Read the post again.

Ok I read it again

Yep it still says that focusing on immigrant crimes is saying causation which is bigoted

I see Extortis has already replied. As I said try taking your own advice.

originally posted by: Grambler
a reply to: Extorris

The fact you seek to say Rotterdam and the rest was nonsense says all that needs to be said

The official police reports admitted the polices wrong doing for fear of being called racist

You didn't say anything about the specific case of Rotherdam in your post I responded to.

And the failure of the British Government was multi-faceted, and yes, included the consideration of Race in their lack of investigation and prosecution.

That speaks directly to my point that crime should be investigated and prosecuted without consideration of ethnicity, racial or immigrant status.

Rotherdam is a sad parallel to outdated law enforcement practices in the USA which used to leave "Little Italy" "China Town' and other pockets largely un-monitored by official local law enforcement.

originally posted by: Extorris

originally posted by: Grambler

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: Grambler
a reply to: Extorris

Who is saying all immigrants are criminals? I find this is usually just a leftist talking point designed to smear anyone who wants to look at immigration policy

Sure we must just blanket say all crime is bad

We aren’t allowed to look at nuances like what causes inner city crime, or immigrant crime, or white collar crime

Nope it’s all crime

And you are a racist or xenophobic if you look at specifics

Meanwhile we have some countries where the law enforcement agrees with you

And thousands of girls were raped and police didn’t want to act because they feared they would like racist of xenophobic

Which isn't even remotely what Extorris said.

In a recent thread you did you claimed you wanted more civil debate. Part of that is surely dealing with what people actually post, not a strawman version of it.

He said that focusing on immigrant crime makes ome a racist or xenophobic

Perhaps you don't know the definition of causation? OR neglected to actually read the post you responded to?

At least I hope so, otherwise you are intentionally and dishonestly misstating what I wrote.

originally posted by: Extorris

Crime.
It's worth worrying about.

Immigrant Crime? Yes. Native Crime? Yes.
Crime is always worth examining and prosecuting.

Now, we can conflate ethnicity and immigration with crime, but that speaks to race, ethnicity and country of origin as causation. That distinction is what makes a racist or bigot different than someone concerned with public safety.

That is the nature of Xenophobic, Racist et al. propaganda. The inferred causation between race, immigration status and criminal activity.

What did you mean we can conflate immigration with crime, but that speaks to race etc. as causation?

I took that to mean if we are focused on crimes being committed by immigrants, we are saying there race etnicty and orgin is the cause of that crime, and that is racist.

Please explain then what you meant.

An even easier way to make it clear; do you think all of the people at this rally were racist?

originally posted by: Extorris

originally posted by: Grambler
a reply to: Extorris

The fact you seek to say Rotterdam and the rest was nonsense says all that needs to be said

The official police reports admitted the polices wrong doing for fear of being called racist

You didn't say anything about the specific case of Rotherdam in your post I responded to.

And the failure of the British Government was multi-faceted, and yes, included the consideration of Race in their lack of investigation and prosecution.

That speaks directly to my point that crime should be investigated and prosecuted without consideration of ethnicity, racial or immigrant status.

Rotherdam is a sad parallel to outdated law enforcement practices in the USA which used to leave "Little Italy" "China Town' and other pockets largely un-monitored by official local law enforcement.

Rottherdam and others shows what happen when we say we shouldnt focus on who is committing crime because it may lead to saying ethnicty is causation and that is racist.

Yes, crime should be investigated regardless of race. Thats the point. People were concerned in that case that the crimes werent being investigated because of race.

Thats what I saw in the video of this austarlian protest, people concerned crime is being brushed under the rug because of the race of the people committing it.

Again, I have admitted I dont know if that is true or not.

But these seem to be legitimate concerns that one could have without being a racist or xenophobe.

And the fact that you kknew about rottherham and admit that race played a key roll in not investigating it, yet still claimed I was pushing soft core porn to demonize a race shows that you are disingenios, and seek to make claims of racism to cover up facts that dont fit your narrative.

a reply to: Extorris

Both you and Grambler.

No d.

Rotherham.

Sorry if sounds picky but just to avoid confusion.

originally posted by: Grambler

originally posted by: Extorris

originally posted by: Grambler

originally posted by: ScepticScot

originally posted by: Grambler
a reply to: Extorris

Who is saying all immigrants are criminals? I find this is usually just a leftist talking point designed to smear anyone who wants to look at immigration policy

Sure we must just blanket say all crime is bad

We aren’t allowed to look at nuances like what causes inner city crime, or immigrant crime, or white collar crime

Nope it’s all crime

And you are a racist or xenophobic if you look at specifics

Meanwhile we have some countries where the law enforcement agrees with you

And thousands of girls were raped and police didn’t want to act because they feared they would like racist of xenophobic

Which isn't even remotely what Extorris said.

In a recent thread you did you claimed you wanted more civil debate. Part of that is surely dealing with what people actually post, not a strawman version of it.

He said that focusing on immigrant crime makes ome a racist or xenophobic

Perhaps you don't know the definition of causation? OR neglected to actually read the post you responded to?

At least I hope so, otherwise you are intentionally and dishonestly misstating what I wrote.

originally posted by: Extorris

Crime.
It's worth worrying about.

Immigrant Crime? Yes. Native Crime? Yes.
Crime is always worth examining and prosecuting.

Now, we can conflate ethnicity and immigration with crime, but that speaks to race, ethnicity and country of origin as causation. That distinction is what makes a racist or bigot different than someone concerned with public safety.

That is the nature of Xenophobic, Racist et al. propaganda. The inferred causation between race, immigration status and criminal activity.

What did you mean we can conflate immigration with crime, but that speaks to race etc. as causation?

conflate verb
con·​flate | kən-ˈflāt
conflated; conflating
Definition of conflate
transitive verb

1a : to bring together : FUSE
b : CONFUSE

Crimes can and should be investigated and prosecuted independent of considerations for race, ethnicity or immigrant status.

That does not appear to be a radical proposition to me. It is the premise of our justice system although, like all things, imperfectly executed.

originally posted by: ScepticScot
a reply to: Extorris

Both you and Grambler.

No d.

Rotherham.

Sorry if sounds picky but just to avoid confusion.

Eh crap!

I new i was misspelling that.

Doesnt matter though, I have so many typos i will still butcher it.

a reply to: ScepticScot

Thanks

a reply to: Extorris

I understand the definition of conflate.

I am asking you point blank; those that were at this rally worried about migrant crime and how the media and government deals with it, were they racist or xenophobic?

a reply to: Grambler

Of course it's not racist to have concerns about immigration. Unless those concerns overwhelmingly focus on race.

I think if someone has concerns, and their way of expressing then is to got to actually organised by fairly overtly racist organisations, then perhaps they are not displaying the best judgement.

In the interests of more detail here is a link from the Daily Mail, a right wing news source. (Hopefully works this time)

www.dailymail.co.uk...

originally posted by: Grambler

originally posted by: ScepticScot
a reply to: Extorris

Both you and Grambler.

No d.

Rotherham.

Sorry if sounds picky but just to avoid confusion.

Eh crap!

I new i was misspelling that.

Doesnt matter though, I have so many typos i will still butcher it.

No worries.

Pretty sure my own standard of spelling for US place names is embarrassingly bad.

a reply to: ScepticScot

But that assumes people no all of the background of the group putting on the rally.

Many people probably feel their voivce is not being heard, because to even speak on these issues many times they are called racsit.

So they go to a rally with like minded people..

Some of those people may be scum bags, but that doesnt mean all are.

Again, we see this all the time.

Imagine being at a rally for blacks in the US, when large groups start chanting pigs in a blanket fry them like bacon.

Does that mean everyone there is a scum bag advocating violence? No.

Imagine going to a womans march not knowing that one of the leaders, Linda Sarsour once claimed that a woman named Hirsi Ali who was a victim of female genital mutilation should have her vagina taken away, and has made many anti semitic comments.

I think it is wrong to ignore the message all of these people have because they must be bad by associating with terrible people.

originally posted by: Grambler
a reply to: ScepticScot

But that assumes people no all of the background of the group putting on the rally.

Many people probably feel their voivce is not being heard, because to even speak on these issues many times they are called racsit.

So they go to a rally with like minded people..

Some of those people may be scum bags, but that doesnt mean all are.

Again, we see this all the time.

Imagine being at a rally for blacks in the US, when large groups start chanting pigs in a blanket fry them like bacon.

Does that mean everyone there is a scum bag advocating violence? No.

Imagine going to a womans march not knowing that one of the leaders, Linda Sarsour once claimed that a woman named Hirsi Ali who was a victim of female genital mutilation should have her vagina taken away, and has made many anti semitic comments.

I think it is wrong to ignore the message all of these people have because they must be bad by associating with terrible people.

In this case it was a rally organised by far right groups. They weren't just there as speakers

I suspect ( and this is purely an opinion) that a large proportion of those present are members of those groups. Attendance seems to have been pretty small.

People shouldn't be called racist just for having concerns about racism. However on this site I see far more instances of people claiming it happens than it actually happening. See this thread for an example.

What doesn't help those with legitimate concerns is defending outright racists like Cordell just because they have some overlap in concerns.