6th Generation Fighter Meta Thread

The northrop concept in the commercial reminds me of those rendering. I don't remember where I've found them evn tho they look more like a stealth strike plateform (like a modern F-117) than some of the NGAD concepts.

a reply to: Ghoul

TBH, the more I think about it, I have a very strong suspicion the NGAD: F-X/PCA and FA-XX will have a strike capability, but it won't be used much in a high end war. The reason being that air defenses are getting quite good: sensors are becoming ridiculously cheap and can be carried virtually anywhere by anything. Sending in a highly expensive asset on the first day of the war could very well be suicide.

To that end, the NGADs, etc. will end up orchestrating hordes of weapons and UCAVs from afar. The first waves will be purely expendable: cruise missiles, hypersonic weapons, etc. The second wave will be cheap UAVs in massive waves: they'll carry items like GBU-53bs and even, potentially, smallish AAMs: think Gremlins, but a bit more. The third wave will have what's being call attritable aircraft: Valkyries and her sisters. Then will be the actual Loyal Wingmen, Air Power Systems and Avengers, flying with the NGADs and FA-XXs.

Even then, the 6th gen aircraft are likely to stay at least 60, probably 100 nm, away from their targets. The close in dirty work will be done by UCAVs and stand-off strike weapons.

a reply to: Ghoul
Where you find it , it look like real pictures ?

a reply to: anzha
I totally agree.

I clearly think there will be more than one type of aircraft. The NGAD concept isn't just an aircraft, it is a family of system so in my opinion we will get an air superiority fighter with VLO tech, long range and high mach to be adapted to the pacific theater.
Then we can get a similar plateform but with a limited strike capability, a little bit like the F-117 back in the days, to hit some precise key targets. I always liked the comparison with a "sniper", not a lot of shot fired but very well placed.

And of course drones and stand off weapons will take more and more space, and I think we can see it with everything that is being developped.

But for a first night type scenario, there is already some systems and plateform made for that (prompt global strike), the coming B-21, hypersonic missiles, stealth cruise missiles etc... so having a couple of 6th gen fighters to act as an escort just in case would make sense.

a reply to: darksidius

I guenuinely don't remember but they clearly are CGI

So apparently these rendering are made by Steve Douglass to illustrate some of his sightings.
And this one is representing something he saw taking off from the northrup strip in the white sand range just after sunset according to his own words.



It is just a sighting, perhaps it could be related to our thread but I don't want to drift off topic.

Chinese precooled jet engine like what the UK's Reaction Engines has been working on for the UK

The Italians envision combining the FCAS and Tempest programs:

www.thedrive.com...

originally posted by: anzha
Chinese precooled jet engine like what the UK's Reaction Engines has been working on for the UK

Wonder how much of the Chinese development is stolen from Reaction Engines!

a reply to: anzha

On the BAE Tempest merging with the Franco/German/Spanish FCAS.

Personally, I doubt the UK-led Tempest programme will merge with the politically belligerent and adversarial French. Can you imagine the fight over who does what, workshare and project leadership? France would expect the UK to be a subservient partner, and that won’t work. So, I don't see it happening, and Brexit has pretty much scrapped the chances of close partnership in this type of multi-decade industrial and technology programme.

At best there will be collaboration around the edges, but the UK would be more likely to move into a US programme if Tempest was unviable, where being a trusted subservient partner is, tolerable and pays dividends, like F35 for instance.

The real question is at what point do Italy leave Tempest because of pressure from France and Germany (i.e. the EU). In ten years, Italy will have zero sovereignty in the EU and will just do what they are told, because the FCAS will (I believe) become incorporated in an EU-wide defence programme. It’s where all this is going in EU-land.

Just my opinion and probably on a risk register somewhere.

think we have talked on this before.I doubt Uk will play with the French again after the Taranis fiasco..BAE are strong enough to do it themselves now.

Personally, I doubt the UK-led Tempest programme will merge with the politically belligerent and adversarial French.

I don't disagree. despite everyone saying europe can only afford one program, it seems to me to be a political nonstarter for the two to merge.

At best there will be collaboration around the edges, but the UK would be more likely to move into a US programme if Tempest was unviable, where being a trusted subservient partner is, tolerable and pays dividends, like F35 for instance.

I understand where you are coming from, but the USAF 6th gen is looking to be something rather different than what the Tempest and FCAS are at this point. While there has been some talk of a shorter range variant for use in Europe, the Pacific is where the main emphasis of the F-XX/PCA/whatever we call it today. It strikes me as more practical, potentially, to move into the USN's FA-XX and use it on land or cross deck onto the USN carriers if the RAF would be up for it.


www.flightglobal.com...

www.thedrive.com...

Whats missing from the UAV arsenal these days?It may give us a clue..Transport and recon?

a reply to: Blackfinger

Transport and air to air combat, at least high end.

The NGAD has been underway since Kendall was the undersecretary of defense for acquisition, technology, and logistics, but has gone beyond the technology demonstrator stage, he said.

...

It has “moved forward very well” and will be the next-generation fighter after the F-35, but as part of a system of systems, Kendall noted. The other elements of the system, he said, “will be backward compatible” to fourth-generation aircraft, as well.

www.airforcemag.com...

www.yomiuri.co.jp...

Japan and the Brits are nearing a deal on F-X (next gen Japanese fighter) development.

The Japanese and Brits signed for the joint development of engines:

www.thedrive.com...
www.flightglobal.com...
www.janes.com...

originally posted by: anzha
The Japanese and Brits signed for the joint development of engines:

Here's the UK Gov official announcement, from which various links take their source material...

As a side-note... Rolls Royce and Mitsubishi (aero engines) have a good history of working together, so could be good.

Chinese 6th gen concept as a model in a trade fair.

a reply to: anzha
What do you reckon 4-5 years before that's in the air?