NEWS: Judge Orders Feeding Tube to Be Removed

Originally posted by dgtempe
My nephew drowned in Cape Cod on an outing with my kids, Fred. His mother cried and cried and said :" God even if he's a vegetable let him live"
As it turned out, it was not Gods will for him to live. I do not agree with you, Fred. Where there is life there is hope.

I'm very sorry to hear that and having cared for drowned children both before and after thier "miracles" I hope you realize it was for the best. I am not saying this to be cold or callous but it comes from 10 years of caring and transporting these children. More than even I care to admit upon reflection. Please understand I do not mean any ill will by this next piece:

When the brain is deprived of oxygen, cells die. Medical science does not allow the regeneration of neural tissue let alone the collective memories of in the case of the kids I have cased for thier short lifetimes. At about the 3 minute mark cells begin dieing off. As the hypoxia continues, the acidity of the blood increases because of all of the carbon dioxide and lactic acid. The wave of cellular death continues even after resuscitative efforts are initiated and normal oxygen levels are restored and the acidosis is corrected. By this time the child is in the ICU on a respirator. About 24 hours after the event, the second wave of damage occurs. The brain after the hypoxia even begins swelling this swelling if left untreated in children with a closed skull causes further damage as there is only one place for the brain to go and that is downward into the spinal canal through a whole in the base of the skull called the foramen magnum. As the swelling builds, the brain stem begins to be pushed down the hole. The brain stem is responsible for everything we do that we do not actively think about from breathing to blinking etc. The signs of this buildup are collectively known as Cushings triad It includes high blood-pressure, slowing heart rate, and irregular breathing or even a total stop. Known as herniation, there is no recovery. However, if this is stopped by a variety of methods (drugs, surgery, etc) The child's body will live on, because the brain-stem during the hypoxia event was protected as best as possible. However everything that makes this child a special unique individual is gone, lost forever.

I have been at the bedside numerous times for the scenario you described Dg. At that moment parents simply do not care and will take anything. Every twitch or spasm is accepted as purposeful, and I feel for them especially since I am a parent myself. But few people remain around for the aftermath of these children. Most cases a tracheostomy has to be performed as they are vent dependent. A tube is inserted for feeding formula, surgeries are a frequent occurrence to deal with contractures and the like, bedsores abound, not from poor care (Although this happens) but lack of normal nutrition and the like. The patients move from care facility beds to hospital beds and back. The overwhelming crush of relatives fades and eventually trickles down to a stop for alot of families.

You get to spend time with the parents especially on transport (We are one of the few Nurse led teams in the area as well as one that will take parents on all but the sickest transports) and get to know them. A few have confessed that had they known then what they know now, they may have made different choices.

We are blessed in the SF Bay Area with the Children's Recovery Center that cares for these children. Started by a pediatrician, it takes care of the chronic children. Far from the horror stories you see on TV, this place is clean and actually looks like a medium priced hotel. Alot of places are not like this. We picked up a child in the Central Valley near Fresno, and the child who had drowned when she was 10, had not had a visitor in over a year

Now by now you are wondering how this impacts the care my patients receive. I can tell you that if as a parent you tell me to go all out I will do so to the best of my ability till you tell me to stop. Nor would I give you a true opinion of mine if asked. My response is always the same: "You have to do what is best for you and your family based on your thoughts and feelings".

Why is Terri's husband not being allowed to do this?

Originally posted by worldwatcher
surf her being bulimic or whatever tendencies she had in the past has nothing to do with this. Why is it so hard to believe that her husband has her best interests in mind?

I am going to have to disagree with your first statement and thanks to Grady, I have real proof.

But keeping the weight off was a struggle for Terri Schiavo, and years later — after her heart stopped briefly, cutting off oxygen to the brain — a malpractice case brought against a doctor on her behalf would reveal she had been trying to survive on liquids and was making herself throw up after meals. The Schiavos' attorney said her 1990 collapse was caused by a potassium imbalance brought on by an eating disorder.

As you can clearly see, her bulimic tendencies have more than something to do with her current state.

I am not saying her husband doesn't care for her or that he cares for her, all I am saying is that it is very possible that she is in this position because of the society.

Surf

What proof? That she may have been suicidal? That her husband won a medical judgement against the docs that treated her? :shk:

Any idea how much nursing home care costs per year, and Im talking just room and board? Just that were looking at 400K plus. Add to that his prolonged leagal bills cause her parents are having issues letting go and the throw that onto the pile. Add up all the other items and he is going to be lucky if he has anything left.

Originally posted by FredT
What proof? That she may have been suicidal? That her husband won a medical judgement against the docs that treated her? :shk:

That she was bulimic and obessesed with being extremely thing.

Read the quoted passage below in the previous thread.

Again I never said anything about anything else.

Surf

I hate having to post opinions on threads that had to do with subjects as life and death.

I for one feel that if the family want the women let them have her and take care of her.

If the husband does not want her, for god sakes give her back to her parents they will take care of her.

If it has to do with insurances I imagine that once he gives away it's rights of her somebody else will take the responsibility to pay for her care.

It's one thing that bothers me and is the fact that she is awake that's what keep me thinking that perhaps is still somebody in that body after all.

Very hard decisions to make and to many politics and bureaucracy involved, too many groups trying to push their agendas also, the poor woman’s situation the husband request and the parents have become a media circus.

[edit on 26-2-2005 by marg6043]

It would be easy to turn her over to the parents Marg and the husband could simply wash his hand of the whole sad sorry affair. He is fighting why? Its not as if he stand to inherit some huge sum of money, but perhaps this is not the way she wanted to live.

As Rant pointed out earlier and no one has bit on, its a huge sliperry slope here. As a husband it is his decion based on the laws of the land. Now activist governor and legislature has tried to take that away. These same groups that are doing this also have reduced his rights as a husband to those of a meer domestic partner and not the cherished institutional rights of marrige many hold so dear.

Whats next? You cannot make medical decisons for your children because an aunt opposes say immunizations? Or your kid has exposed brain matter in a car accident but a grandparent wants to preserve life at all costs? extreme examples yes, but far fetched? No anymore I am afraid.

And that is the reason FredT that a responsible person in his safe mind should make a living will and have it updated in the case of an emergency.

It's so sad that things with that family has to come to this point. So sad.

Originally posted by marg6043
And that is the reason FredT that a responsible person in his safe mind should make a living will and have it updated in the case of an emergency.

I agree and my wife and I have an extensive set for the both of us. They differ a bit, but we get down to brass tacks and cover alot of territoty with what we want and do not want done and various scenarios. However, do understand that a loved one can and have changed thier minds at the last minute.

Originally posted by FredT
. However, do understand that a loved one can and have changed thier minds at the last minute.

Yes but is better when a living will is there to put a stop, when I was working for Family Services in Quantico VA. I served many times as witness on living wills that's why I feel they are so important.

Thanks, Fred

I really admire the kind of work you do. I cant help but feel awfully selfish right now. I guess when i analyze the situation, the living who want these people to live and breathe at all costs are being selfish. Its true.

But the loving human part of me doesnt see this right away and i would guess it would be a long time after it that someone like me would say"they're better off dead". My instinct would be to save them at all costs, save the life and the rest will come. Thats not being realistic and i understand, Fred. But its me.

Originally posted by GradyPhilpott
Boy. I think everyone here is suffering from lack of oxygen to the brain.

Would YOU want to live like that?

I would rather be torn apart by a pack of wild dogs than to live the rest of my life like that and have made it clear in my Living Will. If I could just move one arm I would use it to stick my .45 in my mouth and pull the trigger.

I hope if I get to that point I dont have a bunch of ****** keeping me alive to show Jesus what good people they are reguardless of my wishes in the issue.

Grady as you have said before, some things are worse than death and this is one of them. If ANYONE gave a damn about the poor woman they would put her out of her misery.

BTW On Joe Scarbrough they showed where not only has the money been spent from the award, but the Parents offered him a large sum to sign away rights and he refused. I dont see how that shows he is in it for the money.

If she were my wife I would put a pillow over her head and take my punishment.

Her husbands does not care at all about his wife, otherwise, hed not subject her to a slow, lingering, painful death of starvation.

He wants her to die so he can marry his new bimbo and get her money.

It is clear from watching Terry that she really is more than a veggie. She can breathe on her own, she reponds to and understands things, ect.

Removing her feeding tube sounds like slow painful manslaughter to me, I hope they dont succeed.

Originally posted by dgtempe
from www.rense.com

Then my bi-partisan advice would be for everyone to stop watching FOXNEWS and reading RENSE for their emotional jollies to make medical and legal decisions about what another man's spousal right's should be.

[edit on 27-2-2005 by RANT]

Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf
It is clear from watching Terry that she really is more than a veggie. She can breathe on her own, she reponds to and understands things, ect.

As Gazrok has pointed out elsewhere from the non-stop local coverage in Fla, those tapes the national news show are ooooooooold. Years old.

She's gone already.

If the life freaks would let us pass progressive euthenasia laws, she'd have peace without starvation... but it's illegal sadly and both strongly contested and punished with little chance of ever passing.

So who's really starving her here?

I have 2 problems with this whole mess.

1. He has another family now. How long do husbandly rights continue? If Terry could speak, would there not be a divorce? Essentially eliminating the husband as her spokesperson?

2. The courts saying she cannot be fed my mouth (or at least attempts made to do that) after the feeding tube is removed. As a nurse I have been witness to many cases of life support (as in respirators) being removed. Once the respirator is removed, sometimes the patient breathes on their own for awhile. We do not suck all the air out of the room, on the off chance that they might get some oxygen and take a few breaths by themselves. If the court says she needs to die because she is no longer human, then at least they should give her a shot and end it right away. Murderers get at least that much.

People,

Theres power in PRAYER, may I suggest that we take today and tomorrow and put our energy and faith forward and pray for a miracle here, for this woman and her family.


I've been following this story for a while now... it's truely a sad situation.

Husbands or wives have such a different view of their spouse's life than the parents. He married her, probably loved her. At least, he said he did when they were married, and even if I "fell out of love" with a spouse, I'd still respect their wishes for the years we'd been together. She probably does want to go.

Her parents should just let her go in peace and think of the way she probably feels (if she can feel at all) instead of being selfish and worrying about what they would do if she were gone.

Originally posted by mj13
Husbands or wives have such a different view of their spouse's life than the parents. He married her, probably loved her. At least, he said he did when they were married, and even if I "fell out of love" with a spouse, I'd still respect their wishes for the years we'd been together. She probably does want to go.

Her parents should just let her go in peace and think of the way she probably feels (if she can feel at all) instead of being selfish and worrying about what they would do if she were gone.

I agree the parents should let her go, however the pro-lifers are doing all they can to extend her life and that is wrong.

The Fla House just passed a bill that will prevent the husband from having the feeding tube removed.

Fla. House OKs Bill to Keep Schiavo Alive

As sad as this is, this case is far from over thanks to Jeb Bush and pro-lifers.

BTW I did not submit the story as news since it is not over yet, then and only then will it be news worthy.

Who knows this may go on for months perhaps years...................

I say let her go, the medical evidence is there and it says she will never live a normal life again.

[edit on 3/17/2005 by shots]

GOP Asks Brain-Damaged Woman to Testify


Just as I stated yesterday this will not be over for sometime to come.

Just one question though, how can a brain damaged person testify?

Judge: Keep Schiavo Feeding Tube in Place

And then one minute later

Judge OKs Removal of Schiavo Feeding Tube

The presiding judge in the case of Terri Schiavo ruled Friday that the feeding tube keeping the brain-damaged woman alive can be removed despite efforts by congressional Republicans to block the move by seeking her appearance at hearings.


Pinellas Circuit Judge George Greer refused a request from U.S. House attorneys to delay the removal, which he had previously ordered to take place at 1 p.m. EST. Greer determined that it should go forward about an hour after another judge issued a temporary delay blocking the tube's removal.


There was no immediate word on when the tube might be removed.

[edit on 3/18/2005 by shots]