BREAKING: Active Shooter Thousand Oaks

originally posted by: dreamingawake
a reply to: djz3ro

The sicko wanted to go and take everyone with him. Exactly what I was addressing with the terror reference. People used to commit suicide, not they want everyone around them to die as well.

Locally, FFS, someone #snip who viciously murdered a woman, was so preciously impatient with a bridge not being open yet so he shot into two people's car nearly killing them and a child before killing himself.

It's times like these I'm ashamed to call myself a human.

a reply to: AScrubWhoDied

You might not like Texas in the long run. Well, maybe the big city.

Hunting and gun ownership go back a long way here. Although you have firearms so I guess you are covered.

So is it Trump supporter or a crazy liberal?

And dont act like it doesnt matter after the Pittsburgh synagogue.

a reply to: Wayfarer

whats killed more people recently

Heart disease,Cancer but whose counting.

Gun phobes sure aren't.

www.medicalnewstoday.com...

a reply to: Grambler

I think the the tool used matters when it's the preferred tool. I mean, you don't see any correlation with mass 'shooting' vice other tools which could be used as weapons?

Yes the second is there for a reason. Now dissect what that reason is and why and the year it was written, the type of society back then, the population number vs today, and the amount of guns that were available then vs today.

You're bright and well articulated, but don't stop be rational in just political banter, keep the logic and lateral thinking when people are actually dying.

Citizenship right to those born on USA soil made great sense back then; again compare the type of society it was, they didn't have anchor babies, or 330 million people or over 10 million illegal immigrants. Nor was it the same society and mentality.

I mean, you're intellectual in every other aspect, but the main culprit fof mass shootings is ambiguous to you?

The operative word is 'shooting', not intent.

I'm not advocating removal of the second, but why not revise it to fit today's society.

Just like the birth citizenship right could be use some modification.

originally posted by: Wayfarer

originally posted by: Grambler

originally posted by: Wayfarer

originally posted by: caterpillage
a reply to: Wayfarer

I have a 95 beretta I'll sell you for 100 bucks. It runs and drives fine, and will kill as many people as you can hit with it. It's kind of a death trap to the people in it too, and no background check required what so ever

Why are all these folks shooting up these places then if cars are way easier and more effective means of killing?

Because its easier to kill people with guns, particulaarly in a building.

I concede that.

So then you would just outlaw the tool that is easiest to kill people with.

So ok, lets say we get rid of guns.

Now 5 years from now we check again.

Now killers are using cars the most. So do we now ban cars?

Then five years later its knives.

The point is, once we start banning the tool most used, when do we stop?

I pripose we stop focuing on the tool, and focus more on the type of people that use the tool to kill, and how to help on that end.

I dunno man, sounds a bit like a defeatist attitude. It stops after we correct all the avenue's that make it easy for crazies to kill people. Barricades for cars, etc.

There is a solution to it all, just not the will. Surprisingly, on the whole most 2nd amendment supporters seem to change their tune when they or their own loved ones are the victims of gun violence.

No there is no solution.

No matter how hard we try or what we do, killers will always exist. Period.

Now we can take actions to limit that, but we have to make value judgements between how mcu freedom do we give up for safety.

You seem to be suggesting giving up huge amounts, and I am asking where do we stop.

I favor giving up a much smaller amount.

And your point about victims changing their mind, irrelavant. I bet most people that have had their lives saved by an armed good guy would also favor allowing guns as well.

Here is my video on it.

a reply to: Grambler

Guns aren't the problem: it's the easy access to attaining guns legally is the issue. Most of the guns used here in Canada for violent crimes dont come from Canada, despite the fact guns are legal here.

I'll give you TWO guesses where they come from...

America is collectively a sick and demented nation. If you dont believe me; travel the world for a bit; take it all in how other societies interact with each other in day to day life; then go back to America and take it all in....

originally posted by: Grambler

originally posted by: Wayfarer

originally posted by: Grambler

originally posted by: Wayfarer

originally posted by: caterpillage
a reply to: Wayfarer

I have a 95 beretta I'll sell you for 100 bucks. It runs and drives fine, and will kill as many people as you can hit with it. It's kind of a death trap to the people in it too, and no background check required what so ever

Why are all these folks shooting up these places then if cars are way easier and more effective means of killing?

Because its easier to kill people with guns, particulaarly in a building.

I concede that.

So then you would just outlaw the tool that is easiest to kill people with.

So ok, lets say we get rid of guns.

Now 5 years from now we check again.

Now killers are using cars the most. So do we now ban cars?

Then five years later its knives.

The point is, once we start banning the tool most used, when do we stop?

I pripose we stop focuing on the tool, and focus more on the type of people that use the tool to kill, and how to help on that end.

I dunno man, sounds a bit like a defeatist attitude. It stops after we correct all the avenue's that make it easy for crazies to kill people. Barricades for cars, etc.

There is a solution to it all, just not the will. Surprisingly, on the whole most 2nd amendment supporters seem to change their tune when they or their own loved ones are the victims of gun violence.

No there is no solution.

There we go. This is what I was looking for. The solution is to actually make guns more prevalent, and more easily accessible. The only result that changes anything is if we are all killed in gun violence.

originally posted by: notsure1
So is it Trump supporter or a crazy liberal?

And dont act like it doesnt matter after the Pittsburgh synagogue.

The Pittsburgh shooter is neither a crazy liberal nor a Trump supporter. The shooter in this case was a Marine combat vet who served in Afghanistan and who may have had PTSD. I haven't had much time to catch up yet this afternoon but I saw some articles that had images from his social media so I assume people have already pored over all that and not come up with anything pointing to a motivation.

Just another day in the new Rome
America, land of violence and the Dammed
Amazing hardly any real press at 12 people
Gunned down to death
Only in America!

Watch out folks caused were going into another...

Winter in America!

originally posted by: neo96
a reply to: Wayfarer

whats killed more people recently

Heart disease,Cancer but whose counting.

Gun phobes sure aren't.

www.medicalnewstoday.com...

I said actions by crazy people. Last I checked crazy people weren't walking into establishments killing folks with heart disease and cancer....

originally posted by: theantediluvian

originally posted by: notsure1
So is it Trump supporter or a crazy liberal?

And dont act like it doesnt matter after the Pittsburgh synagogue.

The Pittsburgh shooter is neither a crazy liberal nor a Trump supporter. .

Didnt stop the media from reporting it was due to Trump and him hating Jews.

originally posted by: Grambler
a reply to: AScrubWhoDied

Guns are effective tools as well as weapons.

There's no practical use for a firearm other than killing.

originally posted by: Grambler
Yes, guns are designed to kill, but not specifically humans. Just like knifes are designed to cut, but not specifally humans.

You propose the firearm's inception was to do anything other than kill people?

originally posted by: Grambler
Why does it matter what the intent of the item is, rather than the result?

You're conflating accident with intent. Many people die in vehicle accidents, zero people have accidently when into a night club and killed a bunch of people.

Thousands of car accidents without intent.
A lot of vehicular homicides with intent.
100 % of mass shootings have intent.

originally posted by: Grambler
If a childrens toy is designed for fun, but kids keep choking on it and dying, do we care what its was designed for?

What do we do? Does the parent company redesign it? You bet your ass they do, otherwise the risk getting sued.
When someone suggests that we look at how easy it is to get a gun, people lose their #.

originally posted by: Grambler
But your argument is that although cars kill WAY more people, they should get a pass because of the intent of their design over guns.

What pass? Needing a drivers license? Needed to be of age? Needed to pass a test to certify you know what the # you're doing while drive?

I don't need to do any of that to go acquire a tool designed to only kill.

Funny how that works huh?

Again, you're conflating accidents with intent.

originally posted by: Grambler
The 2nd amendment is there for a reason.
We have a right to own guns, they are effective tools for protection and the hunting of game, and protect us from tyranny.

It's more like a religion, logic out the window.

a reply to: odzeandennz

Hey man I apporeciate you calling me smart.

I think you are as well!

But we both think each other are being dumb with their argument here.

If you feel like watching my vieo i just posted I discuss it more their.

But here is some.

Ok guns are most used, so we get rid of them. Next year its cars. How isnt every single thing you just typed a reason to get rid of cars in that year then? We have to look at the preffered tool, right?

And then what after cars, knives?

Why would we need to look at the preffered toll today, but not in the future?

Now some other points.

Guns are neccessary tools for a lot of people. For hunting, for protection from violent people, and protection from tyrannical governments.

The same people that think the police are racists thugs and trump is an evil dictator seem to be the ones suggesting disarming everyone (not saying thats you) What sense does that make?

In addition, we have to look at the practicaality of getting rid of just guns. Ityb would be impossible. The only people that would have guns then would be the very people that would use them with ill intent? Do you think a person willing to break murder laws would follow a gun ban? And as we see, most mass shootings occur in areas where they know people wont be armed, so they would have the potential to increase.

In addition, we have to ask ourselves how big of a problem are gun deaths. Despite media hysteria, other than a few minor bumps, gun deaths and all violent crome has gone down every year for a long time now.

So I do not think that we should have an emotional respinse to ban guns, when it would sacrfice our freedom to use an effective tool for livelihhods in hunting, protection ffrom criminals, and from tyranical governments, get rid of one of our most foundatuional rights in the bill of rights, and would not only not be impossible to enforce, but would quite possibly lead to more innocnts dying as only criminals would have guns, partcularly when guns deaths are not as bad as the media sensationalizes them to be.

Having good intentions and being emotional is not a reaosn to abandon logic.

originally posted by: Involutionist
a reply to: Grambler

Guns aren't the problem: it's the easy access to attaining guns legally is the issue. Most of the guns used here in Canada for violent crimes dont come from Canada, despite the fact guns are legal here.

I'll give you TWO guesses where they come from...

America is collectively a sick and demented nation. If you dont believe me; travel the world for a bit; take it all in how other societies interact with each other in day to day life; then go back to America and take it all in....

I lived in Europe for 4 years, traveled all over it, spent time in the Middle east and SE asia. Every single problem we have I have found everywhere I have been to some degree.

America is collectively a sick and demented nation., the arrogance to proclaim 330 million people as sick and demented is quite staggering.

originally posted by: roadgravel
a reply to: AScrubWhoDied

You might not like Texas in the long run. Well, maybe the big city.

Hunting and gun ownership go back a long way here. Although you have firearms so I guess you are covered.

I love Texas. I grew up in Arkansas, and would frequently go hunting with my brother in law.

I've been around guns my entire life but that doesn't make me oblivious to how ridiculously easy it is to acquire a tool designed to kill.

a reply to: AScrubWhoDied

Why do you own firearms then?

edit:

Easy to get? Like someone giving you two firearms.

originally posted by: neo96
It really boggles the mind so many people are willing to let the state disarm them.

That's worked out so well all over the globe.

Well less people get shot per capita in the EU compared to the US.
We stab each other to death instead, and usually individuals not the mass shootings which have almost become boring to read from the US now.

originally posted by: Involutionist
a reply to: Grambler
America is collectively a sick and demented nation. If you dont believe me; travel the world for a bit; take it all in how other societies interact with each other in day to day life; then go back to America and take it all in....

Pick any fairly large country and they all have their instances. American is high on the list, but not highest.

www.investors.com...

So who's tops? Surprisingly, Norway is, with an outlier mass shooting death rate of 1.888 per million (high no doubt because of the rifle assault by political extremist Anders Brevik that claimed 77 lives in 2011). No. 2 is Serbia, at just 0.381, followed by France at 0.347, Macedonia at 0.337, and Albania at 0.206. Slovakia, Finland, Belgium, and Czech Republic all follow. Then comes the U.S., at No. 11, with a death rate of 0.089.

Damn crazy Norwegians!

originally posted by: Involutionist
a reply to: Grambler

Guns aren't the problem: it's the easy access to attaining guns legally is the issue. Most of the guns used here in Canada for violent crimes dont come from Canada, despite the fact guns are legal here.

I'll give you TWO guesses where they come from...

America is collectively a sick and demented nation. If you dont believe me; travel the world for a bit; take it all in how other societies interact with each other in day to day life; then go back to America and take it all in....

Yes the US is so terrible.

Thats why people from other nations clamor to be here.

Im not so petty as to knock your country as you have done to mine.

Suffice it to say that I treasure the bill of rights, and find your opinions on how greta the world is and how demented america is to be meaningless to me.