France's Macron pushes for 'true European army' to protect from Russia, US, China

a reply to: Freeborn

Agree. From a EU perspective, the loss of the UK and access to the UK's security apparatus is a retrograde step. It will be interesting what happens with the EU obsessed with referring to the UK as a soon-to-be insecure and untrustworthy "third country", because that's a two-edged sword as far as security goes.

While Macron chides the French for "nationalism" to France, he's busy creating a new problem called European nationalism, or rather EU nationalism, because the EU ain't Europe.

Anyway, while I agree the EU would not get into the deep hole of arranging terrorism in the UK, I can see that some of their activities regarding the tacit support for Irish unification via the Brexit blackmail could lead to a rise in Irish republicanism and unionism and potentially a slide in the direction of violence.

a reply to: paraphi

I've come to the conclusion that at this point a hard Brexit is best for the UK.
This is largely due to May's dithering and incompetence and the punitive approach taken by the EU.

My biggest concern about taking a hard Brexit is the potential problems it could cause in Ireland.
The last thing anyone wants to see is for a return to The Troubles.

But that is another thing entirely to the EU funding and organising terrorism in an effort to strongarm the UK into remaining in the EU and signing up for an EU Army.

NATO has proven its value in maintaining the relative peace in Europe since WWII.
France, Germany and other EU countries would be better off served meeting their commitments to NATO and increasing their defence spending to the agreed 2% of national GDP.

An EU Army could be used as a tool to threaten and intimidate weaker member states who may refuse to enforce some future EU dictates or wish to emulate the UK's exit from the EU.
A hypothetical scenario I know but one that's not entirely improbable given the dictatorial nature of the EU.

Plus not forgetting the selfish politics here.

An EU military would be a a single market for a consolidated defence industry that is controlled by France. Macron has lately suggested that the "Europeans" stop their reliance on US / foreign equipment, which can only mean one thing - buy from your fellow EU colleagues. Oh look, that's us.

France and Germany want Airbus to be the defence arm of the EU, akin to Boeing and LM in the states and a direct competitor to BAE, who they will be looking to kill off by depriving them of lucrative EU deals and collaborations. With friends like the French, who needs enemies, eh?

a reply to: paraphi

You make a very valid and pertinent point....and one I hadn't considered.
Not only would France and Germany control the EU Army, they would also gain all the profit associated with it.

Why wouldn't they want it.

As for 'having friends like France' - a brief study of the last thousand years of history will teach us that France has never been a 'friend' of the UK.

Now We are the enemy.

a reply to: Sillyolme

You an enemy? No you're too pink and queen like.

a reply to: Bluntone22

well the soldiers sent to the mexican border will be home in a day or two. Now that they failed their political goal. Oh they are not political? They are just political pawns.

a reply to: Sillyolme

Now We are the enemy.

You are the wayward prodigal son we are waiting to welcome back in to the family fold.

Those continentals might not quite see it that way though.

originally posted by: Sillyolme
a reply to: Bluntone22

well the soldiers sent to the mexican border will be home in a day or two. Now that they failed their political goal. Oh they are not political? They are just political pawns.

Some of them others are being sent different missions for them. Some were sent just to build a holding location there job is done. my cousin was actually one of these soldiers and he said they knew how long they would be there when they got their mission brief. Said also finished about a week early from original plans they were never meant to stay on the border why keep construction crews there if nothing needs to be built?

Macron can't even please his own Citizens, he's a total Cad and he's losing it.

a reply to: CriticalStinker


I agree. They should start by building an impregnable defensive line across their eastern border. It will keep them safe from all hostile invaders.

Then us over here can start doing some pushups in expectation that we'll be collecting their never-fired, once-dropped *pew* *pews* and taking care of the baddies.

I have a feeling that NATO is going to eventually be disbanded. It was just a shield for the U.S to hide behind during the cold war.
Europe can setup an army easily without America if everyone got along with each other and Merkel + May(sorry not sorry) were replaced.
If you focus defense entirely in one area it becomes more of a target.

a reply to: SpaghettiHero

I have a feeling that NATO is going to eventually be disbanded. It was just a shield for the U.S to hide behind during the cold war.

I hope not....I hope its the EU that breaks down into its constituent parts.
And I don't think the USA has actually his behind anything....in fact they've take the majority of the burden over the years....ita time fo the rest of NATO to pay their fair share.

Europe can setup an army easily without America if everyone got along with each other and Merkel + May(sorry not sorry) were replaced.

I wouldn't trust that shower of #e to run the proverbial piss up in a brewery.

How long do you think before any such debacle would break up into a series of petty arguments and perceived insults?

Its a ridiculous proposal and would be disastrous on so many levels.

originally posted by: SpaghettiHero
I have a feeling that NATO is going to eventually be disbanded. It was just a shield for the U.S to hide behind during the cold war.

1. NATO was formed for mutual defence and traces origins to a post WW2 agreement between the French and the British. It was nothing to do with the US hiding. In fact, had NATO not existed with the US then I expect the eastward expansion of the Soviet Union would have been unchecked. The Russians were not a bunch of peace-loving teddy bears.
2. NATO won't be disbanded because enough of its membership want it to remain. If the EU developed a coherent unified military they would doubtless want to remain close the the US. Although predicting the future is notoriously difficult.

a reply to: paraphi

Although predicting the future is notoriously difficult.

I've heard tea leaves have proven useful for this....or at lease as accurate as any other method.

a reply to: AugustusMasonicus

Haha, a French Wal that is unreachable.

Good. Lower my taxes. Europe take care of yourself.

There is a faIr degree of common sense in this.

The EU has about 4 times the population and about 10 times the GDP of russia yet as it stands at the moment, without US involvement, the Russian army wouldn't even need to stop for a smoke break until they reached the Fench border.

originally posted by: ScepticScot
There is a faIr degree of common sense in this.

The EU has about 4 times the population and about 10 times the GDP of russia yet as it stands at the moment, without US involvement, the Russian army wouldn't even need to stop for a smoke break until they reached the Fench border.

Russia controls many former USSR states behind the scenes so would have some of them to back it up and who knows what's China going to do? Russia and China storming into the EU, don't think France and Germany going to stand a chance really

originally posted by: ufoorbhunter

originally posted by: ScepticScot
There is a faIr degree of common sense in this.

The EU has about 4 times the population and about 10 times the GDP of russia yet as it stands at the moment, without US involvement, the Russian army wouldn't even need to stop for a smoke break until they reached the Fench border.

Russia controls many former USSR states behind the scenes so would have some of them to back it up and who knows what's China going to do? Russia and China storming into the EU, don't think France and Germany going to stand a chance really

China doesn't really have the capability or desire to threaten Europe (they would much rather sell us stuff).

Russia would be able to pick of European countries piecemeal which is the argument for greater defence cooperation as the US might not always be there as the big stick to deter them.