France's Macron pushes for 'true European army' to protect from Russia, US, China

Here's a little something that isn't US elections for all our other members.

Macron suggested a European army to defend their interests.

President Macron has already warned that Europeans can no longer rely on the US to defend them, and he revived the theme on Tuesday, in response to President Donald Trump's decision to pull out of a 1987 nuclear treaty with Russia, banning medium-range ground-launched missiles.

"We have to protect ourselves with respect to China, Russia and even the United States of America," he told French radio station Europe 1.

"Who is the main victim? Europe and its security. I want to build a real security dialogue with Russia, which is a country I respect, a European country - but we must have a Europe that can defend itself on its own without relying only on the United States."

bbc

In the interest of not making the OP too long, I left quite a bit out, so I encourage everyone to fully read the article if you can.

I tried not to misrepresent his point as he does reiterate that it's not so much they feel threatened, but more so they are too reliant on the US.

If you're going to do something of this nature, it would make sense to do so in a way that can handle any kind of threat, even if it's not currently a perceived one.

Im sure some Americans will chime in, but if like to get some European ATS member's feedback on how you feel about this proposition.

Macron sure wants to make a lot of enemies internationally.

Not sure if that's the best course of action after he pissed off his people by championing the cause of global, multinational corporations over the best interests of the masses.

Definitely a one-term President for France, and yet another in a long line of terrible leaders France has had to suffer.

I guess leaders of Charles De Gaule calibre come around only once a century.

a reply to: Ohanka

Would you want to be reliant on the US at a time where our military has been stretched across the globe?

If a global conflict were to spark, I'm sure we (the US) would look out for self interest first and foremost, then help where we can.

Is having contingency plans really a horrible idea?

a reply to: CriticalStinker

I would love to bring the us military home.
Let other countries carry the burden of defending their own territory.
If the Koreans can build millions of cars to send to America, they can buy or build equipment to protect their own borders.
Same for European countries.

a reply to: Bluntone22

That's kind of where I stand on this, win win for everyone.

I don't like the thought of obligation when we already have enough on our plate.

It's time we stop playing world police, but that only works if people don't depend on us as well.

a reply to: CriticalStinker

Start with the UN...
Turn that damn building in New York into a homeless shelter.

a reply to: CriticalStinker

The eu member states cant agree on the immigration/migrant question. I don't think its such a great idea to start doing something like the eu military that actually requires a complete agreement from everyone...

originally posted by: szino9
a reply to: CriticalStinker

The eu member states cant agree on the immigration/migrant question. Such a great idea to start doing something that actually requires a complete agreement from everyone...

Sometimes it's good to propose something everyone can agree on to break the ice for other things down the road.

I'm not saying this could be it, but at this point, what does trying hurt?

That said, it's in everyone's best interest they get their house in order, and we follow suit.

The west have all been overreaching for too long without focusing on their own housekeeping. Perhaps it's time everyone take a step back and do that so we can all be more effective internationally.

France, poo poo pee pee.............

originally posted by: Fools
France, poo poo pee pee.............

Thought provoking response.

Let me basque on that before getting back to you, a lot of nuance to think over.

a reply to: CriticalStinker

Maybe, but two things are straight against this idea...

1. the timing. The eu is in shambles pretty much, they need to straighten their differences out first...
2. its coming from Macron. The man is an imbecile...

a reply to: szino9

Again, I'm not saying this is going to work for them, but good point on the timing.

This is coming not too long after Merkel announced she will be stepping down from all capacities.

This may be his way of throwing his hat in the ring.

originally posted by: CriticalStinker
a reply to: Ohanka

Would you want to be reliant on the US at a time where our military has been stretched across the globe?

If a global conflict were to spark, I'm sure we (the US) would look out for self interest first and foremost, then help where we can.

Is having contingency plans really a horrible idea?

I would not want, and do not want my country dependent on the United States either.

However I would also not want to antagonise other great powers of the world, such as Russia and China.

a reply to: CriticalStinker

Good, its about time. There was a time, 70 or so years ago when the protection was needed and appreciated. That is no longer the case.

Since the majority of the countries in NATO fail to meet their financial obligations to protect themselves now, I don't imagine this idea will go very far.

Its nice to have the big stick of Uncle Sam's umbrella to live worry free under when you don't have to pay for it.

I don't imagine any EU state will vote to pass up that nice freebie anytime soon.

a reply to: CriticalStinker

We have been begging for multiple Presidential Administrations for Europe to up its military spending. Now they finally see the need for it?

I assume it will be a Franco-German Centric military......what could go wrong?

It's about time they pulled their fair share.

a reply to: CriticalStinker

Hmmmmm does anyone want the french army trying to protect them? Well, I guess they could stall an invasion by surrendering so the other side will have to stop to process prisoners. On a more serious note NATO already has this roll but apparently, he doesn't know this. Nato is run by the European countries because in order for NATO to take action all members have to come to a consensus. This is why the US has bases everywhere because to get European countries to agree on anything is difficult.

a reply to: CriticalStinker

Like I said the man is an imbecile. He throws in this idea like it has any merit. Lets see... With the UK gone next year will leave only France and Germany as major military power. Spain and Italy closely behind and maybe Poland with manpower. The rest of the member states has very little. All together would be still nothing compare to the Russians or China if there was a real conflict...

Also I dont see how NATO will come to this picture? Some countries will have to participate in both nato and the eu military? No clue...

a reply to: CriticalStinker

He is a strange character.

Some interesting information: Macron's first name is Emanuel and he has already spear headed a new 10 nation military coalition of European states (the 10 nations we read about in Revelation?).

He was featured on a past cover of The Economist magazine walking on water and being called Europe's messiah and now he has a middle east peace plan?

www.politico.eu...


www.theguardian.com...

originally posted by: CriticalStinker
a reply to: szino9

Again, I'm not saying this is going to work for them, but good point on the timing.

This is coming not too long after Merkel announced she will be stepping down from all capacities.

This may be his way of throwing his hat in the ring.

Remember Trump went over and told the NATO countries they were going to pay us more to protect them?

This may be part of that. Macron may be signalling that if they actually have to foot that bill, they may as well just pony up and have their own militaries again.

The EU army isn't about standing up to Russia. What will happen is, each member state's armed forces will be incorporated into the EU army and German troops will be in say, Spain, while Spanish will be in France, French in Italy etc.
This is to prevent a popular uprising in any one state against the EU.
Its a way of stripping a country's ability to leave the EU ever.