Jehovah’s Witnesses in Russia Framed

a reply to: Blue_Jay33

Additionally the reasoning you use in your post about the how the typical Russian feels about WW2 and the interaction between the non-supporting Bibelforscher, makes zero logical sense. The "ALLIES" liberated the concentration camps, some Americans and some Soviets. From there many were sent to Siberia even though they were the enemy of the Nazi state. Your entire perspective either from a lack of knowledge of history or total bias is just wrong.

I do appreciate your opinion but do not agree with your opinion. The Jehovah Witnesses of Germany became about 20,000 in 1933 and were under a ban since 1920. So to infer that it was due to the Earnest Bible Student [Bibleforscher] of the Third Reich is not true. You cite concentration camps of 1945 without realizing that well over seven million German citizens were also killed of which only about ten percent of the 20,000 Jehovah Witnesses were killed as a direct result of being a Bibleforscher.

It is interesting that you bring this up in defense of the ungrateful who would not contribute any effort whatsoever to the millions who died in their defense. Nor do you offer any excuse for the complete disregard for their lack of courage to defend their loved ones who perished under the very conditions of these who were Bibleforescher's.

The Russian government has not offered nor practiced the same. Out of twenty five of the worst countries in this world for Christianity or Jehovah Witnesses, Russia is not one of them. Your understanding of this is not based upon the world but is based upon the United States and its insane unlawfulness. This constitution has almost been destroyed by political correctness and insane lawyers and courts and this has come about because of thousands of splinter groups of political correctness.

Each country of this world has the same rights to govern themselves and in almost every instance of insurrection is the fact that insurrection comes from those who are willing to thwart the laws of their nation. Here are some of the nations t6hat are in violation of human rights. Google these and then realize what I am saying.

North Korea - Iraq - Syria - Afghanistan - Sudan - Iran - Pakistan - Eritrea - Nigeria - Maldives - Saudi Arabia - Libya - Yemen - Uzbekistan - Vietnam - Central Africa Republic - Qatar - Kenya - Turkmenistan - India - Ethiopia - Egypt - Djibouti - Burma

After you get done with that list there are more to be considered. What is the solution to Russia? Firstly the laws must be obeyed to have uniformity of order. Secondly is the fact that if one should want the laws changed then change those laws by law and not by unlawful acts. This country is one of the most unlawful to exist with foul languages disrespect and destruction of others property. I see no comparison in Germany and Russia.

a reply to: Seede

Each country of this world has the same rights to govern themselves and in almost every instance of insurrection is the fact that insurrection comes from those who are willing to thwart the laws of their nation.

How did that reasoning work out at the Nuremberg trials ? But I was just following orders/the law of the land.

The people that followed this directive were never put on trail but released from prison instead.
Acts 5:29

But Peter and the apostles replied, "We must obey God rather than any human authority.

Also there is a huge difference in actively protesting a government in the streets and rioting, verses quietly sitting at home and not joining the war effort.
I think your definition of insurrection is getting messed up in google translation, your not using it in the correct context.


Your perspective lacks an appreciation for the value of the conscious objectors who based on scripture won't kill their brethren of another country.The Bible Students were not the only ones either, although they as a collective group are the most well known that refused.
Had more Germans and Soviets felt that way WW2 would have lacked the soldiers to even start, the Soviets are complicit in invading Poland after the Nazi's started it or did you forget that too.
Russia/Stalin slaughtered millions as well, and some of these weren't even soldiers. Russia is not historically innocent of protecting it's very own citizens.

a reply to: Blue_Jay33

Text Also there is a huge difference in actively protesting a government in the streets and rioting, verses quietly sitting at home and not joining the war effort. I think your definition of insurrection is getting messed up in google translation, your not using it in the correct context.

Tell me if you will. In this discussion of Jehovah Witnesses why it is of their belief that this Jesus was the first of the heavenly host created and his name the Archangel Michael. This created Archangel Michael is this Jesus, who the Jehovah Witnesses teach was passive in this life.

How then teaching that defense of life is against the edicts of Jehovah was this same Michael engaged in warfare in the book of Danial 10:13-21 and again in Revelation 12:7 ?

This same Michael [Jesus] told His people to sell their goods and buy a sword [Luke22:36] Here I see that this Jesus [Michael], not only taught people to purchase a sword but has also fought with a sword. And yet now some such as the Jehovah Witnesses are teaching that Jesus [Michael] has never taught what He has done Himself. Are the scriptures a lie?

a reply to: Seede

First off Micheal is tasked with fighting/judging and executing when assigned to do so by God as a spirit Archangel not a human, this has nothing to do with human neutrality again your logic is way, way off.

Secondly the still very human Jesus asked them to bring swords because he planned in advance to teach an object lesson, he knew exactly what was coming. Nothing in the entire history of the world had more of a point of justified violence than to stop the arrest of Jesus Christ, which would lead to his wrongful death. Yet Jesus said stand down, here is the account.
Matthew 26

The men grabbed Jesus and arrested him.
51 One of Jesus' followers pulled out a sword. He struck the servant of the high priest and cut off his ear.
52 But Jesus told him, “Put your sword away. Anyone who lives by fighting will die by fighting.
53 Don't you know that I could ask my Father, and he would at once send me more than twelve armies of angels?

The point was clear the time for those who serve God to fight was over, killing other people even in defensive wars should not be done anymore.
This is why Christendom failed their test with all their Crusades through the centuries.

It is no longer the job of 21st century followers of Christ to fight, Micheal and his legions of angels will get it done when God asks them to in the coming fight that revelation speaks of, true Christians are only to observe, not take part in it in any way. Certainly not from their own little insurrections as you mentioned in previous posts. If that is truly a fear of people and governments, it is 100% unfounded on any true realities, but propaganda created by nationalists, that favor patriotism over any independent individuality with religious freedom of conscience that transcend geographic borders.

a reply to: Blue_Jay33

First off Micheal is tasked with fighting/judging and executing when assigned to do so by God as a spirit Archangel not a human, this has nothing to do with human neutrality again your logic is way, way off. Secondly the still very human Jesus asked them to bring swords because he planned in advance to teach an object lesson, he knew exactly what was coming. Nothing in the entire history of the world had more of a point of justified violence than to stop the arrest of Jesus Christ, which would lead to his wrongful death. Yet Jesus said stand down, here is the account.

I see where your understanding is causing your blindness in understanding the Greek MSS. As far as we have discussed you have shown the Russellite understanding of the TR MSS. I cannot agree with your mindset and have changed course in discussion in trying to make sense of the confusion you have come to accept of the TR MSS. I truly hope that you will associate with more learned scholars and learn why you are very confused. The NT TR Greek manuscripts are not in agreement with what you have shown in this thread.
My opinions of course