Migrants in caravan sue Trump and his administration

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: BoneSay

My dad was an American citizen, born and raised there, i am not, but i could ask for it, i did not.

It would seem that if your father was an American citizen, you would be an American citizen. No need to ask.

If you were born to parents, at least one of whom was a U.S. citizen at the time of your birth, you'll automatically gain U.S. citizenship through the process of acquisition in many cases. It doesn't matter whether you were born on U.S. or foreign soil. And if you have children, they'll also acquire U.S. citizenship through you at birth. Additionally, foreign-born adoptees to U.S. citizens also may claim U.S. citizenship.

immigration.findlaw.com...

But let's go with this, are you ok with allowing people like that to go into your country *just because law says they can?"

The law says that they can request asylum. The law does not say that they must be granted asylum.

Did you see the videos i posted?

Yes. That is not the same group of people.

I was born and raised in Russia, not on American land at all. My mom is Russian and i don't have an American name or whatever. In my entire life i have been only one year and a half in the US


This

If you were born to parents, at least one of whom was a U.S. citizen at the time of your birth, you'll automatically gain U.S. citizenship through the process of acquisition in many cases

I already know, i won't go through that "process of acquisition", i know i can, but i won't. As far i know it is for people below 18 years old, i am 17 and will be 18 on December 25, but i don't plan to do anything about it, you may think i'm dumb about it but i don't really care.

I do care a lot about my friends and family even if they don't feel the same. And i do hurt about the US people and how they are becoming and how the acts of their government are causing them so much pain. But i will not become a US citizen, it's my choice


The "law" should not even include that or at least have better ways to handle it. Like:

- First, request asylum
- Asylum given
- Sue the government that gave you asylum because you hate it but you want them to give you a better life, but you hate them anyway you just want the good life and money and stuff
- Lawsuit rejected
- Try to take down the army with stones and Molotov bombs

LMFAO

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: musicismagic

Don't know what is going on in America, but I do believe that America is being changed ethnic wise and whites will be a minority.

OMG.
That would be terrible.

I grew up in California. I am white male... I am the minority and have been my whole life. I was denied an application to UC Davis because they were only taking minorities into the Veterinarian program right then.But I am supposed to say "Ok, anything I can do to help the minorities (which are the majority there)".
This leads to quota systems, you are hired because you fit the demographics of that area (and yes many companies hire this way). Thus a very skilled person is looked over because they need to keep the employees in a race balance. Doesn't matter that I have far more experience and skills in that area. They don't have enough LGBTQ transgender latinos, ( just an example). Thus, too bad skilled educated white dude you are SOL.
It is horrible... I can't claim minority status. I can't get first in line University admission (because I am white). I get yelled at for being a racist, for no reason that I can ever fathom. I am supposed to smile and say "Thank you" When a black woman calls me a cracker. If I speak up I am labeled a racists.

Cali has had these problems for decades. And yet I am the powerful majority? I hope the places in America that do not have these issues can keep it that way.

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: BoneSay

My dad was an American citizen, born and raised there, i am not, but i could ask for it, i did not.

It would seem that if your father was an American citizen, you would be an American citizen. No need to ask.

If you were born to parents, at least one of whom was a U.S. citizen at the time of your birth, you'll automatically gain U.S. citizenship through the process of acquisition in many cases. It doesn't matter whether you were born on U.S. or foreign soil. And if you have children, they'll also acquire U.S. citizenship through you at birth. Additionally, foreign-born adoptees to U.S. citizens also may claim U.S. citizenship.

immigration.findlaw.com...

But let's go with this, are you ok with allowing people like that to go into your country *just because law says they can?"

The law says that they can request asylum. The law does not say that they must be granted asylum.

Did you see the videos i posted?

Yes. That is not the same group of people.

Ohh you know what should be better?

Instead of sending 15,000 troops to the border, maybe they could send 100 people out there to those country to fix the problem they have, like go and say "hey guys we know past politicians in our country messed you all up but we have come here to fix things up, let's work on a solution and we'll all be good from now on"

How about that? Don't you think that would be nice

And then they can say "ok no need for any immigrants knocking on US door, let's build some factories and stuff here and we'll move America forward all together and thanks for the help we very much needed, no hard feelings from now on"

But nooooope

Just to recap:
The fifth Amendment to the US Constitution says;

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation

So a few basic things here to look at;
public danger. Without proper health screening these individuals coming into the country illegally may/may not have diseases and/or health issues that can be a danger to the public at large.

But in this case the claim that is being stated is that these peoples rights are being violated specifically; From the article already linked:

The migrants' attorney, John Shoreman, argues that some of Trump's policy proposals violate the due process clause of the Fifth Amendment, which holds that "no person shall ... be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law."

In this case the term "without due process" is null and voided since the act of legal citizen ship (which means going through the process of gaining a US Citizenship through legal means) is in fact part of the "due process". So the claims of these lawyers looks to be nothing more then just grand standing in an attempt to drag out any of these individuals may have hoped for in becoming US citizens.

originally posted by: Guyfriday
Just to recap:
The fifth Amendment to the US Constitution says;

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation

So a few basic things here to look at;
public danger. Without proper health screening these individuals coming into the country illegally may/may not have diseases and/or health issues that can be a danger to the public at large.

But in this case the claim that is being stated is that these peoples rights are being violated specifically; From the article already linked:

The migrants' attorney, John Shoreman, argues that some of Trump's policy proposals violate the due process clause of the Fifth Amendment, which holds that "no person shall ... be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law."

In this case the term "without due process" is null and voided since the act of legal citizen ship (which means going through the process of gaining a US Citizenship through legal means) is in fact part of the "due process". So the claims of these lawyers looks to be nothing more then just grand standing in an attempt to drag out any of these individuals may have hoped for in becoming US citizens.

Just one question, as they are still in Mexico's ground, how the US laws apply to them? I don't know much about laws to be honest, but i would think that they are like half way through Mexico so far, so they have a way ahead and would not the Mexican laws apply instead?

originally posted by: BoneSay

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: BoneSay

I diiiiiiiiiiiiiiiid, has nothing to do with the current issues in South America, but by the way

You asked how the lawsuits are being executed. They have been filed in District Federal Court in Washington. Let me help:

The class-action civil suit, filed Thursday in U.S. District Court in Washington, D.C., claims Trump “continues to abuse the law, including constitutional rights, to deter Central Americans from exercising their lawful right to seek asylum in the United States.”

www.cnbc.com...

LMFAO

Do you realize what you are saying? Let me explain more, in another dumb point by point list

1. My family has business here in Mexico
2. I have come here on vacation since 10 years ago, when i was 7
3. My dad was an American citizen
4. We still have business here and i am currently on college in Mexico
5. I asked for a work visa, which was denied and i was told i will have to wait 4 years until my student visa expires and i graduate then i can apply and "maybe" get a work visa, if i can show i will have enough money to start a business on this country
6. Those guys go to the Mexican border just trying to reach the US
7. They break the fence and place kids on the front so they get crushed and the border patrol has no means other than open the fence to save the kids
8. Fight goes on, some guy dies and others are taken to hospital. Cops are blamed for defending their own country. Chopper gets assaulted (did you see my link to those videos? or nah?)
9. Mexican government tells thse people "It's ok we can host you here, we are going to give you temporary work visas so you can live here, send your kids to school, have free social security, can buy cars and houses and do a good living"
10. 1500 or so people take the offer, but about 4000 so far reject it and go back to living on the dirt and having to die or pay for the maras and other gangs (somehow this makes sense)
11. The rest of those people, the ones who did not like Mexico's offer or tried to get back, insist and complain and demand that they must have free pass through the country so they can reach the US, then once denied free busses they attempt to take down a Mexican army chopper, which i posted a couple videos about it on that link

Now tell me your story, how people with Molotov bombs trying to take down a military chopper are people you want as a neighbor?

Maybe you should go down here and see for your self, and not "read all about it"

And yes i'm angry that after all my family invested and all the good effort made i will have to basically waste 10 years of my life to get residence but those guys are already receiving work visas and even more things that are pretty much giving them nationality on this country. I went and asked again and nope, apparently it is easier for me to go to Guatemala and break in through the Mexican border fence and then i do get to have a work visa, than to request it through other means.

LMFAO!

My experience in life with a foreign spouse was this: before entry a health examination and had to be submitted to the US embassy in Tokyo. Now this was some 40 years ago. But that was the law. Did the law change since then?

originally posted by: Guyfriday
Just to recap:
The fifth Amendment to the US Constitution says;

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation

So a few basic things here to look at;
public danger. Without proper health screening these individuals coming into the country illegally may/may not have diseases and/or health issues that can be a danger to the public at large.

But in this case the claim that is being stated is that these peoples rights are being violated specifically; From the article already linked:

The migrants' attorney, John Shoreman, argues that some of Trump's policy proposals violate the due process clause of the Fifth Amendment, which holds that "no person shall ... be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law."

In this case the term "without due process" is null and voided since the act of legal citizen ship (which means going through the process of gaining a US Citizenship through legal means) is in fact part of the "due process". So the claims of these lawyers looks to be nothing more then just grand standing in an attempt to drag out any of these individuals may have hoped for in becoming US citizens.

yes, that is true
a clean bill of health is required to enter America when one wishes to marry a person from another country
many people don't understand this, also they must not have a police record in their country, in this case, money may talk when you have political connections, 2 systems here on that matter.

a reply to: BoneSay

My idea would be simple, hire these people to guard the border. Tell them anyone that crosses gets their job and they have to return to their country. I could guarantee no one would cross. Now on a serious note, the problem I have with this filling is it costs money just to fight a stupid court filling. It is obviously just a publicity stunt trying to put those woman and children front and centre in an attempt to undermine what little border security there is.

a reply to: musicismagic

No my wife required a physical when she applied as well so i don't think it changed, But that was just one of many requirements including showing she could support herself.

a reply to: Guyfriday

So the claims of these lawyers looks to be nothing more then just grand standing in an attempt to drag out any of these individuals may have hoped for in becoming US citizens.

They want to be able to apply for asylum. The claim is that the actions of the administration are depriving them of their right to do so.

As I said, I doubt the claim will go very far.

a reply to: musicismagic

www.cdc.gov...

originally posted by: musicismagic

originally posted by: BoneSay

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: BoneSay

I diiiiiiiiiiiiiiiid, has nothing to do with the current issues in South America, but by the way

You asked how the lawsuits are being executed. They have been filed in District Federal Court in Washington. Let me help:

The class-action civil suit, filed Thursday in U.S. District Court in Washington, D.C., claims Trump “continues to abuse the law, including constitutional rights, to deter Central Americans from exercising their lawful right to seek asylum in the United States.”

www.cnbc.com...

LMFAO

Do you realize what you are saying? Let me explain more, in another dumb point by point list

1. My family has business here in Mexico
2. I have come here on vacation since 10 years ago, when i was 7
3. My dad was an American citizen
4. We still have business here and i am currently on college in Mexico
5. I asked for a work visa, which was denied and i was told i will have to wait 4 years until my student visa expires and i graduate then i can apply and "maybe" get a work visa, if i can show i will have enough money to start a business on this country
6. Those guys go to the Mexican border just trying to reach the US
7. They break the fence and place kids on the front so they get crushed and the border patrol has no means other than open the fence to save the kids
8. Fight goes on, some guy dies and others are taken to hospital. Cops are blamed for defending their own country. Chopper gets assaulted (did you see my link to those videos? or nah?)
9. Mexican government tells thse people "It's ok we can host you here, we are going to give you temporary work visas so you can live here, send your kids to school, have free social security, can buy cars and houses and do a good living"
10. 1500 or so people take the offer, but about 4000 so far reject it and go back to living on the dirt and having to die or pay for the maras and other gangs (somehow this makes sense)
11. The rest of those people, the ones who did not like Mexico's offer or tried to get back, insist and complain and demand that they must have free pass through the country so they can reach the US, then once denied free busses they attempt to take down a Mexican army chopper, which i posted a couple videos about it on that link

Now tell me your story, how people with Molotov bombs trying to take down a military chopper are people you want as a neighbor?

Maybe you should go down here and see for your self, and not "read all about it"

And yes i'm angry that after all my family invested and all the good effort made i will have to basically waste 10 years of my life to get residence but those guys are already receiving work visas and even more things that are pretty much giving them nationality on this country. I went and asked again and nope, apparently it is easier for me to go to Guatemala and break in through the Mexican border fence and then i do get to have a work visa, than to request it through other means.

LMFAO!

My experience in life with a foreign spouse was this: before entry a health examination and had to be submitted to the US embassy in Tokyo. Now this was some 40 years ago. But that was the law. Did the law change since then?

I don't know, i'm no Mexican citizen as well, i just live here under a student visa, being very honest but i can see things most people here ignore and i feel like i have a better understanding on how things are really happening

Also, have you see how they tried to take down a Mexican helicopter, those are the same people suing the US. I don't get how this is not related to this thread, but oh well

originally posted by: dragonridr
a reply to: BoneSay

My idea would be simple, hire these people to guard the border. Tell them anyone that crosses gets their job and they have to return to their country. I could guarantee no one would cross. Now on a serious note, the problem I have with this filling is it costs money just to fight a stupid court filling. It is obviously just a publicity stunt trying to put those woman and children front and centre in an attempt to undermine what little border security there is.

Hire these people?

a reply to: BoneSay

Also, have you see how they tried to take down a Mexican helicopter,

By throwing rocks at it?

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: BoneSay

Also, have you see how they tried to take down a Mexican helicopter,

By throwing rocks at it?

Oh please, are you really going for that? And i thought you were smart Phage

Attitude says it all, you think they are going to become nice people once they go across? Think fast think smart!

Most of the don't have criminal record, who's checking into that? Think!

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: BoneSay

Also, have you see how they tried to take down a Mexican helicopter,

By throwing rocks at it?

yeah, I just watched it they scare the hell out of the pilot. He decides instead of hovering near them he better move back quickly. A couple of shots came very close i was surprised the pilot was that stupid.

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: musicismagic

www.cdc.gov...

thanks
so it hasn't changed in the last some 40 years

originally posted by: dragonridr

originally posted by: Phage
a reply to: BoneSay

Also, have you see how they tried to take down a Mexican helicopter,

By throwing rocks at it?

yeah, I just watched it they scare the hell out of the pilot. He decides instead of hovering near them he better move back quickly. A couple of shots came very close i was surprised the pilot was that stupid.

They have a very direct order to not do anything at all, hands tied

You know very well that otherwise that ridiculous thing would not last for more than 10 minutes

Respecting human rights come at a cost, if that guy with the Molotov bomb had reached the helicopter maybe it would have gone down, then we would be talking about a different story

Just wondering, this happened a while ago in this same country, they got shots fired at them and then they just took them out, i have heard about cops killing kids in the US because of toy guns lmao, talk about ridiculous things. You can kill a kid on the US because he has a fake gun but you have to protect some asshole who is obviously trying to take you down and he is not even legally able to come around you?


Have you seen this video before? This Mexican army taking down a drug lord, they took shots at the chopper, they got it back as they deserved. Be the source of violence, then what?

originally posted by: BoneSay

originally posted by: dragonridr
Ok, this is going too far we have non-citizens claiming they have the right to enter the US and suing to preserve those rights. Not only is this costing US taxpayers to have to defend against this but it assumes you no longer have the right to decide whos allowed in your country! This sets up a situation where anyone in any country can demand to be allowed to enter the country. So we have a Somalian who wants to leave their country they have a legal right to enter the US imagine the flood of immigrants this would start we will easily have tens of millions here by the end of the week.

Honduran migrants traveling in a caravan to seek asylum at the U.S.-Mexico border are suing President Donald Trump, Attorney General Jeff Sessions and other key figures, arguing the administration's stance is "shockingly unconstitutional."

www.cnbc.com...

The Fifth Amendment states that, "no person… shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law." A recent PBS report cited former Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia, who ruled in 1993 case that "it is well established that the Fifth Amendment entitles aliens to due process of law in a deportation proceeding."

www.foxnews.com...


I think we need to sue these lawyers because they wont let me in their house. They are infringing my rights by locking their front doors!!!!!!!!

Yes they are very very wrong in their ways, but do you realize that the US has invented reasons to invade other countries just like this? And they go in and do whatever they want and nothing can't stop them, and then those same persons or their children/grand children go back and ask for retribution?

The current immigration farse, coming from Honduras, go look what the US did down there in the past 20/30 years, then look into what happened on "The Salvador", they are coming to your country to do the same, except they don't have planes, nice guns or tanks

All the same, i don't feel they are right and if you look into other posts i have made about this i reject very much what they are doing, but i will also reject trying to pretend no one is to blame and it just came out of nowhere

I'm sorry you are having to deal with this, i have American family, i am half American so to speak and it hurts me badly to think people are trying to harm my fathers country because these guys act like animals, but it is what it is.

If you treat people so bad they start acting as hurt animals, why do you wonder when they bite back?

Hahahahahahahahaha
Then why the HADES are they coming to the US ?
Hahahahahahahahahaha

originally posted by: Gothmog

originally posted by: BoneSay

originally posted by: dragonridr
Ok, this is going too far we have non-citizens claiming they have the right to enter the US and suing to preserve those rights. Not only is this costing US taxpayers to have to defend against this but it assumes you no longer have the right to decide whos allowed in your country! This sets up a situation where anyone in any country can demand to be allowed to enter the country. So we have a Somalian who wants to leave their country they have a legal right to enter the US imagine the flood of immigrants this would start we will easily have tens of millions here by the end of the week.

Honduran migrants traveling in a caravan to seek asylum at the U.S.-Mexico border are suing President Donald Trump, Attorney General Jeff Sessions and other key figures, arguing the administration's stance is "shockingly unconstitutional."

www.cnbc.com...

The Fifth Amendment states that, "no person… shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law." A recent PBS report cited former Supreme Court Justice Antonin Scalia, who ruled in 1993 case that "it is well established that the Fifth Amendment entitles aliens to due process of law in a deportation proceeding."

www.foxnews.com...


I think we need to sue these lawyers because they wont let me in their house. They are infringing my rights by locking their front doors!!!!!!!!

Yes they are very very wrong in their ways, but do you realize that the US has invented reasons to invade other countries just like this? And they go in and do whatever they want and nothing can't stop them, and then those same persons or their children/grand children go back and ask for retribution?

The current immigration farse, coming from Honduras, go look what the US did down there in the past 20/30 years, then look into what happened on "The Salvador", they are coming to your country to do the same, except they don't have planes, nice guns or tanks

All the same, i don't feel they are right and if you look into other posts i have made about this i reject very much what they are doing, but i will also reject trying to pretend no one is to blame and it just came out of nowhere

I'm sorry you are having to deal with this, i have American family, i am half American so to speak and it hurts me badly to think people are trying to harm my fathers country because these guys act like animals, but it is what it is.

If you treat people so bad they start acting as hurt animals, why do you wonder when they bite back?

Hahahahahahahahaha
Then why the HADES are they coming to the US ?
Hahahahahahahahahaha

They hate the US, they are going there for retribution, i have seen it personally, i happen to be not Mexican and when they see me out there they assume i am an "American" living on Mexico and they are very very rude, where are you living right now? I can tell you those still trying to get through are not who news guys tell all about. The nice people who were trying for a better life chose already

- Stay in Mexico, get work visas and eventually become Mexicans and forget about violence in their own country
- Or. Go back to their own country, like 4000 people already requested it

Those remaining, don't want anything but to reach the US, they go alone and they don't care about favors or anything else. Think about it